Members Pine Apple Slim Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 If there are no good tube amps to model, then what, a model of a model?I dont think they will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 For your 18th post, I think it was very insightful and probable the closest to what will happen. Especially in a cost conscious market, what will get the job done for the least amount of money will eventually lead to the end of most tube amps. But as you say, there will always be a vintage market as there is for just about anything. Oh, {censored} that. Engineers will point out that, on paper, transistors and tubes should provide identical results. There were even transistors designed to mimic specific tubes. In reality they all admit, it doesn't work. Everyone assumed they would eventually catch up, they never did. Everyone assumes one day digital modelers will be able to clone a tube amps tone and behavior, but they haven't yet. They may never do so. But even if they do, it's not like everyone has going to jump ship. Tubes have been obsolete in consumer electronics for 45 years now. Yet, in the last 25 years, we have gotten the Soldano SLO, Mesa Dual Rectifier, and Bogner Ecstasy and Shiva. As well as Diezel, Engl, Wizard, Matchless, Bad Cat, Komet, Mojave, Budda, Tone King, Dr. Z, Naylor, Reinhardt, etc. Companies are constantly redefining and revising tube preamp design. Tube amps are more popular now than they were 20 years ago...not just in the guitar world, but in hi-fi as well. I believe there will be more than a vintage market in in 30 or 40 years. We aren't talking mass consumer products here. In the "cost conscience" consumer market...okay is good enough...mp3's sound flatter than CD's which sound more compressed than vinyl....but we put up with them because of convenience. Guitarists are a specialty fringe market, they are cost conscience, they can and will buy what they want to. Nobody here needs to buy a $6K guitar or have three dozens guitars, but it's a hobby, they'll spend money on it for entertainment value. So, they aren't going to balk at paying more for a tube amp. $2K for a guitar amp you keep for 20 years isn't an expensive purchase, it's $100 a year. People keep predicting the end of various guitar products, but the last major product to become obsolete in the guitar world was the field coil speaker in 1948. We still use the same pickup technology introduced by Beauchamp in 1931. Alnico guitar speakers are more widely available now they they have been since ceramic speakers were introduced in the early '60's. People are in no rush to scrap anything traditional about guitar. What have fallened to the wayside are all the hi-tech substitutes that were suppose to be as good and replace old technology...optical pickups, guitar synths, mosfet amps, etc. I mean, think about it. They are trying to model tube amps? Why? Why not start from scratch? Why set your goal to model technology that was obsolete before Kennedy was shot? Tubes are the benchmark. They aren't even trying to surpass tubes, just equal them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nuke_diver Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 I do wish they started making tube amps that are more practical for a majority of players using them for small gigs. Something like the Hot Rod Deluxe is about right, but even that is a little too loud for practicing with it at home. Would be great if they made that amp or something similar like it with a 5w/25w/40w power switch would be great. The 5w tube amps are great for home, but can't really cut it with a drummer. The 100w tube amps are overkill. Just seems like the sweet spot that would suit most players has been over looked thus far. . Mesa Transatlantic (5/15/25W and easily loud enough to gig) only weighs 12lbs To the question, probably they will go away around the same time people stop comparing different wood types for the best tonal qualities :poke: Modellers have a great place. They are typically lighter cheaper for beginners and for recording (and compressed MP3) it's hard to hear any difference. But there will always be some subjectivity I think and at least right now for me I "hear" something in a tube amp that I don't in a SS. Now that's with me playing both. As we all know tone is really in the fingers so me on a tube and someone else on a SS the SS will sound better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members noisebloom Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Tubes are the benchmark. They aren't even trying to surpass tubes, just equal them. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MONGOOZ Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Do you thing with all the new ways of modelling SS amps that tube amps are doomed to extinction in the near future? the correct answer is.....NEVER!!!! since many companies are now making very good sounding low watt tube amps....everyone can get that tube sound and not violate noise ordinanaces. and many of these amps are now extremely affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 How many time do we have to do this ? In the 60's Standel ,Vox , Fender, Acoustic and a lot more I can't think of all tried to replace tube amp with SS. 70;s Fender,Sunn ,G & K, ect. 80's /90, 2000 same thing over and over again. Now we have Modeling amps they sound OK but still don;t respond like a tube amp. I think SS amps have their place but they will not replace tube amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Do you thing with all the new ways of modelling SS amps that tube amps are doomed to extinction in the near future? No. Tubes kick ass. SS is great for cleans but tubes are great for everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mygolfcart123 Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 The ONLY thing I think that even comes close to tubes in a solid state design is the axe fx! And even THAT is NOT a tube amp! But yet it costs $2,000.00! About the price of a good 2 x12 tube amp. No, I do not think the tube amp will be replaced. It will still be around when a lot of these modeling devices have bitten the dust! What I do think is possible is that modeling will become better and better, but as someone pointed out, the purpose of modeling is simply to EQUAL tube amps...not REPLACE them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 They were obsolete and then they were brought back by popular demand. No matter how good modeling gets, I think there will always be the purists who insist on valve amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Macintoshmaster Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 They were obsolete and then they were brought back by popular demand. No matter how good modeling gets, I think there will always be the purists who insist on valve amps. Like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ΨWindingΨ Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 No, but more hybrids will appear. Digital and Tube amps are already around. There well always be those who prefer the glow and craftsmanship of a nice tube amp. Think if it this way. Most all fly rods made and either fiberglass or graphite, but the true works of art and the split bambo rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted October 20, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 No. Tubes kick ass. SS is great for cleans but tubes are great for everything else. What you say is true, mostly. SS amps also have controls that can make them sound very close to tube amps. Of course some are very poor at this. One of the things I didn't put in my OP was the improvement of effects pedals. If they continue to improve over the next 5 years or so like they have in the last 5 years, there should be very few sounds that they can't produce. Any thoughts on this? Regards, Flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StevenJM Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 with brands like sovtek selling tubes, and GT, which are specifically made for guitar amps, i don't see them vanishing anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kulardenu Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Even a MP3 digital (ipod etc...) player sounds amazingly better through a well balance tube stereo amplifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D-log Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Given that there's already a niche market for boutique tube amps, and that the demand is still great decades after they were introduced and became "obsolete", I strongly doubt it. There are still plenty of builders and repairer's around and coming up, and I don't really see a lot of newer players preferring solid state amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Klash Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Never. Just like a digital piano will never make the acoustic piano irrelevant, or a string sample will never make a real violin irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DavidMgT Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 I suspect that will occur when non-tube amps can sound as good or better. In other words, not anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamdogg Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 tube amps were immortalized the moment slash plugged into that tricked out marshall he tried to steal from SIR. actually it was well before that - i just wanted to work slash into the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invader.CC Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Think of some of the modern technology on the market now..The Line 6 Variax guitar the Gibson Robot the Fender VG..They are all very cool in innovative..But the majority of guitar players prefer the technology of the past.. I have owned Modeling amps and as others have said it did a good job of coping the amp it was based on ..No it was not exact ..But to the untrained ear it would not be recognizable. With that said it ended up sitting and not getting played because i would rather mold my own sound around a vintage tube Marshall.. I think many are like me and i do not think this will change in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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