A breath of fresh air...

[Lee Flier]

Stumbled across this the other day, written by a musician and songwriter, and it was one of the best little articles I've seen in awhile.

 

The Top 10 Reasons I Hate Year End Top 10 Lists

 

I hear this from people all the time: They love top-10 lists because it helps them discover new music, as if discovering new music was some epic, heroic quest. I wonder--did they listen thoroughly to every record they bought last year? Did they listen to them all the way through, even? The people making records are still spending months and years on them, while the people buying them are munching through them like corn chips. Slow down.

 

Amen.

 

Lots and lots of gems herein.

[the stranger]

?1. Ranking things in order of how much you like them is a coping strategy of 9-year-old girls. I know people like to make top-10 lists because they're fun and easy, and people like to read them for the same reason, but that's Entertainment Tonight reasoning. Year-end top-10 lists are the unicorn stickers and glitter pens of music writing.

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

Good points indeed! :phil:

[halfnote]

I've never, as an adult, really understood the rather arbitrary grouping of lists of items categorized by year/decade/etc.

I know there's gotta be some categorization but it seems---except for actual awards--- that there'd be a more rational approach.

Consider "The Best Guitarists of the 1960s"; in reality that decade would be subdivided into an early period affiliated with the 1950s, the revolution in pop music driven by the Beatles & the subsequent era of "heavy" rock music which lasted into the mid 1970s.

 

As for the point of evaluation by list compilers, the comments offered above are spot on.

The only real value these things offer is a rough estimation of mass popularity.

Selcom do we see such lists compiled from those actually active in some area (back to awards).

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

I've never, as an adult, really understood the rather arbitrary grouping of lists of items categorized by year/decade/etc.

 

 

Me neither. The start-end dates of a decade are completely arbitrary and irrelevant to actual social trends. The '60s are a great example, but look at the '80s as well. You started out still immersed in a late-70s disco culture, and ended on the fringe of grunge that carried well into the '90s, with a lot of stuff (new wave, soft rock, hair metal, etc.) in between.

[Ara Ajizian]

Thanks for posting this Lee. He's dead-on.

[D Charles]

Thanks Lee,

 

I agree, lists are for taking to the grocery.

[coyote-1]

Yes he is. But no, he's not.

 

 

Thanks for posting this Lee. He's dead-on.

 

 

I utterly loathe the short attention span that has overtaken the world. I would love to see folk once again consider listening to music an activity, rather than having music be a mere extemporal background to their latest tweets and facebook updates.

 

But the audience is under no obligation to fulfill that wish. And frankly, there is so much music out there that devoting real time to any one bit of it could be seen as foolish.

[Jeff da Weasel]

And frankly, there is so much music out there that devoting real time to any one bit of it could be seen as foolish.

 

I don't know about you, but I still only listen to one song at a time. I don't feel like it's foolish at all. Granted, when I choose something to listen to, it's at the exclusion of other things, but I do my best to both continue to experience the music I know and love, and to also try and find new things to enjoy. It's hard to keep open about it, but I'm still constantly discovering music I dig.

[the stranger]

I don't know about you, but I still only listen to one song at a time.

 

But I thought you were riding my ass about a mashup?

 

I've actually listened to 3 songs at one time. This you can only do for a short period before the chaos factor overpowers any synchronicities.

[Lee Flier]

I utterly loathe the short attention span that has overtaken the world. I would love to see folk once again consider listening to music an activity , rather than having music be a mere extemporal background to their latest tweets and facebook updates. But the audience is under no obligation to fulfill that wish.

 

No one's said the audience is under any "obligation." However it doesn't hurt to suggest it, and let people know they may be missing something.

 

And frankly, there is so much music out there that devoting real time to any one bit of it could be seen as foolish.

 

 

Quantity over quality, eh? Sounds like a great way to go through life... not.

 

Seriously, how can you say you loathe short attention spans and then make a statement like this?

[Jeff da Weasel]

But I thought you were riding my ass about a mashup?

 

A mashup is one song, if done well.

 

See Ozzy vs. A-ha with "Take Me on a Crazy Train"

[nat whilk II]

I don't agree with the slagging of list-making. There's an elitism implied that says "everyone should enjoy music the way an educated, serious, sensitive listener/musician enjoys music". Won't happen - isn't meant to happen - can't happen.

 

I'd rather people liked music the way they like soda pop rather than them not liking music at all. And they won't like it at all if they feel forced to take it all so seriously, like a graduate seminar in Edwardian literature.

 

Any teacher will tell you that the struggle is to get the average kids to listen/read/look/think/care at all about some artform or other. The kids - the tiny minority of kids - who have a serious, natural, innate interest in things don't need the Entertainment Tonight approach to spark their interest. But the normal person all too often does, unfortunately. Or maybe not so unfortunately. Not everyone is serious about everything. The dead-serious political scientist in the crowd can be a perfect Philistine when it comes to gastronomic appreciation and subtleties. Or the committed jazzer might be totally deaf to and dismissive of "books written by dead guys" and so on.

 

All of us are ignoramuses on some topics and we just indulge ourselves thoughtlessely at shallow levels like everyone else, thinking about them no further than it takes to toggle "me like" or "me no like" in conversation or at the mall. This is part of being a regular person.

 

Let'em have their lists. At least the pot is being stirred. If there are going to be lists, then let them multiply like crazy until everyone knows it's just a game of opinionizing, rather than the drawing up of holy canons.

 

The serious artists/amatuers have their lists, too - believe me. If anything, they take them more seriously than the masses do. They just don't trot them out for shallow chat-time on the boards or on the bus. I bet if the common-variety lists agreed with the elitist's judgements, you wouldn't hear the lists slagged so.

 

nat whilk ii

[veracohr]

 

I utterly loathe the short attention span that has overtaken the world. I would love to see folk once again consider listening to music an activity , rather than having music be a mere extemporal background to their latest tweets and facebook updates.

 

 

I'd say that's less a product of the people hearing it and more a product of music being everywhere.

[Anderton]

Not only do I not like Top 10 lists, I don't even like "X ways to do whatever" articles. (Yes, I know EQ runs them. That's because for whatever reason, they sell issues ).

 

I always noticed that Reader top 10 lists were always different from Critic top 10 lists. I used to think this was just because critics were more discriminating or heard more music or whatever, but found out that critics, musicians, and non-musician listeners actually listen to music with different parts of their brains and therefore react to music differently.

 

Top 10 lists work for David Letterman, but as far as music is concerned...too complex a topic to boil down into numbers. Who's the number one guitar player of all time? What the hell, I'll say "me." Just as valid as any other choice, if you base your criteria on some guy on the web saying to my daughter "You're Craig Anderton's kid? He's the world's best guitarist people haven't heard of."

 

See? I'm the world's best guitarist. The Interwebz sez so.

[Lee Knight]

The only music list I'm interested in is the one that comes after this statement: "I've been listening to some great music lately. Have you heard_____?" Recommendation from a kindred spirit.

[Jeff da Weasel]

 

Who's the number one guitar player of all time? What the hell, I'll say "me."

 

 

I was thinking Hendrix, but yeah, sure, I'll get onboard with this. Craig Anderton: the number one guitar player of all time. It has a ring to it.

[UstadKhanAli]

Oh, weird...I thought it was me. But Anderton, Hendrix, whoever, that's fine.

 

If lists get people thinking and discussing things, I suppose it's all good. It's just one person's opinion, and it's doubtful that any of us would completely agree with the list, assuming that we would even make one, but that's part of the fun of it.

[D Charles]

Mr. nat whilk ii, you actually have some wise words and thoughts. Quite liked and agree with a lot of your post. I think Lee posted to her peers on this board, not the unwashed masses though.

 

Craig and Ken, get out of town because of course, I am the greatest guitarist of all time! :-D

[nat whilk II]

 

Mr. nat whilk ii, you actually have some wise words and thoughts. Quite liked and agree with a lot of your post. I think Lee posted to her peers on this board, not the unwashed masses though.

 

 

Thx for the compliment!

 

I do think the author of the piece, Mr Roderick, altho he titled the piece..I Hate Top 10 Lists, he did manage to universalize the issue with the grand conclusion that Top 10 Lists [apparently of every type imaginable] "make the world a shabbier place."

 

Well, it is a Seattle publication and an artsy one to boot, so a certain snarky condescending edge is standard option:) Don't get me wrong - Seattle and the Pacific Northwest is where I'd live in a heartbeat if I won the lottery. But really, the attitude is laid on a bit thick methinks...couldn't let it go unchallenged.

 

Note that I didn't say "I like those lists" either. I don't particularly, even 'tho I read them sometimes. But my personal standard is not up to the task of serving as everyone else's standard, also.

 

nat whilk ii

[Raymar]

Not only do I listen to all the tunes on the music I buy but I listen to the albums(pick your format) repeatedly and then re-discover them over the years and re-listen to them. I really don't need to purchase any new music at all but I do sometimes and there's a long list of stuff I want in multiple genres of varying eras that aren't new at all, and they would all be worth repeated listenings. To compound that I write my own stuff too.

[MrKnobs]

The people making records are still spending months and years on them, while the people buying them are munching through them like corn chips. Slow down.

 

I really don't need to purchase any new music at all

 

Anyone see the problem here (spelled out in Raymar's quote) if everyone takes the advice in the first quote?

 

Terry D.

[veracohr]

Anyone see the problem here (spelled out in Raymar's quote) if everyone takes the advice in the first quote?

 

Terry is of course suggesting that if everyone slowed down enough to listen to their music, music sales would cease to exist.

 

Disregarding for the moment the aspect of changing music formats (physical/downlodable):

 

The notion that one could continue to re-discover music from their past, and not "need" to get new music (the "they just don't make it like they used to" approach), is really nothing new. People heavily identify with the music they listened to in their younger (emotionally-developmental) days and most (after some indeterminate age) have difficulty "getting" new styles.

 

The thing is, older people sticking to the music they know and like really doesn't have much effect on overall music consumption (again, disregarding whether it's purchased or acquired by...other means..) Young people will always have an appetite for new styles. That's one of the hallmarks of youth - seeking that which is new and unexplored. So while older people may have the money to purchase music, it's the younger people who have the larger appetite for it.

 

This is generally speaking of course. But it's the rare person who remains truly open to new music as they get older. I know when I was younger I always told myself that I didn't want to get stuck in my musical path. That I wanted to remain open. Yet I see myself going down the usual path as I get older, having a harder and harder time getting into new music. And I'm only 31. I remember when I was a teenager a friend's mother came to us asking for some new music suggestions. She said she was concerned that all the music she listened to was 30 years old. I thought that was cool (but I thought everything she did was cool because I had the hots for her ), but in hindsight the one artist she ended up really liking wasn't that different from her 30-year old music - Blind Melon. Just kind of a revamp on the hippie rock style.

 

I know this is veering from the original topic but I think these comments merit response. We should all remember that despite our own approaches to music, the world will continue to have those who stick to the old, those who devour the new and a combination of both. While the music industry may change, these trends are unlikely to.

 

Hmmm.....did I make a point here? I know I started with one but I'm not sure i finished with one.

[the stranger]

A mashup is one song, if done well. See Ozzy vs. A-ha with "Take Me on a Crazy Train"

 

I can't even imagine how much weed was involved in the creation of that.

[Raymar]

I remember when I was younger buying LPs and found myself selling a lot them used to this record store in Tustin. In my mid-twenties something clicked for me and I found myself buying music that wasn't disposable. Now I have a good sized collection of stuff in different genres that just happens to have a very long shelf life. I do catch new music on the tube, radio and internet but its rare I hear something that I just have to buy. Another thing to consider is that a good deal of rock, hip-hop, rap, etc., is geared for teens and they won't be listening to it after they graduate. Also there's a great deal of good stuff for me to buy that I missed out on due to ignorance from my past and long before my past, and in this modern age we have Netflix. We can rent music these days that we missed out on.