Members Phait Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090313/us_time/08599188495600 Could marijuana be the answer to the economic misery facing California? Democratic State Assembly member Tom Ammiano thinks so. Ammiano introduced legislation last month that would legalize pot and allow the state to regulate and tax its sale - a move that could mean billions for the cash-strapped state. Pot is, after all, California's biggest cash crop, responsible for $14 billion in annual sales, dwarfing the state's second largest agricultural commodity - milk and cream - which brings in $7.3 billion annually, according to the most recent USDA statistics. The state's tax collectors estimate the bill would bring in about $1.3 billion in much-needed revenue a year, offsetting some of the billions in service cuts and spending reductions outlined in the recently approved state budget. --- If passed, the Marijuana Control, Regulation and Education Act (AB 390) would give California control of pot in a manner similar to alcohol, while prohibiting its purchase to citizens under age 21. (The bill has been referred to the California State Assembly's Public Safety and Health Committees; Ammiano says it could take up to a year before it comes to a vote for passage.) State revenues would be derived from a $50 per ounce levy on retail sales of marijuana and sales taxes. By adopting the law, California could become a model for other states. As Ammiano put it: "How California goes, the country goes." --- Despite the projected and much-needed revenue, opponents say legalizing pot will only add to social woes. "The last thing we need is yet another mind-altering substance to be legalized," says John Lovell, lobbyist for the California Peace Officers' Association. "We have enough problems with alcohol and abuse of pharmaceutical products: do we really need to add yet another mind-altering substance to the array?" Lovell says the easy availability of the drug will lead to a surge in its use, much like what happened when alcohol was allowed to be sold in venues other than liquor stores in some states. I agree, alcohol is enough. I have gotten high once before, and I didn't like it. It was as if I was drunk with a memory limit of 2 minutes at a time (not exaggerating), couldn't turn my head or standup without feeling super unstable. I'm not against pot as it is, but I just can't agree with it being legalised - I simply foresee more problems (look at alcohol). If this was legalised, I just see more robberies, potheads on the road and more accidents, and pothead mothers pinching out messed up babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 If this was legalised, I just see more robberies, potheads on the road and more accidents, and pothead mothers pinching out messed up babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phait Posted March 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm not against it, I'm just not for the legalization of it because my opinion is simply, I imagine there would be more outward consequences. a.) Yes, people who smoke pot are pretty laid back and not too likely to be criminal or violent, but - my thinking comes from this: you get people who are already criminal, or violent... they go and buy legal pot. What happens? Sure, they're relaxed. Ok they need more - why wouldn't a criminal rob a store for pot? Not all drunks but certainly enough I'm sure have robbed for liquor. b.) Cigarettes are legal, and sometimes you get the mothers who smoke during pregnancy - it's inconsiderate and dumb, yes. But wouldn't that be worse with pot, just as drinking during pregnancy is? c.) We can't legally drink and drive, so I would gather that if pot were legalised, one couldn't legally smoke and drive. But just as drunks don't care, certainly any amount of people who smoke pot wouldn't care. What do you get with this? Simple: drunk driving accidents are more than enough, you could (not saying absolutely would) have driving-high accidents. I think I'm being rational about this. I understand why others may think I'm wrong, I just had this discussion with a friend who disagrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 In many parts of the urban areas of California its easier to get pot than fresh vegetables. I don't think legalization will significantly increase usage, except for perhaps the first couple of years. The people of Holland are not big users despite easy availability. Most pot users cause no harm to others. Legalization will be a disincentive to sell it to kids. The most important reason to legalize it is end the ruining of lives and waste of tax dollars caused by imprisonment caused by pot prohibition. Legalization would also help cool down the violent drug war happening in Mexico right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 Phait you are confusing the effects of prohibition with the actual effects of the drug. "why wouldn't a criminal rob a store for pot? Not all drunks but certainly enough I'm sure have robbed for liquor." They wouldn't rob a store for the same reson people don't rob to get cigarerettes or alcohol-it will be cheap enough that robbing will not be necessary. "Cigarettes are legal, and sometimes you get the mothers who smoke during pregnancy - it's inconsiderate and dumb, yes. But wouldn't that be worse with pot, just as drinking during pregnancy is?" Pot is not neary as addictive as cigarettes. I know of many mothers who stopped using while pregnant. Also it is not as dangerous to the foetus. Also see my remarks about the easy availability that already exists. "We can't legally drink and drive, so I would gather that if pot were legalised, one couldn't legally smoke and drive. But just as drunks don't care, certainly any amount of people who smoke pot wouldn't care. What do you get with this? Simple: drunk driving accidents are more than enough, you could (not saying absolutely would) have driving-high accidents." Again, its already easilly available, so there would not be much change in the number of stoned drivers. Driving while intoxicated would remain a crime. Also, pot does not impair drivers as much as alcohol does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brokepick Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 , I just see more robberies, potheads on the road and more accidents, and pothead mothers pinching out messed up babies. Yeah! Look how prohibition cleaned up the country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 Drug and alcohol abuse has taken my friends and family members -- and not just one or two. I'm a recovering alcoholic, myself. I spent twenty or so years drinking with fervor and abandon, and have the trail of broken relationships and strained friendships that go along with that lifestyle choice. (Last drink in early '94.) So... why am I not in favor of the prohibition of alcohol or the continuing "war on drugs"? Because prohibition doesn't work. It's imposed on us not so much by short-sighted moralist do-gooders but by the vested interests who derive their money from the various aspects of drug prohibition, whether it's increased traffic in legal drugs or from the high profits fostered by that very illegality. The war on drugs as it is currently waged is a con job and we as a society will be far better off when we confront the root problems that push people to drug and alchohol abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry_L Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have gotten high once before, and I didn't like it. It was as if I was drunk with a memory limit of 2 minutes at a time (not exaggerating), couldn't turn my head or standup without feeling super unstable. Lightweight! (That must have been some strong stuff. Can you get any more?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KsE fan Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 If it's legalized there will be different companies that make it, like cigarettes. Different brands of pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryst Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I don't do drugs but I think all drugs should be legalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimbroni Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 pot is less harmful and less addictive than cigarettes and alcohol, so from that standpoint I don't see why its illegal. OTOH, there is IMO one valid argument against legalizing it. AFAIK, there is no way to test whether you are under the influence while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 Pot can definitely be a "thinking man's drug" in a way that alcohol really can't. Pot, if not overused, has a way of opening all these little doors in your mind, encouraging you to look at your life, and your problems, in a fresh healing light. I've always marvelled at those who can smoke pot as just a sort of vacuous, uneventful kick-back. With me it always opens up vistas of possibilities and considerations and intuitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry_L Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 OTOH, there is IMO one valid argument against legalizing it. AFAIK, there is no way to test whether you are under the influence while driving. Who cares, as long as you're driving safely? Pot doesn't affect your motor skills like alcohol, as studies have shown. University Of Toronto Study Shows Marijuana Not A Factor In Driving Accidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 prohibition doesn't work. It works - to make drug lords, politicians and ganstas rich... Look with alcohol prohibition did for Al Capone, Joe Kennedy, etc. I don't think this is going to pass, but IMO, it's time we, as a society, seriously re-assess the war on drugs, and try approaching it from a different direction. The current status quo obviously isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 [YOUTUBE]1rKIDLuJr0A[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phait Posted March 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 Who cares, as long as you're driving safely? Pot doesn't affect your motor skills like alcohol, as studies have shown.University Of Toronto Study Shows Marijuana Not A Factor In Driving Accidents Yeah right, I couldn't even walk when I was high, once I stood up I had to sit down. I can't imagine driving like that. {censored} that. Also reaction times are much slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I don't think this is going to pass, but IMO, it's time we, as a society, seriously re-assess the war on drugs, and try approaching it from a different direction. The current status quo obviously isn't working. It normally wouldn't pass. But I actually find it likely that it WILL this time, for all the wrong reasons. They cannot afford to bypass the revenue at this point. Our state is one of the world's largest economies, and we're going broke. The money they can make on weed taxation will outweigh the moral dilemma of legalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 Yeah right, I couldn't even walk when I was high, once I stood up I had to sit down. I can't imagine driving like that. {censored} that. Also reaction times are much slower. No. You don't have any frame of reference and you are making all these assumptions. Weed is winning gold medals, so take these studies with a grain of salt. And everyday users are far less intoxicated than 30% of the population who is on psychotropic medication. (and most are not even affected if they are daily users, and it could be easily argued that coffee would an equal harm, if we would go these bizarre lengths when demonizing natural substances) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry_L Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 Yeah right, I couldn't even walk when I was high, once I stood up I had to sit down. I can't imagine driving like that. {censored} that. Also reaction times are much slower. So not only are you a lightweight, but you also have no understanding of research and/or didn't even bother to read the article I posted. Is that coffee you're drinking? Hope it's decaf, or you'll be up for days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 It normally wouldn't pass. But I actually find it likely that it WILL this time, for all the wrong reasons. They cannot afford to bypass the revenue at this point. Our state is one of the world's largest economies, and we're going broke. The money they can make on weed taxation will outweigh the moral dilemma of legalization. That, coupled with a POTUS who actually inhaled and who seems to be less interested in directing the Federal LEA's under his command to pursue / prosecute medical marijuana clinics and users in states that have passed M.M laws would seem to suggest that it does indeed have a better chance of passage at this point than at any other previous time. I know you know this Jeff, but I'll just throw it out as a general comment - even if it passes at the state level, the Federal laws would still be in place, and could still be enforced... I still don't think it will pass, only that it has a better chance of passing now than it did under other circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I should have just let Jerry post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I don't do drugs but I think all drugs should be legalized. May I ask why you feel that ALL drugs should be legalized? Please note that I am not trying to start a debate about your position, just that I want to know more about where you're coming from. Thanks. I generally agree most people's opinions on this so far except, sorry to say, Phait's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phait Posted March 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 No need to be sorry, since my return everyone hates me anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 13, 2009 Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I just didn't want you to think I was being mean. I like your posts. I only wish you and your talented, beautiful girlfriend, Ms. Pinto, the very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phait Posted March 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2009 I don't mind that we disagree, just part of being human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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