Members oldschoolshred Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm debating whether to drop a really hot passive bridge pup in my axe, like a DiMarzio X2N or something similar, and wonder if it really is worth it. Right now I have a DiMarzio Super Distortion, already a hot pup, and use a clean boost (a Boss 7-band EQ pedal) to push my tube amp further. The result is probably more than enough gain that I'll ever need but I wonder if with a hotter pup I could get high gain sounds clearer, more defined. Is it really any different than using a moderately hot pup and a clean boost? My Super Distortion is just about the hottest passive pup I've tried so I wonder what exactly is the result of using one of these super hot humbuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faber Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 My line of thinking is to get a pickup that gives you the sound you like and then worry about output later. There are no shortage of boosters if you want a stronger signal - that's really not a problem. Getting the right frequencies from your guitar is the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 If you like muted tone go for it. The hotter the pup, the sharper the mid frequency peak. With a good amp and drive pedals, hotter pickups are rarely needed. Maybe if you use nopedals and rely on the amp only overdriving, and you only play overdriven music then a hotpickup properly selected to match the voicing of the amp can get you there but there are so manyboxes now that will do the exact same thing, it just doesnt make sence to sacrifice loosing yourlows and highs just to get a few microvolts more signal. Any booster pedal would provide thousandsof tines that boost and you can still utilize the frequency responce a cooler pircup provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krank'N Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 Hi-gain pups usually mean less clear and defined. You would lose some dynamic range with a hotter pup. The dimarzio mega drive has a bit more gain but not as much as the X2N. The x2n can sound mushy at times.Try adjusting your amp first or maybe different strings. The Dean Markley Jimi Hendrix strings have a higher iron content and are a little bit louder. Also trya monster cable-they really do sound better! WRGKMC is correct about the boost. Another idea is to put the eq boost in the fx loop then it wont load the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted September 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 My line of thinking is to get a pickup that gives you the sound you like and then worry about output later. There are no shortage of boosters if you want a stronger signal - that's really not a problem. Getting the right frequencies from your guitar is the problem Well I like the tone of the pups in my main axe just fine. I was just wondering if a hotter pup would eliminate the need for me to boost it with a pedal and the result would be a clearer, more defined high gain sound or if ultimately it would be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dirty South Al Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 Well I like the tone of the pups in my main axe just fine. I was just wondering if a hotter pup would eliminate the need for me to boost it with a pedal and the result would be a clearer, more defined high gain sound or if ultimately it would be the same. Higher Output pickups don't always mean less clarity or mud muted tone. It depends on the brand and the way the higher output pickup was designed. Now using a higher output pickup with a boost might be overkill. Depending on which higher output pickup you choose & pots, you CAN get a more defined sound with the push you would want without a boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted September 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 Sounds like I should just stick with what I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GibsonVMan Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 It is highly dependant on which guitar the pickup will be put into. Some pickups just don't favor that well to certain guitars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 Consider a Dimarzio Tone Zone. It's got a fairly hot output, but it's got a lot of texture to it. Very nice lead tone for shreddy stuff and a thick, thunderous metal rhythm/chugga tone.. Great for old school Metallica type stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GibsonVMan Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 Most people get higher output pickups for the voicing rather than the output. Output is a misconception when it comes to pickups. High output dosen't always mean aggressive sounding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm personally not a fan of almost any hot pickup. I like some more character and will add gain in the signal path personally. But that's also for my personal tone taste which is usually a bit sweeter and violin like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fenezz Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm debating whether to drop a really hot passive bridge pup in my axe, like a DiMarzio X2N or something similar, and wonder if it really is worth it. Right now I have a DiMarzio Super Distortion, already a hot pup, and use a clean boost (a Boss 7-band EQ pedal) to push my tube amp further. The result is probably more than enough gain that I'll ever need but I wonder if with a hotter pup I could get high gain sounds clearer, more defined. Is it really any different than using a moderately hot pup and a clean boost?My Super Distortion is just about the hottest passive pup I've tried so I wonder what exactly is the result of using one of these super hot humbuckers. I've got some hot duncans in a LP (they were installed when I got the guitar). I'm not crazy about them, but everyone I jam with loves the sound of this guitar. They're mostly metal heads, so I guess if that's yer bag you might like them. With the hot pickups, I spend MUCH more time fiddling with the guitar's tone and volume controls than I normally do. I've also had to cut back quite a bit on any gain, distortion and overdrive. If I find a deal on some PAF's, I'll be replacing the duncans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 Most people get higher output pickups for the voicing rather than the output. Output is a misconception when it comes to pickups. High output dosen't always mean aggressive sounding... True enough. A Benedetto jazz pickup reads like 12+k resistance, but is quite sweet sounding. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm personally not a fan of almost any hot pickup. I like some more character and will add gain in the signal path personally. But that's also for my personal tone taste which is usually a bit sweeter and violin like. I'm the same way. I have maybe 20 hot wound pups in my parts cab, all stuff I either bought cheap on EBay to try out or stuff I bought or swapped out for others. Nearly all the pickups thet are wound Over 10K really start sounding crummy for cleans. I agree with dirty south, there is more than just the DC resistance. Pickup strengths and field placement are just as big factors. A pickup coil is an inductor and thus has a resonant peak like any other filter coil does. As a general rule the extra winds simply create a narrower Q peak. The bump in whatever frequency winds up being the resonant tone gets sharper and narrower. This isnt nessasarily bad but the trick is to "Match" the resonant peak of the coil to the resonant peak of the guitar which is a real trickey item. You actually have to test the instruments average resonant peak or take an educated guess on what might work best. If the guitar is mostly maple and has say a big 5K peak happening, you can actually mellow/balance that tone out that tone and make the responceflatter by using a pickup with a 5K dip. You have effectively neutralized the peak that way. Those who have allot of experience with vintage guitars know that many of those instruments had some fantastic tone. They often have cooler wound stock pickups with broader frequency responces happening. What is getting hard to find now is the cooler wound pickups. Everyone is pushing the hotter is better BS and in fact, its actually the other way around if you're looking for wider frequency responce. If you're looking for a highly compressed middle boost, then a hot wound might be your ticket. I run Fenders, and Marshalls mostly, both tube and transistor. The older tube amps sound better to mewith a cooler pickup. I can run the EQ setting all about in the middle and sound great. With a hotter pup I wind up having to boost the Trebble and turn mids off completely off. Then you're playing stuff with that scooped mid tone that lacks chimes and harmonics. Its fine for Metal but only having scooped mids is like wearing lead boots to me. I play too many different types of music to be stuck with only one sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricEye Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 I don't know if the output is as hot as an X2N or not, but I have a (real) Bill Lawrence X500-XL in my Soloist and it's the loudest pup I have.... and it's clear as a bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members noisebloom Posted September 6, 2011 Members Share Posted September 6, 2011 I don't think so anymore. I used to think high output pickups were a key ingredient in a high gain sound. Nowadays I'm more than willing to have a low output, high fidelity pickup, and let the amp do the work driving the gain. I think -- at least in modern metal -- that way too much importance has been placed on high output pickups and not enough on dynamic range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian May Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 I cant imagine going hotter than a JB...and the hotter you go the worse your cleans get. I have a JS1000 and with its moderate output humbuckers it gets nice tones across the spectrum. Super hot units are IMO 1 trick poinies...and really not necessary. Like full stack amps these days! Pointless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 If you want a more defined sound, the higher you go, the less you will get, generally, although not always true. For example, super distortions are pretty powerful but if want a bit more clarity at the expense of depth, the JB is a good option. Good harmonics and it cleans up well for a high gain pickup, great harmonics. Best in mahogany and not so good in brighter sounding woods. Tough to choose, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members naveed211 Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 I prefer less hot pickups with high gain amps and hotter pickups with low gain amps...but I've found the JB works well with just about anything. It's a pretty versatile "do most things" kinda pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 Not a fan of super-testosterone-monsterbuckers ... the basis of a great driven/distorted tone is a great CLEAN tone ... ladling on the hair and filth is what pedals and/or amp drive are for ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted September 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 Interesting comments in this thread I hadn't expected. Got me thinking. I'm not unhappy with the sound of my main axe, an all-mahogany PRS with a bridge super distortion I dropped in about 6 months ago. From the opinions here it seems I got a good thing going and shouldn't change it. The pup drives my tube amp noticeably harder than the stock pup I replaced, yet has pleasing cleans if you roll the vol back to about half. I actually get a kick out of this and find myself using the guitar vol to alternate between semi clean tones and balls to the wall distortion. As for the comments on losing dynamics, with this pup I find the opposite actually. The dynamics change dramatically with only a slight change in picking attack and I love that. Now with preamp gain maxed, yes it is a very compressed sound. But that's just perfect for playing say classic metal. The point of this thread has been to decide if an even hotter pickup would be even more of all those qualities and it seems surely not. Seems like I have what I want. Now as how this pup matches my guitar, most who use this axe have more classic pickups. I was going for an early Iron Maiden sound and I think I'll there, despite them using strats which are much brighter, yet still have that rolled-off treble tone that preserves a tight bottom and plenty of mids that I like. I also got it to sound similar to Al DiMeola, who used to use it on his early work. He still seems to sound tinnier than me. At the time he used a Les Paul, which is still a little brighter than my axe. It just seems there are so many other factors influencing tone that if the chance of getting more clarity at high gain is not possible with hotter pups, than a most Duncans or DiMarzios seem to work just fine. Those tonezones are getting a lot of raves though. Never tried them but it seems like tons of people have started using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschoolshred Posted September 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 Not a fan of super-testosterone-monsterbuckers ... the basis of a great driven/distorted tone is a great CLEAN tone ... ladling on the hair and filth is what pedals and/or amp drive are for ... Not really sure I agree. I have two amps, a Fender for cleans and a Laney for gain and neither sound as good the other way around. That's why I A/B them. And as for pickups, my best sounding clean electric is a hollowbody with very solf humbuckers. That thing at best will give my a decent Albert King sound, sorta, but any higher gain and it doesn't work, not even taking account the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 ^^^ Maybe I should have expressed myself more clearly ... (no pun intended). I was referring to the fundamental tone of the PICKUPS ... what you do with their signal once it leaves the output jack of the guitar is entirely up to the ears and taste of the end user ... when you add pedals, amp gain etc you can transform that signal to your heart's content ... I simply meant that lower-output PUs (be they Fendery, PAFy or even P90-y) produce a more pleasing basic tone ... that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darkstorm Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 Depends on the voicing of the pup. Dimarzio tone zone is good. I like it better then the super distortion sound wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scuzzo Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 the more gain you add to a pup.. the less character of the guitar comes through... it all flattens out to a gray wash of distortion... i believe its the amps job to distort it need no help from the pups... so i dont like high gain pup they tend to overpower the nuance of the string.. all those little quirky attribution.. some folks do well with them... most do not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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