So How good is amp modeling these days?

[radomu]

 

... is one of those ... a Mk 1 AD120VT, using a Marshall Bluesbreaker patch for the soloing and a Twin model for the rhythm under the harmonica solos -- shot live on somebody's phone at a Friday night bar gig with Crosstown Lightnin'. I make no claims for the playing -- there are a coupla clams in there -- but I like the tones, and I'm very happy to gig with this amp. (My OTHER amp is a 1969 SF Fender Super Reverb.)

 

 

pretty good

[humbuckerstrat]

1:40 gives me boner.

This guy's amazing, he's a one-man recording studio with that modeling gear

[MoreGuitars]

I've been using modeling for years. From a convenience point, you can't beat it. I think the sound is passable, the feel is where I think it lacks. I saw a Fender Mustang Demo at the NAMM show. I was very impressed, especially how it responded to fluctuations in the the volume change on the guitar. Need to try one out a bit. They sure have priced these right.

[wagdog]

I find that my mustang 1, recorded direct via USB sounds better then any of my other attempts to record my tube amps via a microphone.

I attribute that to the fact that I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to recording, period, I don't have a great mic/recording setup, and I'm in my basement.

Whatever, the mustang 1 makes it possible for me to record and get some great tones - can't ask for more!

[scuzzo]

heck, with really weird stuff, im not even sure where i would even begin to construct the signal path..

his has two guitars... one a fuzz tone reverse, and the second some sorta synth pad in reverse..

i have no idea what pedals would do it.. perhaps a pog and a reverse delay and some sorta fuzz tone..

but when you add the amp to the mix you start getting more and more convoluted..

 

NaZcahttp://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=902285&songID=9356098

 

or this

 

Mid-evilhttp://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=902285&songID=7959066

 

im pretty sure that the signal noise on this would really detract from the idea if i was to use real pedals..

and again in not eve sure i could get there with real world gear.. that strat tone is so transparent that any signal noise would make it fall...

and and this was done pre-production.. just two guitars.. not sure how easy it would be to get there with real world amps.. and analog recording gear..

some sorta roland JC >clear boost>compressed>reversedelay.. models this sorta expermentation alot more productive.. from a guitars hack perspective.. mho

[Willyguitar]

The Vox Valvetronix are very very good for the money, and do a good job. The line 6 gearbox modelling stuff is also great for recording and very cheap - the differences are not that noticeable on recordings at all.

Having said that, I think playing through a good valve amp LIVE is a different matter - and will normally be more satisfying and probably sound richer than most modelling amps, on average - at least that is what i have found... when playing smallish gigs.

So, I would go modelling for recording (it's just so much easier and more convenient), and good valve amp for yer live stuff, depending on what exactly you are doing of course.

[Arr0wHead]

amp modeling - digital emulating guitar amps : Fender Mustang, Roland Cube, Vox Valvetronix intergrated with guitar-specific speakers or amp modeling - digital emulating pedals : POD, BOSS Multi, Digitech RP-series, etc - designed to plug into standard guitar amps or neutral (FRFR) amps or Studio Monitors or amp modeling - digital emulating vst plugs : AmpFarm, Vandal, Amplitube - designed for recording direct into ProTools, Sonar or the like seems like we're talking about 3 different animals here for me, I'm having the best tones these days using a couple of models of my Adrenalinn pedal into my DAW followed by a speaker IR emulation to "round" out the timbre

 

 

 

 

 

There ARE currently 3 types of modeling dominating the market, usually referred to as generation 1,2, and 3. However, it's about how they MODEL the amp, not the delivery method. Doesn't matter if it's a VST, pedal, or amp. The modeling itself is done long before they put it into a product. The big difference is how they actually value/model the ORIGINAL amp. Then it's just a matter of making sure they have enough processing power to recreate it.

[satannica]

Real world perspective gained from my Pod XT, Pod HD500 and 15 years of recording/gig/sound engineering experiences.

 

I loved my Pod XT. Simple, quiet and sounded great for laying guide tracks. I changed for the HD500 simply due to cost; I didn't want loads of pedals anymore, just a straight decent multi effect box. I originally wanted an M13, but prices on those went stupid and the HD500 has all the same effects, built in expression pedal too and 16 uber amp models to boot.

 

To be honest, some of the guide tracks I've done with the HD500, I initially thought I'd be perfectly confident in leaving them as final takes. Until it came to mixing; the problem I have with most of these modelers is they are not nice things to mix with. Also, after recording a real amp, the HD500 paled in comparison.

 

Live, it doesn't work. It just doesn't. We had a gig a few weeks back and I had my HD500 set up 4CM with my amp. The sound guy suggested that he take a DI straight from the pod (he was being lazy). I agreed to try it and set up a Marshall JCM800 patch. I went out front, sounded pretty good. Thick, punchy, everything I'd want. However, add the band in, it was lost. In fact, I just stopped playing and nobody noticed. I tried a few different patches, but as soon as my band-mate came in with his Mesa, it disappeared. No matter how low he put his amp, you couldn't hear the Pod. I then told the sound guy to mic me up as normal, much to his behest. I'm glad I had a buddy mixing us for the night, I was sure he was going to sabotage us.

 

We tried it again next rehearsal, this time armed with a laptop, some tones from custom tone and a few different patches I'd made up. All of them sounded great through the PA, a mixture of rock tones through to gained out metal tones, even clean tones. We tried my Peavey and Mesa separately. Every time, the pod through the PA would disappear regardless of what amp was being used and especially with a full band.

 

In fairness though, if I plugged the pod directly into a power amp, either the Marshall EL34 my buddy has, or into the FX return of the Peavey, there was not a comparable problem. The Pod did well!

 

For me, true amp modeling is still a no as I would expect to be able to plug in and go. However, you just cannot yet beat the sound of air moving from a speaker cabinet. Modeler + power amp = sure thing. Modeler direct to PA = nope!

 

I still like my HD500 though and the functions I bought it for, it still does it admirably! That is recording guide tracks in the studio, or as a good effect box for live use.

 

Plus in the rare instance my Peavey goes south on me on a gig, I have a setlist made up with amp models that will get me through the night, whether I have to go into a PA or if I can get someone to lend me an amp head, with or without an FX return (the pod has functions for both). Though I will need to test this properly at a few rehearsals to ensure it will work properly.

[crashclc]

Well as you can see from the clips, you can get great tones with the more modern floor processors (GT10 etc) and I am completely happy with exactly the same setup as ORBM (guitar -> GT10 -> Power Engine (60w 4x10)). I have used the 4CM with my tube amps and overall did not like it very much because as the dude said on the clip, the amp/preamp changes the sound. In my experience it ends up kind of muddy - which is the standard knock against digital modelers in general.

 

The Power Engine doesn't color the sound, so what comes out in the room or on stage is pretty much what you would hear listening to the internal speaker model through a decent pair of studio cans. I like that a lot and I don't "get" why so many people seem to have trouble getting their output levels to match - but then I am a technology geek. You can do quite amazing things with this technology, but anyone who expects to just open the box and rip away on it is probably going to be disappointed. The manuals suck, but seriously... be prepared to read them if you want to get those killer sounds you see in the demos.

 

The real "problem" with the floor processors (especially in a live situation) is that you DO need to do some pre-planning on the patches you're going to use in your set - AND - (at least in the case of the GT10) you absolutely need to get really practiced at navigating the patch banks and effects. There are four patch pedals, two control pedals, two bank navigation pedals and an expression pedal. It is REALLY easy to hit the wrong one and get that turd in the punchbowl effect you don't want. I have had mine since a month after they went on sale and I know I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do.

[Jarick]

Got my clip recorded:

Caveats:

It sounded darker on the recording than it did on the amp, but I didn't add any EQ/compression/etc to adjust it.

I'm a drummer, not a guitarist, so of course take the playing with the grain of salt.

Stock humbuckers are pretty decent, but kind of hot (especially the bridge). I've got some GFS P90's on the way to compare afterwards.

I really like the Twin and Bassman models. The high gain ones I barely use. I pretty much just used the stock amp models without much tweaking and set gain/volume/sag.

[everlight44]

I'm normally an analog guy, but modeling sounds pretty close and is a whole lot cheaper than having all those amps and pedals. My RP500 doesn't sound the exact same as a JCM800, Peavey 5150 II, or Dual Rectifier. However, it is in the ballpark, and when in a mix with other instruments it sounds just fine. The Roland Cube I had sounded excellent as well.

 

If you know exactly what sound you want purchasing that amplifier would be a good investment. Otherwise, modeling is a cheaper alternative that sounds nearly as good.

[lp_junkie]

Here is a demo done with a Digitech GSP1101 rack processor on the guitars and Sans Amp RBI for the bass guitar, drums were my Alesis SR16.
The guitar on this song was my 86 Charvel San Dimas.

2011 Beggar's Ball demos

[jds22]

Caveats: It sounded darker on the recording than it did on the amp, but I didn't add any EQ/compression/etc to adjust it. I'm a drummer, not a guitarist, so of course take the playing with the grain of salt. Stock humbuckers are pretty decent, but kind of hot (especially the bridge). I've got some GFS P90's on the way to compare afterwards. I really like the Twin and Bassman models. The high gain ones I barely use. I pretty much just used the stock amp models without much tweaking and set gain/volume/sag.

 

 

Awesome. I'm really gassin' for one of these now.

[6StringSling]

 

I have an HD500 now and I couldn't be any happier with it, so I think pretty highly of modeling now.

 

Just got my HD500 3 weeks ago and it is so far above my old XT Live. My KJ was kind of skeptical when I told him that he'd be blown away by the new board - he thought my tones were great with the XT Live. His perception is now permanently altered.

[Tubefox]

In my experience modeling amps have pretty good cleans, decent ODs/small amounts of distortion, but HORRIBLE high-gain settings.

For example, the Line 6 Insane tone is...unpleasant.

[StevenJM]

my band just recorded 6 songs and we used a mix of amplitube and real amps... i feel like amplitube got pretty damn close with the fender settings, the '59 bassman sounded identical to my real '59 bassman RI. so it was perfect for over dubbing certain parts later.

[Jarick]

I tried to compare it to:

 

 

 

 

 

I thought it got pretty close in person, but the USB recording was a little dark compared to the stock speaker. Which is fine, since the P90's I'll put in will be brighter.

[jds22]

Just got my HD500 3 weeks ago and it is so far above my old XT Live. My KJ was kind of skeptical when I told him that he'd be blown away by the new board - he thought my tones were great with the XT Live. His perception is now permanently altered.

 

 

I'm hoping L6 puts their new HD technology into an amp. Something similar to the Spider line. Their new DT amps are way out of my price range.

[Arr0wHead]

 

In my experience modeling amps have pretty good cleans, decent ODs/small amounts of distortion, but HORRIBLE high-gain settings. For example, the Line 6 Insane tone is...unpleasant.

 

 

 

 

Using an example of ten year old modeling technology to answer the question "how good is amp modeling these days" is the reason most people are completely uneducated on the quality of modern modeling. Every line 6 unit up til the HD series uses the SAME outdated first generation modeling technology the company started with. Current modelers are considered third generation, with some upcoming devices claiming to be fourth.

[cratz2]

You guys really should listen to the test clips Eddie linked to on the first page. Honestly, regardless of your personal experience and how the amp 'feels' they modelers are so close in recorded clips that record producers can't always agree which are real and which are sims and if the amps are better than the sims.

 

Again, feel has a lot to do with it, but as far as the sound of modeling technology, it's here and it's good. Period.

[StevenJM]

 

You guys really should listen to the test clips Eddie linked to on the first page. Honestly, regardless of your personal experience and how the amp 'feels' they modelers are so close in recorded clips that record producers can't always agree which are real and which are sims and if the amps are better than the sims. Again, feel has a lot to do with it, but as far as the sound of modeling technology, it's here and it's good. Period.

 

 

i feel like amplitube has nailed the tone you get from a RECORDED guitar amp... i have amplitube and line 6 pod farm on my computer, and i feel like Line 6 gets you the tone your ear hears from an amp, where amplitube gets you the tone that a microphone actually gets from an amp.

[Cyprusg]

It's definitely hard to tell sometimes which is a modeled amp and which is the real thing but I can tell you as someone that owns a POD, Boss GT8, Amplitube, and Guitar Rig, I HATE AMP SIMS. I want to love them because they're so much more convenient but they do nothing for me. I'll plug in, record something on one of the best preamps money can buy and I'm still like "ugh" when I listen to it. If people love their amp sims more power to them, but for me nothing beats the real thing, and when you've got the tone you want you're just going to play that much better and that's what it's all about.

[cratz2]

 

It's definitely hard to tell sometimes which is a modeled amp and which is the real thing but I can tell you as someone that owns a POD, Boss GT8, Amplitube, and Guitar Rig, I HATE AMP SIMS. I want to love them because they're so much more convenient but they do nothing for me. I'll plug in, record something on one of the best preamps money can buy and I'm still like "ugh" when I listen to it. If people love their amp sims more power to them, but for me nothing beats the real thing, and when you've got the tone you want you're just going to play that much better and that's what it's all about.

 

 

Seriously though... can you tell a radical difference in the recorded tone? Not the live tone while you are playing or the feel...

 

Did you try the Marshall clips that Eddie linked to on the first page? It's worth listening to, then watch the 5 minute video on the producers discussing which they thought were the real amps vs the modelers.

 

Interesting stuff, even if you have made your decision about what works for you.

[soundcreation]

This is a pretty good clip...

 

 

 

I'd say it's so close that if this test were blind people here wouldn't be able to tell. I think the real marshall sounds better...tighter and more focused...but really it's pretty {censored}ing close. And who knows if that factor is something that could messed with in amplitube.

 

I'm starting to think with my room situation being kind of crap I might want to record with these software packs. But I love the sound of my tube amp. I just don't know if I can record it.

[Kevman]

 

 

Pete, the band sounds great. That is fun stuff! Do BYTOR!!!!

 

As far as modeling is concerned, IMO it's a valid, reasonable option. After tube, SS and modeling setups over the years I am going back to modeling for my live rig. I am already converted for recording. 9 times out of 10 I'll bag on trying to get a decent recorded tone out of a cab-mic setup and just plug my 1999 digitech RP-100 direct in and getting a good tone.