Members Jeff da Weasel Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 My "this" is a substitute for "I agree", "+1", or anything that would resemble a head-nod were we standing next to each other. Would it be more appropriate to re-type the entire sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Quick question; Were you guys huge fans of Billy Ray Cirus and Milli Vannilli till everyone turned on them, then you couldn't stand them either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 My "this" is a substitute for "I agree", "+1", or anything that would resemble a head-nod were we standing next to each other. Would it be more appropriate to re-type the entire sentence? Yes, re-type it in your way with a nice little addition from yourself, that is the correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted July 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 26, 2011 My "this" is a substitute for "I agree", "+1", or anything that would resemble a head-nod were we standing next to each other. Would it be more appropriate to re-type the entire sentence? My "this" is a substitute for "I agree", "+1", or anything that would resemble a head-nod were we standing next to each other. Would it be more appropriate to re-type the entire sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Me too. To me it means, "just sayin." Terry D. Only because of your big {censored} eating grin in the avatar does the multitude of shrug guys in this single post make me smile. But otherwise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 My "this" is a substitute for "I agree", "+1", or anything that would resemble a head-nod were we standing next to each other. Would it be more appropriate to re-type the entire sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 I would be the last to deny my own culpability for my addiction to alcohol.Did it sound like I was making excuses for myself? Or for anyone else -- including those who have died as a result of their addiction? Do you read what people write before you post your "responses" to it? You have your definition of what a disease is and the medical profession has theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Again -- and I'm only going to say this twenty or thirty more times -- when the medical profession calls something a disease they are not doing so to give people excuses for self-destructive behaviors -- they are making a hard-headed, objective description of what is going on. I'm finding it difficult to understand that you have missed the many statements from me and others carefully noting that personal choices do play a big part in so-called lifestyle diseases. I guess by you and urca's definition, my father's mouth, throat, and lung cancer was just a figment of his imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Yes, I'm with you on this. She did not want... It were almost as if her career was an adjunct to her habits and on that basis it is very hard for me to see this as a tragedy. It almost seemed to be wished for on her part. Who would say that the fans who went to the concerts of her last aborted tour who got to watch her stumbling around, not singing or forgetting the lyrics were well served by this artist? And you can be sure that in general I do not judge people's habits, especially musicians, if they serve their muse and their fans but Ms. Winehouse seemed to be so self involved and so out of it almost all of the time, that music was only a path to oblivion, not an art form. Should we admire this? You don't like her music, others do. But, whether you believe it or not -- you are not the final arbiter of what is of value in art. Neither is urca, "Paul"/Rudy/Angelo, me, or any other individual. And -- by the way -- to you and all the others who seem to think that "Rehab" is a celebration of addiction, I think you ought pay attention to what is going on in the song. It is darkly sardonic and written from the point of view of an addict resisting help -- but the protagonist in the song clearly states, "I don't ever wanna drink again." Those who confuse art -- even autobiographical art -- for direct statements of sentiment have seemed to fail to learn one of the most fundamental functions of art -- to abstract the universal from the particular. Seriously, some of you guys just seem willfully dense. And that is a decision, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 I have nothing against Ms. Winehouse and I'm sorry that she died, whatever the cause. She chose the first doses of her drugs then they started choosing her. She tossed the dice and it turned out she was one of the unlucky ones who had the genes for addiction. That's the chance we all take when we drink, snort a line, view internet porn, or even post on a forum. No judgement from me. I do think, though, that a certain type of creativity is born from misery, or at least speaks with authority due to suffering and internal conflict / madness. If you were able to remove that inherent conflict from the person I think that in many cases that person would have nothing further of interest to say, or at least no longer have the strong desire to say it which would amount to the same thing from our outside viewpoint. Of course not every miserable person manages to do anything of abiding interest, to be sure. I find it interesting that sometimes a person (no one in this thread) will deride white blues artists for being somehow "non-authentic" since they're singing tunes about suffering that somehow (in the view of the person making this claim) is related to race / poverty / etc. Then that same person will argue that someone like Ms. Winehouse would have been just as creative and driven if she had not lived with her personal demons. Seems to me like these are contradictory statements. Terry D. I always have a problem when someone says a person of a given color can't be a legitimate artist in a certain genre, whether it's Charlie Pride or Eminem or anyone else. [ADDENDUM: Or that Ray Charles was any less 'legitimate' when singing country than he was singing blues. I am personally charmed by both. I'm told that I might not have appreciated some aspects of Mr Charles personality -- just as I probably wouldn't have appreciated many aspects of Frank Sinatra's -- but I have nonetheless derived enormous satisfaction from their artistic endeavors -- just as I did from the unfortunate Ms Winehouse.] But, of course, there are people who don't seem to rise to the music they're working in -- but that doesn't have anything, I don't think, to do with the color of one's skin. And, of course, my view on that is informed by the fact that I've had plenty of exposure to fine blues artists of many cultures and colors. It's what's inside that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thanks, guys, that definitely brightened the thread for me. I was getting a little, shall we say, intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Quick question; Were you guys huge fans of Billy Ray Cirus and Milli Vannilli till everyone turned on them, then you couldn't stand them either?Cyrus seems like a really solid citizen, a good guy, but, no, I never liked his music from the start. But there's much in modern country [and, yes, I know, "Achy Breaky" was a long time ago] that I really don't have much use for -- though I love old country, and even a bit of that odd, country pop stuff from the 60s -- there were some great singers in the field, or, I should be careful to say, singers I think were great. For a second, I thought you were talking about Vanilla Ice, there (they're lumped together in my head, but shouldn't be). I didn't have any use for Milli Vanilli when they came out -- nor do I have any use for their music -- but I thought there was something rather poignant about them thinking they were the beneficiaries of 'studio magic' (they apparently did not realize their voices never made it into the final mix, as I understood it -- but then I'm not really a Milli vanilli expert). Vanilla Ice, I think, had some talent, got hooked up with the right backtracks and amused a lot of folks, but I can't say he ever reached me. And, I would have to say, he did seem quite contrived to me. (Of course, I'm the one who has effectively brought Vanilla Ice into the discussion -- although I was specifically thinking about him when I was considering what Terry said.) But then I think there are a huge number of quite contrived black hip hop and rap artists -- many of whom have sung about stuff they never lived. The same, of course, can be said of many rockers and plenty of country and blues artists. And -- in fact -- I have written songs from the character point of view of fictional characters whose lives I never lived, including homeless people and political assassins. So, you know... it goes back to what I was saying some posts above about the function of art to abstract the general from the specific, sometimes dealing with autobiography and sometimes with the fictional. Unfortunately, for some, the pose is carried on outside the work of art. And at that point, questions of legitimacy seem pertinent. To cast it in the specific: I think it's one thing to write a song from the point of view of a Navy Seal -- but a whole different thing to pretend to be one in real life. Yes? And, finally, it must be said, while my tastes in genres are quite wide -- once we get down to particulars (as anyone who has ever discussed rock or new wave with me probably understands), my tastes become quite specific and I can be quite aesthetically judgmental. I have to try to be careful to point out that I'm speaking just of my own tastes and that they are personal and subjective, and that any music that anyone enjoys is, in a very real sense, for them, good music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 People die all the time at all ages and there are many musicians in the world. The fact that a few, and there are relatively few, (though they are famous and therefore noticeable), died at age 27 is really just a statistical anomaly that we notice because we follow the lives of these people. It has no significance at all. However, if you must..... There have probably been as many early deaths of musicians at just at ALL ages as there were at age 27. It wouldn't be significant at all except for the fact that 4 of the biggest early deaths (Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison and later Cobain) happened at that age. But when you factor in all the many, many other musicians who died way too young at other ages, "27" doesn't seem all that special, really. But once we start paying attention to it---like the frequency of the number "23" or other similar anomolies---it will now always generate special attention that other numbers do not. You can play this game with any number, really. When I was younger (before I had ever heard about the "23" thing) a group of friends and myself believed that we saw the number "61" (part of the reason it is in my moniker) more than any other. It seemed to come up EVERYWHERE. When you LOOK for something, you'll find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Richard King Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 You can play this game with any number, really. When I was younger (before I had ever heard about the "23" thing) a group of friends and myself believed that we saw the number "61" (part of the reason it is in my moniker) more than any other. It seemed to come up EVERYWHERE. When you LOOK for something, you'll find it. Hey.... be careful, that's me (well, until next month). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roomjello Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks, guys, that definitely brightened the thread for me. I was getting a little, shall we say, intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Me too. To me it means, "just sayin." Terry D. This. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Again -- and I'm only going to say this twenty or thirty more times -- when the medical profession calls something a disease they are not doing so to give people excuses for self-destructive behaviors -- they are making a hard-headed, objective description of what is going on.I'm finding it difficult to understand that you have missed the many statements from me and others carefully noting that personal choices do play a big part in so-called lifestyle diseases.I guess by you and urca's definition, my father's mouth, throat, and lung cancer was just a figment of his imagination. I understand what you and the medical profession are saying, I just disagree. Diabetes runs in my family but my everyday choices either hinder or hasten that disease from becoming a reality in my life. Mrs. Whitehouse chose to ingest her drug of choice over and over. She did not seek help. She wrote songs about it which I guess helped her in some way but at the end of the day, her entire crew from road manager to agent were all partly responsible for her death. Where was the intervention? Seems to me that people saw $$$ instead of a young woman who had an addiction and needed help. Granted, you cannot force anyone to do something but the girl had her contacts to get the drugs she needed and being surrounded by her own posse meant that someone in that crew was passing the stuff along to her. You cannot tell me these are not everyday choices. The body craves these drugs (alcohol, drugs, porn) and it is up to the individual to make the change. Calling this self induced state a disease is wrong to me. It is a self induced chemical dependence. As for your father, I take the same stand, if he decided to smoke everyday, he was taking his chances. Some GIs chose not to smoke those cigarettes, some chose to. I do not consider smoking a disease. Someone who craves an adrenaline rush and who dies while trying to cross the Grand Canyon over a tight rope does not have a disease, they chose an outlet that was dangerous to their health. Its a choice. We can sit here and debate all day but the fact is, no one is forcing us to drink or to shoot up or watch porn, one does that on their own. If you decide to overindulge in these things, your brain wants more of the chemicals released during these activities and it returns to where it knows it can get that release. Just as the brain learned the addiction, it can reprogram itself into something healthier. Easy? No. Calling it a disease is the easy way out IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 That. Hey, Ernest, sorry I got frustrated. I'm pretty sure you now understand that I wasn't in any way trying to make excuses for self-destructive behavior, whether Winehouse's, my own, or my WWII GI father taking up Uncle Sam on those free packs of smokes. Anyone who still doesn't get where I was/am coming from on that issue should probably just take a quick survey of modern medical literature on addiction. PS... I find myself writing just sayin' from time to time. I like it because it seems to imply that everyone knows what you're not actually saying explicitly... but, of course, you're on the internet, a lot of times a lot of folks really don't know what you're... just sayin'. I love throwing fat on the fire with intentionally ambiguous multi-level irony. How could anyone find that problematic or annoying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 That. Hey, Ernest, sorry I got frustrated. I'm pretty sure you now understand that I wasn't in any way trying to make excuses for self-destructive behavior, whether Winehouse's, my own, or my WWII GI father taking up Uncle Sam on those free packs of smokes. Anyone who still doesn't get where I was/am coming from on that issue should probably just take a quick survey of modern medical literature on addiction. I get it mate. Again, I don`t think anyone on this forum doesn`t get it, we just may disagree. My grandfather smoked... my mother did until several years ago... she eventually stopped. It was not easy. I saw her struggle. I saw her body completely change as well. She gained lots of weight after she quit. I think she ate her way through withdrawal. That led to weight issues... I`m not trying to make light of any addiction, I just disagree with calling it a disease. I think we can all agree its a chemical craving that the body wants and believes it needs. Its 3a EST... we both obviously have our own sleep disorders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Pick your poison, we all will leave this mortal coil sooner or later. Boo effin' hoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 it's called choice to stay up late or being nocturnal, not a disease fer crine o' loude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urca Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 You have your definition of what a disease is and the medical profession has theirs. Of course the medical profession uses that definition so they can make a boatload of $$$$$ off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urca Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Maybe you haven't seen someone go into convulsions after stopping heroin, or nearly die from seizures after quitting drinking cold turkey. But I've seen both. Maybe they just weren't trying hard enough. At least they had the option of "stopping" or "quitting". Maybe you haven't seen a loved one waste away and die (not "nearly die") from cancer, which they couldn't stop or quit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samtrips Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 At least they had the option of "stopping" or "quitting". Maybe you haven't seen a loved one waste away and die (not "nearly die") from cancer, which they couldn't stop or quit..... Ouch. You sound like a petulant teenager - MY life's worse, because I saw someone dying of cancer. YOU only saw someone withdrawing from drugs, mine was FAR worse. Jeez. It's all bad. Dying is dying, regardless of how you do it (and correct me if I'm wrong, we haven't even seen the results of the Winehouse post mortem?). It's all horrible. I had a friend commit suicide last week because of insistent depression. I don't feel the need to rank his death next to everybody else's on the who's to blame/gravitas axis, it's not an interesting or enlightening graph to render. He's gone, and nothing's going to bring him back. No matter how you go, it's a sad thing for someone who was once full of life, to suddenly be an empty body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Weird how you all ended up bickering over her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.