Autotune makes TIME Magazine's "50 Worst Inventions" list

[Lee Flier]

Right up there with hydrogen blimps, Agent Orange, hydrogenated oils, and tanning beds.

 

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1991915,00.html

 

[Lee Knight]

Why isn't Photoshop listed?

[Coaster]

thanks computers.

 

they got the betamax all wrong though

[Ernest Buckley]

Right up there with hydrogen blimps, Agent Orange, hydrogenated oils, and tanning beds. http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1991915,00.html

 

Beautiful. I couldn`t agree more.

[UstadKhanAli]

Fantastic list! I think pop-up ads and pay toilets are right up there with AutoTune!

[Jon Chappell]

Right up there with hydrogen blimps, Agent Orange, hydrogenated oils, and tanning beds. http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1991915,00.html

 

 

Remember the proposed copy-protection scheme for digital recordings that inserted a steep notch well within the range of human hearing?

 

If a "worst inventions" list was complied for just the audio industry then this would surely rank near the top:

 

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Putting+a+notch+into+digital+sound-a06507687

[UstadKhanAli]

8-track tape?

[Lee Flier]

 

thanks computers. they got the betamax all wrong though

 

 

I agree. Although they did say that their inclusion of Betamax wasn't so much because it was a bad product, but because Sony's marketing scheme sucked.

[Lee Flier]

Remember the proposed copy-protection scheme for digital recordings that inserted a steep notch well within the range of human hearing? If a "worst inventions" list was complied for just the audio industry then this would surely rank near the top: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Putting+a+notch+into+digital+sound-a06507687

 

Oh yeah, that was good.

 

Notice they did include the Sony CD copy protection scheme - the one that was defeated within a couple of days by some kids with magic markers. :lol:

[claveslave]

I know I'm in the minority here but quite frankly, I think AT gets a bum rap way too often. As a producer paying for talent, it has saved my bacon on numerous occasions and helped to avoid having to pay the talent another fee just to get something in tune that was missed in the heat of the original session. It's a tool. It's the fools that over use it that are the bad invention.

[drewfx1]

I'd say it's a wildly popular, often badly used invention.

 

I mean if you judge the printing press based on the way some people have historically used it (FI to spread bigotry and hatred), it's a much, much worse invention.

 

If used in moderation, is autotune anything more than mildly annoying?

[nat whilk II]

Behind every notorious bad invention is a brilliant marketer.

 

 

nat whilk ii

[Coaster]

 

I agree. Although they did say that their inclusion of Betamax wasn't so much because it was a bad product, but because Sony's marketing scheme sucked.

 

 

it wasnt marketing at all, it was licensing. oddly enough no one learned from this and the same (similar) happened with blue ray/hddvd

[Lee Flier]

I'd say it's a wildly popular, often badly used invention. I mean if you judge the printing press based on the way some people have historically used it (FI to spread bigotry and hatred), it's a much, much worse invention.

 

Yes, but the good uses far outweigh the bad there. Unlike Autotune.

 

If used in moderation, is autotune anything more than mildly annoying?

 

Yes.

 

Seriously I think the ramifications of Autotune go way beyond how much it is actually used. I think the knowledge that it can be used has resulted in a lot of artists and producers not trying as hard for that magic take as they used to. "Oh, you can fix that with Autotune, right?" has become a pretty standard line nowadays, even when working with a really good singer.

 

Some argue that Autotune has also been used to save an otherwise magic take that has a bum note or two. And I don't doubt that's true, although in the "old days" we'd have just punched in or comped a line from another take, or left the bum note(s) in, and somehow a lot of great records still managed to be made.

 

In fact, can anyone name a record that's been made since the Autotune era that features a more emotionally compelling vocal performance than the records made before Autotune was invented? Cuz if the "Autotune saved a great take" claims are true, you'd think there would be a lot of those. Obviously, "emotionally compelling" is subjective, but I'd be interested to hear people's opinions.

[spokenward]

I use a neutered CueCat for barcode scanning.

 

Wikipedia says they dumped 2 million.

 

(it's in the linked article)

[drewfx1]

Yes, but the good uses far outweigh the bad there. Unlike Autotune. Yes. Seriously I think the ramifications of Autotune go way beyond how much it is actually used. I think the knowledge that it can be used has resulted in a lot of artists and producers not trying as hard for that magic take as they used to. "Oh, you can fix that with Autotune, right?" has become a pretty standard line nowadays, even when working with a really good singer. Some argue that Autotune has also been used to save an otherwise magic take that has a bum note or two. And I don't doubt that's true, although in the "old days" we'd have just punched in or comped a line from another take, or left the bum note(s) in, and somehow a lot of great records still managed to be made. In fact, can anyone name a record that's been made since the Autotune era that features a more emotionally compelling vocal performance than the records made before Autotune was invented? Cuz if the "Autotune saved a great take" claims are true, you'd think there would be a lot of those. Obviously, "emotionally compelling" is subjective, but I'd be interested to hear people's opinions.

 

I mostly agree as, just to be clear, I'm not a big fan of autotune in general. And when it's used as a deliberate effect, it doesn't do really anything for me either. But it's just a tool.

 

And I would put digital lookahead limiters and loudness maximizers much higher on my list of bad inventions - if we're going to criticize wildly popular inventions for their widespread misuse/abuse.

[Anderton]

I know I'm in the minority here but quite frankly, I think AT gets a bum rap way too often. As a producer paying for talent, it has saved my bacon on numerous occasions and helped to avoid having to pay the talent another fee just to get something in tune that was missed in the heat of the original session. It's a tool. It's the fools that over use it that are the bad invention.

 

I'm in total agreement. It's a Catch-22: When pitch correction is used as a transparent correction tool, nobody hears it, so it doesn't get props for being useful. But when people set Retune Speed to zero, then all of a sudden it's Auto-Tune's fault.

 

If there had been internet forums 75 years ago, I'm sure there would have been massive bitching about how electric guitars allow any idiot to drown out the singer. I remember back in the 60s when multitracking was considered a dishonest circumvention of "real" music, and using EQ or reverb to augment a singer's voice were considered crutches.

 

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose...

[Anderton]

 

In fact, can anyone name a record that's been made since the Autotune era that features a more emotionally compelling vocal performance than the records made before Autotune was invented? Cuz if the "Autotune saved a great take" claims are true, you'd think there would be a lot of those. Obviously, "emotionally compelling" is subjective, but I'd be interested to hear people's opinions.

 

 

But if it's used tastefully, how would you know whether Auto-Tune was used or not, and therefore, whether it saved the take or not?

 

You could make an equally valid (if not more so) argument that punching makes for less compelling vocal performances because it destroys continuity. At least with Auto-Tune, you can lay down a complete vocal as a single emotional experience, and fix a couple notes here and there after the fact. Punching superimposes at least two, and usually more, real-time activities on something that, IMHO, works best as a single, real-time experience.

 

If I do a vocal with two notes that are a bit off, I'd much rather fix them with pitch correction to preserve the vocal's emotional flow than do punches.

 

But to me, the BEST invention by far for vocals isn't punches or Auto-Tune, it's comping. Being able to do multiple vocals and get "into the groove" always results in better vocals for me. I rarely piece together a vocal from different comps, I pick the take that's best and run with it.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

But to me, the BEST invention by far for vocals isn't punches or Auto-Tune, it's comping. Being able to do multiple vocals and get "into the groove" always results in better vocals for me. I rarely piece together a vocal from different comps, I pick the take that's best and run with it.

 

 

That's for darn sure. I don't have AutoTune, but comping is indispensable for what I do. I have one killer vocal take and then go and fix a few things, and bang, it's done.

[Geoff Grace]

I'm in total agreement. It's a Catch-22: When pitch correction is used as a transparent correction tool, nobody hears it, so it doesn't get props for being useful. But when people set Retune Speed to zero, then all of a sudden it's Auto-Tune's fault. If there had been internet forums 75 years ago, I'm sure there would have been massive bitching about how electric guitars allow any idiot to drown out the singer.

It's interesting that you should bring up guitars in an Auto-Tune thread, since one could make a case that frets on a guitar are akin to pitch correction on a vocal track.

 

I wonder how many violinists feel that guitar players are cheaters for playing a fretted instrument.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[blue2blue]

Another 'innovation' that strikes me (and apparently a boatload of other folks) as really stupid: established application suites (like, oh, say, MS Office) that have had conventional hierarchical menu systems for many, many years, suddenly imposing a GUI with no central menu system -- a central menu system from which all commands can be found by anyone with rudimentary logical abilities. (Didn't know what a specific command is called in App Z? The menu system used to provide a helpful, categorized, tree-structured framework from which you could 'drill down' to the specifics you wanted with relative ease.)

 

Whenever I talk to people about, say, MS Office 2007, if the menu issue comes up, they almost all express frustration and bewilderment at why such a change was imposed. If MS had made the new system an option -- even a default option -- few would have had any real complaints, I don't think. But by removing the old, familiar, quite effective system entirely they really messed up. (Unless things have changed you have to go to a third party add-in -- with all the security and support issues that potentially entails -- to regain this most basic functionality.)

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

I just downloaded a beautiful new wife from Vietnam today

 

she get just printed now with the human cell printer

 

in the printer options I blocked that she talks a lot

[Lee Flier]

 

But if it's used tastefully, how would you know whether Auto-Tune was used or not, and therefore, whether it saved the take or not?

 

 

I didn't say you had to know whether Autotune was used or not, I just asked for any examples of records that have really moving vocal performances since Autotune was invented - performances that you'd consider better than anything that came before that period.

 

 

You could make an equally valid (if not more so) argument that punching makes for less compelling vocal performances because it destroys continuity. At least with Auto-Tune, you can lay down a complete vocal as a single emotional experience, and fix a couple notes here and there after the fact. Punching superimposes at least two, and usually more, real-time activities on something that, IMHO, works best as a single, real-time experience.

 

 

Well, it depends how long the punch is. If it's just a couple of notes, then yeah. Usually if I punch, though, it's a whole line or phrase at least - enough to maintain some continuity. People do abuse punching and comping too, obviously. But the abuses of Autotune are far more widespread and audible.

 

 

If I do a vocal with two notes that are a bit off, I'd much rather fix them with pitch correction to preserve the vocal's emotional flow than do punches.

 

 

Honestly if it's just a note or two, I'd rather leave it alone. If it's that much off, the pitch correction is going to be audible anyway which sounds like crap - in which case I'd rather punch or comp it. And if it's not that far off, I don't see the need to "fix" it.

 

 

But to me, the BEST invention by far for vocals isn't punches or Auto-Tune, it's comping. Being able to do multiple vocals and get "into the groove" always results in better vocals for me. I rarely piece together a vocal from different comps, I pick the take that's best and run with it.

 

 

Yeah, agreed. Comping is good, and if everything is great except for one line, or there was one line that was particularly great on one take, it's nice to be able to mix and match.

[Lee Flier]

It's a Catch-22: When pitch correction is used as a transparent correction tool, nobody hears it, so it doesn't get props for being useful.

 

Well again - I think that even when it's used transparently, it had an effect on the session.

 

I also think that 1) some people are more sensitive to being able to hear it at a higher threshold than others, and 2) as I said in my last post, if you really can't hear it (meaning the note can't have been too far off), then I question whether it really needed to be "fixed" in the first place.

 

If there had been internet forums 75 years ago, I'm sure there would have been massive bitching about how electric guitars allow any idiot to drown out the singer. I remember back in the 60s when multitracking was considered a dishonest circumvention of "real" music, and using EQ or reverb to augment a singer's voice were considered crutches.

 

But it's all true! It's just a matter of degree, and how much the tool enables creativity vs. just being a crutch. With Autotune, I think the ratio becomes unacceptable. There just aren't enough creative uses for it vs. potential for abuse.

[Anderton]

It's interesting that you should bring up guitars in an Auto-Tune thread, since one could make a case that frets on a guitar are akin to pitch correction on a vocal track.

 

Never thought of it that way, but it's a brilliant observation. IIRC keyboards quantize to the nearest semitone as well