"You get what you pay for"

[Mr_GoodBomb]

I wanted to throw this out because I know how this forum feels about cheap instruments and decent quality service. We've had good experiences with low-cost items to the degree that, if we find something of sub quality or poor service, we're upset and generally surprised. It seems to me that, when communication is immediate and word about your business and product can get out to others of similar interest quickly, poor customer service is on it's way out, and poor products just won't last.

 

From my purchases in musical instruments, video equipment, and elsewhere, I got the distinct notion that, when everyone is competing for customers due to the internet, "you get what you pay for" is on it's way out. However, another interest of mine seems to have reminded me that the ignorant and bullheaded still reign in some regards, and that realm is firearms. Because many firearms advocates are of an age where they grew up "knowing" that US-made products were superior, brand names meant quality, and low cost alternatives were always going to be of poorer construction and have basically no customer support, that sometimes still stands in the firearm world. It seems to me that, when that audience stops accepting that cheaper products are going to be poorly made, and that only high-dollar companies are going to have decent customer service, that adage will stop being true.

 

I wanted to see what other people though.

[kayd_mon]

As long as people's favorite musicians, rock stars, etc. keep playing Gibson and Fender, they'll keep selling, regardless if there are better options for less money.

Just look at the many negative posts about Gibson quality control - and count the number of dud Gibsons you've played at guitar stores... now compare that to sales. They still keep selling. That said, a non-dud Gibson is one of the most desirable guitars to me.

[craigny]

I''m not saying that all high price gear is worth the money, alot of stuff is overpriced, but i will say in my experience that the more expensive stuff is generally better made and plays, looks, and sounds better.

[C-4]

Nice topic.
I bought and played american guitars for 53 years. The customer service was o.k., but not outstanding. At a time when I had seven guitars from a boutique guitar maker, his customer service to me was absolutely abominable. This led me to selling off all of his guitars that I owned.
I found through my experiences that off-shore quality is as high as any american quality is or "used to be", but far more consistant. I am not speaking of lowered end gear, but rather, higher end gear. The service I have received is amazing to say the least. European builders do not forget you after the sale, unlike some american builders do.

Quality has to be there in any product, no matter where it is built, but in the end, customer service is the reason I will deal with one person over another.
Currently, I am waiting on delivery of a one-off guitar which I purchased from a NY dealer. The guitar is built overseas, and has been ready since sometime in April. Whenever I called the store, if no one answered the phone, or the email, I had to continually call or email back until I finally got someone. The guitar has been paid for since last year, well in advance of being completed. The dealer cannot even tell me when I will get this guitar! He has to pay for it prior to it being shipped, but does not know when he will do this. I will never do business with that store ever again. Yes, the company will stand by me after the sale for any problems I might encounter. Since there are many places to get a similar product, it come down to the customer service in the long run for me.

While the post about Gibson and Fender and playing what your favorite rockstar plays is true, even with all the duds made, remember that most players don't critique or scrutinize a guitar as this forum or other forum's members do. I have been able to get away fro the headstock logo thing by finding companies that for me play, feel, and sound as fine or better then the best of what america has made that I have been exposed too.

It is actually amazing to me just how great European builders are and how much more modern in concepts they are then american iconic builders, who just turn out the same old stuff year in, year out. I'm glad I did the homework to find these builders.

[kayd_mon]

On the issue of customer service, I usually buy a guitar used and perform all maintenace on it myself. Customer service is nice, for sure, but it's low on my list of concerns.

[C-4]

On the issue of customer service, I usually buy a guitar used and perform all maintenace on it myself. Customer service is nice, for sure, but it's low on my list of concerns.

 

 

Customer service to me is only important when I want something done to a guitar that needs to be sent back to the company for wear, or a broken part. The guitars that I have, will all require the company to do the work, but I know they will be there for me and the service will be fast and correctly done the first time. At least this has been my experience with the companies I deal with.

[Welladjusted]

Name brands have the ability to manipulate how they're perceived, but a small company like Godin or Egnater has to build word of mouth since they don't have the cash on hand to seduce big-name players away from the Fenders and Gibsons of the world.

[Mr_GoodBomb]

On the issue of customer service, I usually buy a guitar used and perform all maintenace on it myself. Customer service is nice, for sure, but it's low on my list of concerns.

 

 

With guitars, I guess it's less of an issue, as we can all either do our own repairs, teach ourselves, or pay someone for a fairly low cost. But when it comes to services, Ebay, PayPal, Amazon, etc, I won't buy from anywhere that doesn't have decent customer service.

[Mike Fiasco]

The US had the best quality manufacturing in the world in the 1960's. The rest of the world started catching up with us by the 1970's and 1980's. During the 70's and 80's, it became clear that US labor rates were many times higher than Japan and Korea who had the same quality labor and machining available to them. The myth that US quality is worth the extra money persisted until recently. Then came the lobbying and PR pushing BUY AMERICAN as a matter of loyalty.

The problem I have with loyalty to US workers is that they are not loyal to me. I've been disappointed with flawed US products that I overspent on just so I can ensure a US assembly worker a better standard of living than I enjoy.

[Brainfertilizer]

I've always been happy with the service I've gotten from Jon Kammerer. He responds to emails, talks to you on the phone, works with you to get pickups/configurations/etc the way you want it.

So to me, that's about the only place customer service impacts me. Since I buy mostly 20 and 30 year old guitars, they are what they are...there's no going back to the company for help.

I did recently buy 2 new guitars...but they were set up great and flawless (Parker and Cort, FWIW).

Now, as far as the question of getting what you pay for: with guitars, a good portion of what you pay for is reputation.
So if you can successfully identify guitars whose quality is better than their reputation, you absolutely can get more than you pay for.

Lots of people feel that way about Hamer: you can buy from eBay without playing them with the confidence that you are going to get a great-playing guitar.

I've now found that is true of Matsumoku-made guitars: their workmanship, materials, quality, and resulting tone and playability are far better than the cost...if you are careful.

Aria Pro II Les Pauls are well known to be as good or better than Gibson, and cost accordingly, often going for $800+ for a 30+ year old guitar. Same thing for the 70s-era Fernandes strats.

I loved Westone necks, but soured on them because their trems didn't stay in tune well...but I've since returned to them because the economy has made the price drop, and I *still* have never found any guitars with necks as good as Westone. It helps that I finally found one with a Bendmaster trem that stays mostly in tune, too.

But the real gem I've found is the Matsumoku-made Vantage guitars. All fixed bridge, so no worries about trem stability. They all have coil taps, often separate coil taps for bridge and neck pickups, so you can get a great variety of tone. 2 of the 4 I own have amazing sustain and tone like angels singing...and I haven't yet played on one of their top-of-the-line models. Low action, flat fretboards (which I like) for easy bending and speed. I've got a couple more on the way I can't wait to play on. None cost me more than $260, shipping included. And I like them as much or more than my Hamer USAs. You can't beat that, not at that price. Interestingly, all 4 in my greedy clutches right now are all in 9.8/10 condition. Better paint? Dunno...but out of 4 30-year-old guitars, I'd expect 3 to be beat up...and no less than 1 to be beat up. But none are. That implies something is going on with them...

I think the reason they are still so underpriced is that they aren't widely known as being Matsumoku, as well as Matsumoku isn't widely known for excellent quality yet. So the Aria Pro II LPs that sell for $800 is due to the credit for great quality/tone going to Aria Pro II instead of Matsumoku. That will change, I'm sure.

[Bro Blue]

I buy decent guitars to begin with. I then set up, mod, and repair them myself. I am pleased with the service I give myself. I can take a solid platform and add the spit and polish. Give me a Squier or MIM Strat and I'll have it sounding like and playing like butter.

Nothing else matters.

[PrawnHeed]

I don't remember paying for this thread. Again. And again. And again.

[Edward]

You ALWAYS get what you pay for, of that there is no doubt. Sometimes, though, what you paid the big bucks for can be a logo or headstock, sometimes it's an instrument.

[photon9]

I disagree. Sometimes you get more than you pay for and sometimes you get less. Any brand, any model, any price-point (Not just with guitars BTW).

Ultimately as long as YOU are happy with whatever it is you bought nothing else really matters.

And if you aren't happy with it, hopefully at least you learned from it.

[Guitar Heel]

One thing's for sure. This thread is going to settle the cheap guitar v. expensive guitar debate on HCEG, once and for all.

[truckdub]

This record seems to be broken.

[Elias Graves]

 

I don't remember paying for this thread. Again. And again. And again.

 

 

But you get good customer service, cause here it is again.

 

EG

[Brainfertilizer]

One thing's for sure. This thread is going to settle the cheap guitar v. expensive guitar debate on HCEG, once and for all.

 

 

I don't particularly care whether it settles the issue or not. But at least I got to put my opinion out there, for good or ill.

[Guitar Heel]

 

I don't particularly care whether it settles the issue or not. But at least I got to put my opinion out there, for good or ill.

 

 

That wasn't directed at you, the OP, or any single post. Let's just say that you'll have plenty of opportunities to espouse your opinions on this subject here.

[streetknight]

As far as guitars go and I've bought and sold a ton in the last few years. I have owned Gibson, Fender, PRS, G&L, Schecter, Michael Kelly, Epiphone, SX, Yamaha, Ibanez Prestige, Breedlove, Blueridge and probably a bunch more I'm leaving out. Hands down the best quality as a whole has been Yamaha. From the SA2200 and SG1000 I had to the lower line RGX's, just great guitars. G&L comes 2nd on my list.

 

FWIW, the Michael Kelly Patriot I had was nicer than all 6 Gibson's I've bought and a LOT cheaper.

 

But, I agree you get what you pay for, just with gear, I always like to check it out first.

 

I'm very bad about buying brand name on other stuff, like electronics and stuff, reputation is key to a lot of people I guess.

[cbh5150]

One thing's for sure. This thread is going to settle the cheap guitar v. expensive guitar debate on HCEG, once and for all.

Ya know, I would say that the above statement approaches downright sigworthiness...

[Spirithawk]

Not always. Sometimes you get a little less. Sometimes you get a little more. If you're really lucky....a lot more.

[DavidMgT]

sometimes you do, sometimes you dont:)

[scuzzo]

depends on what it is and what you do with it...

i have found there is little correlation in cost vs quality

just as there is little or no correlation in the amount of guitars being related to how well or poor of a player you are.. sooner or later its just wood strings and maggy bits.. best just get on with it..

[DavidMgT]

 

best just get on with it..

 

 

Very true Scuzzo.