Poplar is a crap tone wood? Replace my '97 MIM Strat's body with Alder or Ash?

[smorgdonkey]

I find the negative comments about the Vintage 30 speaker to be hilarious.

 

I plugged in to this retro looking tube amp and played a few guitars through it, from Fender single coils to Lollar P90s to high output humbuckers & lower output humbuckers. Everything was really nice and warm but had the bite when I turned up the gain and dimed the volume controls on the guitars. Vintage 30 in the combo amp and Vintage 30 in the ext cab.

 

I had another tube amp that I sold then missed it and bought an identical model later on. Vintage 30 in those too. Vintage 30 will do almost anything that you want it to do.

 

The bottom line is that even if one favors another speaker over the Vintage 30, it definitely isn't the one thing that 'makes' a guitar not sound good.

[fretmonster]

Jet City, if you are still around just a couple more thoughts. If shrillness is your problem, you might want to sell the Callaham Steel block and get one made of brass (GFS has one at a good price). This one upgrade made a world of difference to my poplar Strat. I've tried the steel big block and found it to be overwhelming and now I have one with an American Fender block (regular size) and the other with an oversized brass block.

 

Also, flat toothpick pieces work great as shims for stripped out screw slots.

[kulardenu]

It's the Holy Grail you seek... Wood, Neck, Strings, Pick ups, Bridge, Nut, ~ Amp (valves if applicable ) > Speaker FINGERS... Some are said to have found this Grail we speak of, yet most fail miserably... Welcome to Les Mis

[stevenjuel]

i have a poplar warmoth tele and it sounds fantastic. The only complaint i have about it is that i super heavy. i have never had any problems with screws not staying in.

[Belva]

 

lol and he wants to change the pickguard. The only thing original left is the receipt.

 

Tone is in the pickguard. I thought everybody knew that. Thin pickguard = thin tone. Want to fatten up your tone get a thicker pickguard. This ain't rocket surgery.:poke:

[Flatspotter]

If you want more sustain, try using a compressor.

[Spudro]

Welcome to Les Mis

[Hurtzher]

 

Alex Lifeson recorded the solo of "Limelight" on an Alder body (frankenstein?) strat and there is tons of sustain in that solo (and overlapping delays).

 

 

Actually, the Strat he used on that song had a mahogany body (it was the white one with the black pickguard used on the Exit...Stage Left concert video). Supposedly, a real heavy body on that guitar. I thought I read somewhere else that his other Strats that he put together in that era were made with ash bodies. Could be off on that one though.

 

HAH! Now you have even more to think about!

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

some pretty cool strat bodies at the bottom of this page,

http://www.rondomusic.com/partsbodies.html

[LesPaulFetish]

No 2 bodies, guitars, woods etc. will ever sound alike. There are awesome guitars out there made of god knows what woods, yet they're awesome.

 

Is you amp up to snuff? That's really what counts IMO, a good amp won't give a {censored} about poplar or no poplar if you know what I mean.

[Johnny Two Tone]

The phrase "tone wood" is being used incorrectly here. Every type of wood has it's own tone-thingy... but some people, especially marketing companies, want people to believe that within each type of wood is a category of especially "tone-full" wood, called tone wood. Eg. There's mahogany, then there's mahogany tone wood. It's not: There's the tone wood called mahogany, then there's the wood called pine that is not a tone wood.

 

Now that that has been said I can then say:

 

THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS TONE WOOD YOU {censored}ING GUYS!

 

It gets mentioned in the DIY forum periodically; "tone wood" is a bull{censored} scam phrase used by people selling planks of wood for more than market value. You'd have to have a system that could accurately test and replicate defined values of tone in wood for that to be a thing. Next we'll be insisting that there's a noticeable tonal change between trembucker pickup pole piece spacings and regular.... oh, wait.

 

Stop being dumb.

[Bob411]

 

I find the negative comments about the Vintage 30 speaker to be hilarious. I plugged in to this retro looking tube amp and played a few guitars through it, from Fender single coils to Lollar P90s to high output humbuckers & lower output humbuckers. Everything was really nice and warm but had the bite when I turned up the gain and dimed the volume controls on the guitars. Vintage 30 in the combo amp and Vintage 30 in the ext cab. I had another tube amp that I sold then missed it and bought an identical model later on. Vintage 30 in those too. Vintage 30 will do almost anything that you want it to do. The bottom line is that even if one favors another speaker over the Vintage 30, it definitely isn't the one thing that 'makes' a guitar not sound good.

 

 

I think what people don't realise is there is no 1 answer. What is great for one amp, is {censored} for another. You can't just get on the internet, read some reviews, and order a speaker from Musician's Friend, ZZ Sounds, etc.. You need to hear that speaker, with your amp. ...or if you have loads of cash, keep ordering difernt speakers till you find, "the one".

 

Got a Peavey Predator a couple of weeks ago, very well thought of guitar, for good reason. Made out of poplar. I like it fine.

 

That doesn't mean you can use ANY wood to make a guitar. There is a reason guitar companies like Gibson, and Fender spend more money on more expensive wood. You don't need to even plug it in, just hit a note, and you can feel if a "solidbody electric" is alive, or dead.

[Belva]

 

then there's the wood called pine that is not a tone wood.

 

You're correct in your assertion that there isn't anything separating regular wood from "tone wood" within the same species. Mahogany is mahogany, alder is alder, etc. But there can be subtle differences from one guitar to another both made from the same wood.

And pine has a tone of it's own. Rumor has it that Leo his self spec'ed pine on the first Esquires. That's mainly because he was a cheap b@$t@*d. Not that there's anything wrong with that. His business accumen sparked a guitar revolution. Thanks Leo. RIP.

[TunaNugget]

I thought that the whole point behind a solid-body guitar was that it is _less_ resonant and "alive," which makes the energy stay in the strings and the amplified signal sustain longer.

[RevRomansky]

Original Danelctro. 2X4 pine body masonite laminated, lipstick tube pickups (yes, the originals used a loosely wound pickup in a REAL lipsick tube), POPLAR neck with two pieces of steel stock, Brazilian rosewood fretboard (hide your Danelectos, the feds are coming) and (of course) those God-awful tuners made out of who knows what. And what a TONE!

[Dirty South Al]

all mahogany is tone wood. I love an all mahogany body guitar, let it be african or whatever.

 

Onto the OP, I have never liked poplar or basswood bodies myself. Those woods seem to be lifeless to me and need the pickups to be design more for those woods in mind. Now that being said, the Parker Flys with the designed pickups from Dimarzios did sound good to me but that was a rare design that had poplar that I like.

 

It gets mentioned in the DIY forum periodically; "tone wood" is a bullshit scam phrase used by people selling planks of wood for more than market value. You'd have to have a system that could accurately test and replicate defined values of tone in wood for that to be a thing. Next we'll be insisting that there's a noticeable tonal change between trembucker pickup pole piece spacings and regular.... oh, wait. Stop being dumb.

[BG76]

Honestly, I think the bright and harsh probably has to do with your Callaham bridge.

[Belva]

 

Honestly, I think the bright and harsh probably has to do with your Callaham bridge.

 

Bright/harsh usually comes from wearing NEW underwear that has been bleached and ironed with starch. If that ain't harsh I dunno what is. Wear your skivies for at least a month if you want a serious dirty tone.

If you want a more ballzy tone, just won't wear any.

[JetCityMatt]

 

I have a poplar body MIM 1994 strat. It's easy to get bitten by the upgrade bug. I also have the same problem with wood being soft and screws not sitting tightly after a few removals. I'm sure you've tried this, but if not, try the free stuff first. Play with pickup height. Also try backing off the volume knob on your guitar a little bit, like to 6 or 7, and crank the amp higher. Try a different pick. Or try something like a clean boost or maybe an eq pedal unless you're some kind of guitar -->cable--> amp purist. I kind of liked my pickups low tonewise but I think it was making the attack on notes spikier... lately I've raised them and it's a little more compressed sounding and warmer with better sustain. I could be completely wrong though. But it costs nothing to try. I know we hear it a lot, but one of my greatest epiphanies was realizing that as a bedroom player the tone I am seeking is very different than someone out gigging nightly with a full band. For one thing, you don't need as much treble to "cut through the mix". If your ears are ringing every time you play, you're doing something wrong (been there myself). Some amps or speakers have a powerful mid spike that adds clarity in a crowded bar situation but harshness in your house. Did you mention what amp you're using? If it's not that good it might make sense to put the money towards a new amp fund otherwise you risk being like those guys driving around Cadillacs on bald tires. You can also sometimes clip capacitors out of your amp, depending on what it is, and make it better (or worse). How did the Callaham block turn out for you?

 

 

Good points! I have known for many months that the Vintage 30 has some high upper mid harshness/spike that is terrible for home playing and have been covering it with a t-shirt to match its volume better with my greenback that it is paired with. I got a big paycheck on Friday and am finally going to order the WGS Retro30 speaker that I have wanted for months.

 

Since I know I'm gonna love my tone after I ditch the V30 I didn't post about the poplar due to being disatisfied with my tone, but more because I've known for years that poplar was _supposedly_ or perhaps inferior to alder and now, for the first time I have the money to upgrade, IF it would improve tone.

 

Of course that ties into my past issues of my guitar sounding a little harsh during lead playing (I love the rythm tone actually), which I now blame on the V30.

 

Even with the V30 in the mix I have recently reduced that harshness by running the drive and volume on my barber direct drive a little higher which is apparently causing more compression when I kick it on for leads. I've also turned my treble down from 7 to 6 and my master up from 5.5 to 6. My ears have always ringed because I also listen to music too loud in my car over the road noise, but I will take the volume back down to previous levels when I get the Retro 30 in a couple days.

 

I have my pickups pretty close to the strings to get it as compressed and warm as it can be. I'm actually pretty happy with the sound so I don't need to upgrade from the poplar- I was just curious if I would get tons more sustain from a harder wood.

With the volume up at 6 or 7 the other day I was NAILING the Queensryche lead sound with the delay drenched never-ending sustain-into-feedback stuff that occurs on the track "Della Brown" on the third solo at 4:44. That has always been guitar tone perfection for me and I DO have it, which is fantastic.

The poplar must be okay, huh?! After I ditch the V30 I will be content!

 

My signal goes into a BOSS Blues Driver that I use as a mild clean boost (like Alex lifeson used the MXR Micro amp) to get a little more cruch on chords, into my fantastic Barber Direct Drive that I use for lead playing and then into the amp. My Soldano Astroverb is the effects loop prototype (I bought it from Mike Soldano in 2001 for only $550) and I have a DD-5 delay and a rarely used Delta Labs Chorus in the loop.

 

It has been several years since I installed the Callaham, but it especially seemed to fill out the clean sound and make it maybe a little more bell-like. I remember that I wasn't blown away by any sustain improvement (which is why I bought it), but was impressed by the well defined bell-like clean tone. I had no need for the groove tubes fat finger after I got the Callaham (assuming the fat finger did anything!).

I am totally satisfied with my sustain now- and I used to not be, so the block must be the reason (or else I'm just playing my amp louder than I used to).

 

Keep in mind that I was upgrading from the ridiculously light and cheap MIM trem block which weighs so little it is practically useless- so there was a lot of improvement to be had.

 

I'm sure you know the fix for the stripped screw holes... get some wood dowel and a drill bit of the same size, drill out the stripped out wood and glue in a piece of dowel in its place. It will be, literally, better than new.

[JetCityMatt]

dude if you change the neck, all the hardware, the pickups AND the body its not the same guitar.

 

Good! When I bought this guitar in '97 (my first and only guitar) I knew NOTHING about guitars except that I had to learn to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and I needed a guitar. I went to the local mom and pop guitar shop and told them about my love of SRV and walked out with this black $350 MIM strat with gig bag.

 

Later I went back for help with getting the Queensryche and hard rock sound (I brought in the QR "Empire" CD and played a solo off of it) and walked out with a Duncan Pearly Gates (ZZ Top) which I installed into my standard strat using a dremel tool on the pickguard (and did a damn fine job). My _opinion_, as a rock lover, is that having a single coil in the bridge is utterly useless when you could have a humbucker there. In addition, when SRV switches to the bridge on my live DVDs it sounds way too trebly, painful even, and you know the people in the front row are NOT having good time while their ears bleed.

 

Clearly I have no qualms about changing my guitar from a strat to a super strat. In fact, I'd trade it right now for one the ESP super strats that Queensryche toured with in the 90s (which has no pick guard and is rear routed).

 

I got a guitar because of SRV, but my style is different than his so I don't need his standard strat. Humbucker in the bridge and single coil in the neck please... and if you rear route it, lose the pickguard and replace the body with a mahogany one with a maple cap (like the Phil Collen signature Jackson) I probably wouldn't mind that either.

 

Clearly, I'm not a purist!

[JetCityMatt]

I guess the main question is- do you really think it will sound that much different? Yes different woods have different qualities, and maybe in an acoustic it is more obvious- but with the exception of the Eric Johnsons of the world, can most of us identify the species used on an electric guitar from a sound clip....hmmm..... Its your guitar, but the posters above are giving you some pretty good advice on things that will probably matter a lot more. Good Luck, I hope you get what you are after.

 

EXACTLY! That is the question. And the answer is: I have no idea if switching to alder will make it sound better because this is the only guitar I have ever owned so I thought I'd ask the experts here if it makes a difference or it is all hype.

 

Yes, people are giving me lots of great advice- thanks everyone!

[JetCityMatt]

 

If your ears can tell the difference between alder, ash, poplar, whatever then you must have some superb hearing. I've owned over 300 electric guitars made fom all kinds of wood and IMO the pickups and amp make a hundred times more difference than the body material. Just an opinion of course. My daughter has a ply body Lotus Strat with EMG Select pickups that sounds great.

 

 

THIS is EXACTLY the kind of fantastic info I was fishing for on this forum!!!

I've always wondered how much wood REALLY matters on an electric since the pickup is really creating the tone anyway. There are websites that talk about different tonal aspects of different wood, but does it really make a difference or are they just trying to sell me one of their new bodies?

 

Thanks!

[Angry Tele]

You should listen to Iron Maiden then put a super distortion in a 57 Strat.

 

Good! When I bought this guitar in '97 (my first and only guitar) I knew NOTHING about guitars except that I had to learn to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan and I needed a guitar. I went to the local mom and pop guitar shop and told them about my love of SRV and walked out with this black $350 MIM strat with gig bag. Later I went back for help with getting the Queensryche and hard rock sound (I brought in the QR "Empire" CD and played a solo off of it) and walked out with a Duncan Pearly Gates (ZZ Top) which I installed into my standard strat using a dremel tool on the pickguard (and did a damn fine job). My _opinion_, as a rock lover, is that having a single coil in the bridge is utterly useless when you could have a humbucker there. In addition, when SRV switches to the bridge on my live DVDs it sounds way too trebly, painful even, and you know the people in the front row are NOT having good time while their ears bleed. Clearly I have no qualms about changing my guitar from a strat to a super strat. In fact, I'd trade it right now for one the ESP super strats that Queensryche toured with in the 90s (which has no pick guard and is rear routed). I got a guitar because of SRV, but my style is different than his so I don't need his standard strat. Humbucker in the bridge and single coil in the neck please... and if you rear route it, lose the pickguard and replace the body with a mahogany one with a maple cap (like the Phil Collen signature Jackson) I probably wouldn't mind that either. Clearly, I'm not a purist!

[sgt mukuzi]

i`m putting together an old Schecter strat, the body is from about 1979, i bolted an old ESP strat neck onto it last night and the interaction between the two pieces was quite amazing. no strings or anything, just wood. knock on it and it rings

[JetCityMatt]

 

I find the negative comments about the Vintage 30 speaker to be hilarious. I plugged in to this retro looking tube amp and played a few guitars through it, from Fender single coils to Lollar P90s to high output humbuckers & lower output humbuckers. Everything was really nice and warm but had the bite when I turned up the gain and dimed the volume controls on the guitars. Vintage 30 in the combo amp and Vintage 30 in the ext cab. I had another tube amp that I sold then missed it and bought an identical model later on. Vintage 30 in those too. Vintage 30 will do almost anything that you want it to do. The bottom line is that even if one favors another speaker over the Vintage 30, it definitely isn't the one thing that 'makes' a guitar not sound good.

 

 

If you are talking about playing with a mostly clean tone I'm sure the V30 did sound fantastic.

And there are plenty of players, like Jerry Cantrell and Slash with their Bogners and Marshalls, who have shown that V30s sound FANTASTIC for higher gain stuff too.

 

I have a suspicion that something about the Soldano's mid voicing is over emphasised by the V30s upper mid spike, but that is just a theory so far.

 

The biggest problem I have always had ever since I bought this 2x12 in 2002 is MIXING SPEAKERS. People, don't do it because you have to compromise on your EQ settings. You cannot find the perfect EQ setting because what is perfect for one speaker is wrong for another. I think I have been shooting myself in the foot all these by mixing speakers. With my greenback the EQ is good with everything at half, but the vintage 30 needs the mids scooped and treble or presence added since it lacks presence, while having way too much upper mids.

If I cover up the Greenback and EQ like that for the V30 I'm sure I wouldn't complain so much, but one speaker without the other seems to be lacking something.

I sure hope the WGS Retro30 is the magic speaker.

 

In the end I may end up with 2 Retro 30s or 2 greenbacks so I can EQ optimally instead of having to compromise between two different speakers.