Live EQ help needed for two guitars

[Elessar [Sly]]

That age old story of getting a decent EQ with two guitars.

I've recently joined a pop/rock/electro band, and I've added a more experimental sound with my guitar playing and sound. I have played in a band before with two guitarists, and I always played lead/heavier stuff. In this band the other guitarist doesn't seem to have played with another guitarist before and his sound is that of a 'one guitarist band'. I will have a word with him and try and see if we can get a better mix. But I'd like a little help.

I know that live you need to dial in more mids, take out a little 'verb if you are using a lot, and take that gain down a bit. I must mention this is a four piece band: drums, bass, and two 2 guitars. Would it be best to have one guitar with more upper-mid and highs with less lower mid and bass; and have the other guitar with more bass, lower-mid, and less treble?

[hecticone]

As far as part as possible.

[GAS Man]

I haven't played much in that context, but my first thought was rather than an EQ issue, I'd have two more varied levels of gain, the one for more leads, I'd have more gain, and the one that is more rhythm I'd have less gain.

[jtr654]

1st What kind of guitars and amps do you both play through? 2nd do you both play lead/rhythm? Play cleaner than normal rhythms and solos with less gain. Still need to Know the answers to my questions to give you a good answer to yours.

[Alecto]

I'd also think in terms of chord voicings and where you play on the neck. Does he play a lot of 'cowboy' chords or barre chords? Does he emphasize the higher or lower strings when he plays? Sometimes it's great to have two guitars chugging together, playing the same thing but I really like complementary parts.

When playing with a guitarist who doesn't get it, I use a very different guitar than he/she does. If he's bringing a Gibson-type, I bring a Fender type and vice versa. If he loves humbuckers, I go single coils. If he hits right on the downbeat, I hit on the upstrokes. I once played in an 11-piece band and no one understood why I always cut through the mix; the reason was because I was hitting the upstrokes while everyone else was on the downbeats, so my parts always cut through loud and clear.

[mister natural]

^ yeah; I think fretboard voicing is the key - you don't wanna play on the neck in the same places as he does : chord inversions, arpeggios, harmony lines above or below

you only wanna double important riffs or big, dramatic chords

best of luck

[Elessar [Sly]]

1st What kind of guitars and amps do you both play through? 2nd do you both play lead/rhythm? Play cleaner than normal rhythms and solos with less gain. Still need to Know the answers to my questions to give you a good answer to yours.

I play a Gibson SG into Laney IRT60H mostly through the clean channel (it has a great clean channel) and for dirt I'll use a Wilson effects Uber Fubar Bliss (although this will change soon I think since I don't use it much), the amps dirt channel, and an OLC Orange Peel overdrive for a little bit of grit. He plays an Orange micro terror through a feline tiger http://www.felineguitars.com/customb...r%20Model.html.

Originally Posted by Alecto

I'd also think in terms of chord voicings and where you play on the neck. Does he play a lot of 'cowboy' chords or barre chords? Does he emphasize the higher or lower strings when he plays? Sometimes it's great to have two guitars chugging together, playing the same thing but I really like complementary parts.

When playing with a guitarist who doesn't get it, I use a very different guitar than he/she does. If he's bringing a Gibson-type, I bring a Fender type and vice versa. If he loves humbuckers, I go single coils. If he hits right on the downbeat, I hit on the upstrokes. I once played in an 11-piece band and no one understood why I always cut through the mix; the reason was because I was hitting the upstrokes while everyone else was on the downbeats, so my parts always cut through loud and clear.

He plays mostly bar chords and I play all over the neck with lots of jazz chords, downbeats, arpeggio's, little melodies, and a couple solos. I do use dirt power chords for one song (and I think that it may be his gain that is up too much since I have mine dialled back a bit). I try and work my self around his chords and the bass line in the sense that he usually plays throughout the song and I tend to drop in and out when it is right (if that makes sense).

[Grant Harding]

I reckon you should sit down and have a listening session, where you listen to the sorts of songs you're doing and talk about where the volume of the guitar is up or down in the mix. Also talk about how low the guitar is in the mix. Then talk about how you're going to achieve that as a team.

[honeyiscool]

In my opinion, if he's the barre chord guy and you're the all over guy, then he needs to be playing with less gain and less overall volume. On a two-pickup guitar, I think using the middle position really helps full chords sit well yet still leave room for a second guitar. You need to probably turn up more in gain and volume and use your ears to control how you should sit in the mix, let him form the steady, predictable part of the band, you'll be the wildcard. Trying to make clean leads work on top of distorted barre chords is a good way to make your sound way too harsh and make people back away from the stage.

But then again, this might be just me projecting, since I just described what we do in my band, except the second guitarist is a girl. Using a Vox for the rhythm guitar really helps, since they have just the right voicing to make barre chords and open chords sit beautifully.

[Elessar [Sly]]

Some good advice there. I will take this into consideration. Most of the time for cleans I am using the middle position no my SG, and the other guitarist tends to use the bridge pickup with dirt. Being that I've just joined the band I don't want to tell people what to do, I have my own voice and I will make these suggestions, but I don't want it to be taken the wrong way.

I have a MJT (ASH body) Jaguar I need to pick up on thursday from the mail centre, and I'm going to put bare knuckle humbuckers in it(not interested in putting P90's in it and I've already got some single coil guitars). This is going to be a bright and middy guitar so that should help me cut through. I'll probably go with either BKP Crawler, Abraxas, or Black Dog pups. The guitar will be coil tapped as well (my SG is also coil tapped).

[Faber]

I agree with what's already been said, esp about different voicings. I think another important thing is for both guitarists to understand their relative dynamics - sometimes player A play the main part and need to stand out while player B pull back into the mix, and vice versa. Getting two guitarists to be on the same page on this is in my experience one of the major problems of two guitar bands.

[Elessar [Sly]]

Yeah.

We both use MXR 6-band EQ's. How do you think we should have them set up live?




- here's a pic from google to give you an idea of what the pedal is if you aren't familiar with it.

[Elessar [Sly]]

Bump for advice.

[kayd_mon]

 

Originally Posted by Alecto

I'd also think in terms of chord voicings and where you play on the neck.

 

This is far more important than differing EQ. Your equipment doesn't really matter, and shouldn't be a factor. I'd also make sure that both of you have a boost on your pedalboards (if you use them) so that you can easily jump out when needed. Unless of course you have a dedicated sound person.

[honeyiscool]

I don't really think you need a 6-band EQ to do something that lot of rock bands have been doing for decades.

[jtr654]

Also listen to classic 2 guitar bands like Wishbone Ash ,Johnny Winters And ,Beatles, Ect. to get how the interplay between other guitarsist has worked.

[lz4005]

Lots of good advice above.

The only thing I would add is that you should make sure the bass player is cutting out a lot of his upper-mids. It can lead to a muddy mix if all three of you are filling up the same frequency range.

[Elessar [Sly]]

Interesting. I understand what you are getting at with the EQ, but they can help add or subtract certain frequencies. Taking the upper mids out of the bass is a good idea.

[arrowhen]

I think using a EQ pedals could help, but I see it as more as a finishing touch rather than a primary solution. I think your first priority should be your arrangements.

It sounds like right now they're operating as a three piece band and you're just adding embellishments on top, pretty much like doing overdubs, only live. There's nothing wrong with that, but it would probably be more satisfying for both of you if you can come up with ways of approaching the songs as a two guitar team. If the other guy is used to being the only guitarist, he's probably in the habit of trying to fill out the sound as much as possible; it's probably a little frustrating for you trying to find ways to fit in and make your own contributions without making everything sound too busy. At the same time, the other guy probably has ideas of his own for extra bits he'd like to throw in but couldn't because he had to hold down the chord progression (that was something that frustrated me to no end back in the day when my band went from a four piece to a trio -- I'd have an idea for an extra little run or twiddly bit, but the song also needed a damn chord there, and since I was the only guitar player, that's what I played). If you can work together to find ways to take advantage of the fact that you have two guitars instead of one -- especially if you do something beyond the typical "lead guitar/rhythm guitar" approach, you'll both have more fun and make more interesting music.

And then if you still need to, you can start working on distinguishing your tones from one another.

[Grant Harding]

As people have mentioned, it's not about eq, it's about arranging the parts so they compliment each other and control the volume. In general terms, if you're playing clean and he's playing distorted I'd start with a slight smile shape on your eq and a slight frown on his if you really want to use the eq pedals. Compressors would do a better job of helping you sit in the mix.

[Elessar [Sly]]

Interesting, I used a CS-2 for our rehearsal before this one, and I felt I had a better sound.

[Elessar [Sly]]

We sounded much better last night. I took my Ibanez with a brighter sound, and tweaked all the bands EQ settings. Much better sound, thanks dudages

[danswon]

There are too many variables for me to give some meaningful specific advice but having been in several 2-guitar bands I can say that a LOT of practicing will help more than anything (with the equipment you intend to use live)

[Elessar [Sly]]

 

Originally Posted by danswon

There are too many variables for me to give some meaningful specific advice but having been in several 2-guitar bands I can say that a LOT of practicing will help more than anything (with the equipment you intend to use live)

 

Yeah I've been in two guitar bands before, this is just a different mesh. The situation is a little different; before projects were mainly formed by me, this time I joined a band so I didn't want it to come across the wrong way. It is going well though.