The OFFICIAL good traders list II

[Gegg&H]

I am one of the people that have been involved with the epic thread:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2296234&page=37

I have been asked to document my experience here to legitimize the issue.

I can go into great detail and have all my correspondances with IS to prove the accuracy of my statement.

I had posted several guitars FS/FT back in february on here and MLP:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2254219

I was contacted by IS with an offer on my Ibanez to trade for an epiphone Ace Frehley LP that he had.

Long story short I agreed to do the trade, but IS asked for a few changes. I had posted that I would set up the guitar prior to shipping it out, but the guitar did not have a case. IS first asked that a case be provided instead of a set up, so I pulled an original case from another vintage Ibanez. After I had agreed to do so he begged me to have it set up, saying he needed to gig right away and he was really hard up. I took it to one of the best luthiers in NYC and dropped $80 on a set up/clean up.

We agreed to the deal on March 15, IS told me that his guitar was boxed and ready to ship and would be sent out by March 17. I went out and got packing supplies, double boxed the guitar for protection and shipped my guitar on March 18. I called IS to confirm his shipping address from the UPS store, he told me that he was tied up and had not been able to ship his. Since he was a Hall of fame member here, and a VIP member on the Les Paul forums I figured it was safe to ship in advance of him, so my guitar was sent. He now had a tracking # and new my guitar was on its way. The timeline can be validated in this thread:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/member-classifieds/34991-fs-ft-1981-ibanez-artist.html

Over the next few days he gives me one excuse after another, I got worried over the weekend so I called UPS to see if the guitar could be held until I received shipping info from IS. I was told that my only option was to have the package sent back, and would have to pay for shipping again if I changed my mind. This did not seem like a viable option so I told them not to intercept the package. There was a mix up at UPS and they intercepted the package and had to send it back to the store that I used, the intercept happened on March 24. IS was irate at me doing that, I was suprised to hear of it and spoke to UPS and there was no way to reverse it. They offered to speak to IS to verify that it was their mistake, it ended up not being necessary since he seemed to be understanding of the situation.

When the guitar arrived back at the UPS store I called IS to see if he was ready to ship his out. When we spoke he said that he still was commited to the deal but due to a blizzard there was no way any packages could be sent or received; he said to wait a few days until the weather cleared. I guess that I chewed out the UPS store pretty bad because they immediately sent out the guitar again, and did not charge me for it.

I notified IS, and provided the tracking info once again, a couple days later he tells me that his Ace is now tied up in the studio and needs it for a couple of weeks. I found this a bit strange since these things always seem to pop up after my guitar gets shipped. As a gesture of good faith I said I could wait a bit until the project was done, provided it was not too long. My guitar is received by IS on April 7 and he is playing it within hours; in fact he takes it to rehearsal and sends me several PMs telling me how great my guitar is and how it blows his Ace away.

On April 12 I ask for an updated timeline for getting the Ace out, I receive a reply on April 13 saying that the recording is done and the Ace would be sent out later that day or first thing tomorrow. I thank IS for the update and ask for the tracking info once it gets out. April 14 at 5:37 pm IS sends me a PM saying no problem, he'll get to it. He sends me another PM April 14 at 5:49 pm saying that he could no longer do the deal for the Ace; apparently he has now taken it to 2 luthiers and they say that due to its damaged condition it is not a good deal for his Ace; the guitar that had been listed for $650 shipped just weeks earlier was now worth over $1000. He tries to get me to accept a tele in place of the Ace, he said he would also include a brand new Ernie ball volume pedal.

When I read the PM I flipped, there was never any mention of damage, the guitar was insured and if it was received damaged then it would have been covered. Plus he had sent me 4 PMs telling me how much he loved my guitar. I was tired of his BS so I posted a thread on Mylespaul forums asking for insight from other members:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/member-classifieds/41065-need-some-help-my-mlp-brothers.html

MLP, like HC, is filled with great, supportive people who agreed with my position and called IS out. Through the course of the thread links to the thread here and other forums wher IS had been caught in bad dealings surfaced. I got an uneasy feeling reading all these threads and called IS the first thing next morning-April 16; he tells me not to worry the Ace will be freed up soon but he will send me my guitar back in the meantime and will now give me 2 pedals for my troubles. He also said that he would ship the Ace to me once the studio work is done and once I received it, he would pay for me to ship the Ibanez back to him. I told him not to worry about the pedals, I just want the deal done as we had first agreed. He said that he would ship me my guitar back that day, I asked that he reimburse me for my shipping($65) since it had been a month already and I could use the money(he had offered to paypal me $700 for my Ibanez the night before so this should not be an issue).

There is another series of excuses but the guitar finally gets out the following week, but he cannot pay me for shipping until May 3, somehow the $700 evaporated overnight. As I am waiting I became more active in the HC thread, posting my experience in an objective manner, an times even defending IS. I received a PM from another HC member bringing the following threads to my attention:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2273728

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2297840

I spoke with the individual in these threads and he confirms that he traded his tele with IS for his Ace frehley, the exact one that he had commited to me. The timeline, which can be confirmed in the threads, indicates that once IS knew that my guitar had already been sent, reached out to another member here and worked out another deal. He had been without the guitar that was supposed to be mine for 3 weeks at this point. If you read thread #60 in the MLP thread on April 16, IS is publically saying that he still has the Ace, it is tied up in the studio, and he will make good on the deal.

At this point I am livid, I call IS and his attitude is whatever dude, I made a mistake, whats the big deal. He tells me he will ship me 2 pedals for my troubles and he agrees that he will cover all the expenses incurred, just send him a PM with the amount. I do so and he tells me that he feels the only thing he should cover is the shipping. I feel that since he asked me to include a case instead of a set up, then later begs me to set up the guitar playing on my sympathy he should reimburse my costs. I asked that he paypal me $175 which would cover most of my costs, ignoring all the my time and fuel which were wasted, and the infinite frustration he has caused.

[Gegg&H]

I receive my guitar on April 27, and even before I open the box it was shipped in, I can smell a strong tobacco odor. I open the box and I am hit with an unbelievable stench, I open the case and it smells like I am sitting in a smokers lounge. I had the guitar shipped to my office and my co-workers begin complaining about the smell, and the nearest desk is 10 feet away. I go to CVS and buy a bottle of fabreeze and spray the case every hour; this does not help. The fretboard absolutely reeks, to the point that I cannot bring the guitar home, I live in a small apartment and it would stink the whole place up. One of my coworkers complains to HR about the smell and I am forced to put it in the basement of the building. After daily treatments of fabreeze on the case the smell has not lost any intensity. I am told that the guitar and case need to leave or be thrown out. I have taken the guitar home and I can't go near it, the case I left over the weekend hoping that a little more time will help. If it is not better by Monday I will have to throw it out; this is a vintage Ibanez Artist case, in perfect condition, that will be very costly to replace.

I send IS several PMs notfying him of the issue and I receive no response. after several days I call his house and his wife says that he is out, I told her that I would call back later. Later that night I get this PM from IS:

(Originally Posted by IndianScout
it's not tobacco asshole,

when we take anything into a ceremony it's blessed with sweet grass, sage and tobacco

if you call my wife again with your bull{censored}, I will have the feds on you in a heartbeat..

we are a protected people,,

if you don't like the smell 409 takes it off in a hurry, I've done it many times..

like I said I will pay for your shipping, but I will not pay for the setup you said was included in the deal, if you have a problem with this,

you can contact my uncle who is a federal tribal judge,

anytime you think you have a case come on up to my reservation and file it, it's the only place that you can..

have a great day, but come the 3rd I will reimburse your shipping, as far as some tunnel {censored}, well you choose to live there not me, and I bet you drive thru there daily and I will not pay the funds)

So this guy accepts a guitar that does not belong to him, knowing that he has nothing to send me in return. He then has the audacity to take it to some tribal ceremony and does whatever and feels that he has no responsibility here. I had a very civil 20 second conversation with his wife and he threatens me.

IS has been telling everyone that he has made all his bad deal right, the only thing he has done in my case has been verbally abusive, threatening and has sent my guitar back in an unplayable condition. At this point I do not know what to do, I have not received any of the pedals he promised me( it seems he has promised the same pedals to others) I have not received a dime from him to cover any of the expenses I incurred in his attempt to defraud me. I am going to have to throw the case out, I am doubtfull that I can find a replacement but a decent case will be at least $100. I have spoken with my luthier and he has said that I am looking at around $150 for him to remove all the hardware and electronics and try to get the smell out, and that is not guaranteed. I have received several PMs from other that have dealt with IS that have told me that they were never able to get the smell out and had to dump the gear at a significant loss.

I don't know what help can be offered by the forum, but this has been a miserable experience for me, and IS has done nothing to rectify it as he has indicated.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but I felt that the facts needed to be presented. I have many more PMs from IS that I can share to corroborate my side of the story

[ashasha]

Don't worry Gegg&H; that's more than enough information.

I had no idea that it was this bad, but if anyone here has anything to say in IndianScouts defense they haven't stepped up to the plate and I don't think they are coming.

I'm going to put everything that I have seen or been told about this whole ordeal out in the open right here and right now so that there is no question about why this or that has been done.

This really is kind of sad because not only has someone been put out by someone here; it was by someone who was a respected Hall of Fame Member of this forum and with that there is some prestige and a sense of trust that goes with it. I mean thousands of posts and a supposedly good reputation is enough to let your guard down and think that the transaction will go safely and smoothly. That obviously isn't the case here.

I asked all parties involved (especially IndianScout) to have good or bad trades involving him posted in this thread so that we would get an idea of what was going on. He sent me a list of some good trades he had, but I told him (as I told everyone else that thrashed me about not putting him on the bad traders list) that it had to be in this thread and posted by the other person to be used for the list (no self promotion). This has been a few weeks now and this is the only post that has been made in regards to him in this thread.

It was also brought to my attention by a few others that they were reluctant because they were still hoping that he would come through for them; posting here would surely have killed any chances of that. It's sad because I've been in that situation before and it's almost like being held hostage; if you call him out for his actions then you risk angering him and losing any chance of getting your stuff.

Now IndianScout has been pretty good about trying to keep me in the loop with his corrective measures have been and I was really hoping that he would be able to make things right and make everyone happy, but someone made a very good point about this whole thing. If someone goes back and tries to make things right after the fact does that mean that the person is a good trader now and that the transaction is in fact a good experience? That's a pretty good point if you ask me.

I mean if someone donated money to an orphanage every month, then beats the crap out of a kid in the school yard one day and then buys him a lollipop is the beating forgiven? Did it not happen? Not one of my best analogies, but I think that you get the point.

It really does appear that the only reason why any of his actions to fix things were made was because he was called out by a number of people that weren't happy with him in another thread. That right there sends up a red flag, but I was pretty damn firm about my stance in not doing anything to the list without a factual post involving a party of the trade over here.

Well I got a very informative and thorough post here and I have no doubt that officially putting IndianScout on the bad traders list is the right thing to do. I don't have any doubt that IndianScout has had good dealings with people in the past and I am not interested in trying to find out what parts his personal struggles in life may have played a role in some of this...I only know that in this specific case he has been reported as a bad trader and it was done after he had been given time to work things out.

I also don't think that this is the last of the posts about his trading history. But this was the final straw in my book as I had been hoping that things would turn out differently when I read his response in the other thread::

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34215302&postcount=731

bad trader?? STFU, I've probably done more trades than most people here, I got into trouble that's not lie, but I have made it right with everyone so far, so shove your opinion up your ass btw, tobacco, sweet grass and sage are part of our religious ceremonies, if you don't like it then when they pass the plate at your christian church hand them your guitar.. end of story.. funny even with this thread, I continue to make great trades with people. so this thread is pointless

There's also a whole lot of threats and stuff about suing for slander or liable or whatever throughout a lot of the thread over there as well. It sounds like a lot of bullying to me which isn't a good way to do business.

I will concede that he was attacked (and yeah, some of those comments made to him were out of line and offensive so I thought that he was justified to make some outbursts at times), but when it came down to brass tacks on issues concerning trades and deals he came off as someone who doesn't belong on a good traders list.

Now just remember that the bad traders list isn't a prison sentence; it's just like e-Bay feedback. If someone gives bad feedback it doesn't mean that you can't ever deal with them or that they are a bad person; it's just a report of a bad transaction that occurred.

I am really hoping that we can leave personal attacks and stuff out of this and move forward.

[theaxeripper]

I've had plenty of good transactions here over the years, I wish I could remember everyone! Those I can remember are in my sig:

 

dcindc: I honestly forget what we've traded before....I think he bought a Strat copy from me, but I do remember him being very professional and easy to work with.

 

drewdrewdrew: Bought a Charvel San Dimas copy from me, great buyer.

 

ProjectX: Sold me said Charvel clone.

 

woody96: Traded an Xaviere tele for an upgraded SX strat clone. Fast PM's, great to talk to on the phone, and an all around good guy. The trade was smooth as ice cream and everyone was happy.

[cheezusbhrist]

is FrankieVA up there, i am very happy with the trade i made with him

[Dixie 10-8]

I'm the guy who started the Indianscout thread. Without going into all the bloody details...the guy offered me a trade - his tele for my strat. I acccepted his offer, we exchanged a ton of email, exchanged shipping addresses, and agreed on a shipping day. On that day I shipped as promised and sent him the tracking# immediately. He didn't send a tracking # because he didn't ship. He also refused shipment of my strat, then claimed his 12-year old niece was the one who refused the shipment. I was later PM'd by two other forumites who informed me that Indianscout was also offering them the tele in trade - and this was while my strat was enroute to him.

Long story short - this guy is a chronic liar and game-player who doesn't care who he burns. And for every lie and every dirty deal he has an excuse on tap: I had to take my wife to the hospital...my medication has me screwed up and I can't remember things...I didn't ship your guitar because we had a blizzard...I have the right to change my mind...you're just bashing me because I'm an indian...and on and on.

If you haven't read the thread in the classifieds, and have an hour or so to kill, check it out. He probably has close to a hundred posts there all by himself - read what the guy has to say from start to finish. If you want to know what kind of human being Indianscout is, his posts will tell you all you need to know.

Good Deals With: jgballer, emmerwood x2, blackhathunter, Frank Thompson, Jim Hunter, Daveydude, Pinchegordo, Rockapede, Altgtr 33, Pbomber22, Paulderlunas, Tom Cray, Yavin x2, Tinypants, Teleman, dangolguitartech x2, Adam Poland, Jedd, Ajboy 238, AlexMack, Silverring 233, SOLARPIMP, Caddilacman, strangegrey.

Bad Deal: INDIANSCOUT

[Lucid_Lunatic]

Cool, I'm on the list! I had no idea about this until the whole Indian Scout thread. I'll go through the names and post who all di good deals by me also.

Very good idea here guys!

[Lucid_Lunatic]

Good deals with KjStrat62 and Remolution.

[Yavin]

1x each recent good deals with:

 

southpaw pete

GibsonVMan

Gibson Dreamer

[ashasha]

UPDATED

[uberthrall]

Everyone in my sig was great to deal with.....all of em standup guys.

[steve_man]

great deal with jcameronk2 Sold him my Vypyr. Quick payment, great communication!

[leopardstar]

somebody PM me indianscout's phone #, being a fellow naitive, maybe I can help work this out.

[ashasha]

somebody PM me indianscout's phone #, being a fellow naitive, maybe I can help work this out.

I don't want to come off as inconsiderate or anything, but I think that the whole thing has run it's course.

[silverring233]

+1 for newbuilder. awesome trade, and trader!

[captainzoli]

Great deal with dogbone94. Fast shipper and overall great guy to deal with.

[dogbone94]

captainzoli
dangolguitartec

[SnoMan97]

Updated list:

Good Dealings:

Jim Hunter, sirkonks, bnelly428, cadfael, theraygun, rjhalsey, theweight, Verence, kadrocker, danhauk, teleman, nevermind, cavpilot, Timmott, Dmerge, Doctor Morbius, tomh777, BigDaddyMojo, theAntihero, vexed73, Ra, alley trash, gearaholic, salsage, tinypants, Dropped_2_C, rpeterson, silverring233, bluesthug, vidiot72

[newbuilder]

+1 for newbuilder. awesome trade, and trader!

Ditto...I would recomend dealing without hesitation with silverring233.

Awsome dude. Everything arrived safe and was packaged very well. Real nice guy too.

[Zemmy]

good trade with kingsransom

[captainzoli]

Great deal with boonestunes.

[newbuilder]

Zemmy you classy cocksucker you. I love that Zemmy, traded three guitars around and he gave me my first real strat. Strat came in the biggest box ever.

[silverring233]

give it up for tkozuch. shipped when promised.

[tkozuch]

Just had a great deal with silverring233. Awesome communication and guitar was just as described. Trade with confidence.

[lowbrow]

Good deal with WALL-E