How Much Longer Before Tube Amps Are Obsolete?

[Wyatt]

 

I do wish they started making tube amps that are more practical for a majority of players using them for small gigs. Something like the Hot Rod Deluxe is about right, but even that is a little too loud for practicing with it at home. Would be great if they made that amp or something similar like it with a 5w/25w/40w power switch would be great. The 5w tube amps are great for home, but can't really cut it with a drummer. The 100w tube amps are overkill. Just seems like the sweet spot that would suit most players has been over looked thus far. Also curious why Fender never made a head version of the Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville as I own both amps and they are a beast to have to load and unload from a car/ carry to practice/gigs. I would love a head version of either the 40w Deluxe or 60w Deville, which would be great being the same amp just in a smaller 10-15 pound head instead of the 60-70 pound beast of a cabinet.

 

 

The problem is, you can't change the power output without compromising the tone. And people want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

Attenuators, power scaling, triode/pentode switching, yellow-jacket tube adapters, etc. are all great tools for lowering output, whether it be a little bit for a gig or a whole lot for using at home. But then people bitch about how they change tone. Well, they can't have it both ways. They have to understand the word "compromise." If it's a rig you use for gigs and you want to play it at home with the baby sleeping, be willing to give up practice tone for piece of mind...it'll still sound great at gigs, which is what its intended for. This is the biggest reason companies don't bother with power switching, people just end up bitching about the tone.

 

On the flipside, you can get a great 3-5 watt home amp that'll sound great in the practice room (probably still too loud for the bedroom) and can sound exactly the same, if not bigger and fuller miked into the PA at a gig. But then people bitch about the extra equipment or not having a PA.

 

I mean ... WTF? It's a tool, one picks the best tool for the job, if they are trying to use the tool for a job different than it was intended, results won't be the same. People can expect neither a large screwdriver to fit in those tiny little screws that are use in toys nor a jewelers screwdriver to work when changing out their transmission. There are versatile multi-use amps that are like a Leatherman or Swiss Army knife; it'll do a lot of jobs, but is rarely suited to do any job optimally, you have to give up something for the versatility they offer.

 

In short, people usually ask way too much from one amp.

 

I have a PodXt and DG Stomp for bedroom and recording work. A five-watt Tweed Champ, a five-watt SF Champ, a 12-watt Tweed Deluxe, and 25- or 35-watt Allen Accomplice. And I also have 20 different-sized Phillip's head screwdrivers because not every screw is the same size or easy to get to.

 

As for the head version of the Hot Rod series, that's simple economics, the tweed-style chassis Fender uses for those doesn't fit well in a head cabinet...and they don't want the extra expense of using two chassis's or redesigning the amp layout. The cost to do either can be use instead to fill a different hole in their market.

[wartoxin]

I hope stores don't start carrying tube amps and digital only. There are more tones to be had than vintage amps and digital simulations of them. Digital always has a limit in my experience, a limit to gain, white noise that can't be removed, a limit to how many effects can be used before the signal starts to get glitchy. Analog is pure, you put a good signal in and it comes out the same, it caught on for bass amps obviously.

[scuzzo]

forgot to do the quote thing... but some dude up there said words to that effect
but anyway..
saying all models sound like sand paper is like saying that every amp with a tube is a fine sounding piece of equipment... there are a {censored} load of amps tubed non tubed solid state.. or what ever that that just have half ass fartty 2 dimensional dishwater tone...

kinda a narrow view of sound enforcement..

[Prages]

I would love a head version of either the 40w Deluxe or 60w Deville, which would be great being the same amp just in a smaller 10-15 pound head instead of the 60-70 pound beast of a cabinet.

 

 

Even if they made a head version, it'd still weigh more than 10-15 pounds. Just the transformers alone weigh that much.

 

I do get your point. You're lugging around 40-50 pounds of speakers in some combo amps.

[ΨWindingΨ]

They already are but they look cool and sound better.

[GibsonQC]

 

I do hope not. I hold onto my vote in hopes that all options are incorrect.

 

 

+1

 

You need another option for tube amps being here for good. Modeling amps, no matter how good, can't pull off the same harmonics/artificial harmonics, in my opinion. Also, the play/feel you get from plugging a great guitar into a dimed tube amp can not be reproduced. I've never played on a modeling device that allowed me to roll back my volume & clean up (but still get a nice gritty tone). Not to mention that modeled "warmth" doesn't sound like actual warmth.

 

...and this is all coming from a guy who also plays a guitar synth. So, I'm not opposed to technology.

[Tubefox]

I doubt the technology will ever become "obsolete" unless someone finds a way to exactly reproduce the sound of tubes at a lessened cost. Until then, there will always be people who want tubes.

That said, I predict that solid state modeling amps will, as others have said, start to sound good. As this happens, better tone will become available at a significantly lessened cost. Solid states or cheaper than tubes, and once the technology has been around for a while, an amp that can almost perfectly model a Fender Twin Reverb will probably cost way less than a Fender Twin Reverb. Once this happens, tubes will grow less popular and therefore less will be made. The lessened quantity will raise the price to build a tube amp, and therefore the price will go up, pushing tubes even deeper into the high-end and boutique markets.

At this point, I'm guessing most of the people who use tubes are going to be older guys or the same kind of young person who today buys tons of vinyl.

[mhuxtable]

I don't even think a "few" will be made 30 years from now. I think they will still be the sound most people go for & therefore still mass produced 30 years from now.

I mean seriously, it's been what....around 60 or so years since the first tube guitar amps were made & they are (basically) STILL made the same way & are still what people prefer to play?

I don't think that'll change much over time.

[John Davis]

Despite the hype, tube amps are pretty cheap to build..if you don't believe me, open one up...the question will be whether people want to build tubes any more...not the amps....

I suspect as long as there are players who want to take a clean un effected guitar and wind up the amp to get vintage tone...they will chase tubes..

Personally...there are only a few players out there who can really get the benefit of their tube amps....

Which means playing loud..on stage, not through a PA, great guitar...doing the type of music where overdriven clean is king.......Hendrix didn't have a choice...that's all he had to work with at the time....

[Promit]

Both extremes are stupid. Tube amps are not going away, modelers are not going away -- even those {censored}ty Rogue 10W digital noise boxes aren't going away. There are so many players looking for so many different things, and it's much more complex than tube vs solid state.

 

I've played a couple low end tube amps that sounded like -ass-. Even brand new ones released in 2010! I've played modelers that sounded awesome and {censored}ty depending on the preset (Fender Mustang, Line6 POD/Spider). I can't stand the god awful noise that a Marshall MG spits out, yet these are fairly popular for gigs. And just look at how popular the JC-120 is with the jazz guys.

 

People like to talk about picking the right tool for the job. That's not it. The key is to pick the right tool for the player, and that will always be a huge range.

[cratz2]

Closest poll results, EVER!

[Wyatt]

I mean seriously, it's been what....around 60 or so years since the first tube guitar amps were made & they are (basically) STILL made the same way & are still what people prefer to play?

 

 

80 years.

 

I have 60-year old amps and those are considered relatively modern design wise.

[sh944]

Well, I just did my part to keep analog tube amps around, just puchased a BC Audio #8.

I think the bottom line comes down to "its not what you got, its what you do with what you've got" that counts. SS or tube, doesn't matter if you can make it work.

[mhuxtable]

80 years. I have 60-year old amps and those are considered relatively modern design wise.

i stand corrected! only proves the point more.

[robertkoa]

The Mayans predicted that tube amps would become obsolete in 2012, the year their Calendar ends but- according to Cave Drawings , the quality of tubes was very bad in 5000 BC.

 

This is probably why, we, still to this day, hear NO Mayan Metal Music.

[guitarman3001]

The Mayans predicted that tube amps would become obsolete in 2012, the year their Calendar ends but- according to Cave Drawings , the quality of tubes was very bad in 5000 BC. This is probably why, we, still to this day, hear NO Mayan Metal Music.

 

 

I saw that on the History channel the other day!! Cool stuff!!!

[Shiny_Surface]

Interesting poll results.

['s mel gibson]

Tube amps are not going away! They will get more expensive!

 

I love them but, my back doesn't.

 

What hasn't shaken up our world is a lighter speaker design. Yamaha (I think) came out with a styrofoam speaker way back but they didn't last for long. They were light and resembled baffle walls but were a failure.

[northpark]

solid state sounds good too

[aliensporebomb]

My father-in-law gave me an old tube shortwave radio that was built to mil-spec in WW2. It will be around LONG after I am even if the tubes that make it go are not available. But there are also ham radio types who lust for tubes as much as we guitarists do.

 

My Mesa is built out of steel: the first owner had the thing fall out of a stage rack face first into the stage floor and it STILL WORKED even though the right channel potentiometer sheared clean off and dented the front panel. I bought it for a song, it went back to Mesa for refurbishment and a new reverb tube and it was good as new.

 

It's a fantastic piece of hardware. And definetely not going to die off anytime soon.

 

But it's not just SOUND - some modelers are surprisingly good at the sound aspect but the touch sensitivity is something you don't see with even the best modelers yet.

 

And, there will be those who really WANT the tube sound and feel which is something that no solid state device has really emulated. Yet.

[beavisguitar99]

I think a lot of you guys are totally ignorant about modelers. The latest generation of modelers sound and feel tube like. I can go from full distortion to clean from rolling my guitar volume from 10 to 3. This only works on some amp models however, and that's because some amp models don't respond as well. Just like real amps.

With in one or two more generations of modeling we will have captured true tone and feel. I'm going to guess this will be exact to each knob on the physical amp. You can't stop technology folks. There is an obvious demand for modelers. There will be companies making them. I'm not saying tube amps will go away entierly, there is always a vintage market.

[_pete_]

Tubes were obsolete years ago. Guitarists are too close minded and hard headed to accept it.

 

They could stop production of all tubes tomorrow and I won't bat an eyelid.

[sk8centilli]

Do you thing with all the new ways of modelling SS amps that tube amps are doomed to extinction in the near future?

 

 

I think "modelling" amps hit their zenith with the Fender Cyber Twin and that is already being phased out. Therefore, I believe tubes have proven themselves.

[Steadfastly]

I think a lot of you guys are totally ignorant about modelers. The latest generation of modelers sound and feel tube like. I can go from full distortion to clean from rolling my guitar volume from 10 to 3. This only works on some amp models however, and that's because some amp models don't respond as well. Just like real amps. With in one or two more generations of modeling we will have captured true tone and feel. I'm going to guess this will be exact to each knob on the physical amp. You can't stop technology folks. There is an obvious demand for modelers. There will be companies making them. I'm not saying tube amps will go away entierly, there is always a vintage market.

 

 

For your 18th post, I think it was very insightful and probable the closest to what will happen. Especially in a cost conscious market, what will get the job done for the least amount of money will eventually lead to the end of most tube amps. But as you say, there will always be a vintage market as there is for just about anything.

[bsman]

I agree that tube amps are already obsolete. Of course, so are telecasters and lesters. That doesn't mean we'll stop playing 'em!