Politics: Time To Move?!?

[Craig Vecchione]

I love to hear people who work for the government complain about taxes.

 

Well, they are still citizens who pay taxes. If you were talking about elected officials, that's a different thing entirely.

 

Employees of private companies have a right to voice concern over the prices the company charges. This is essentially the same.

[RSBro]

Corporate taxes are actually one of the few correctly-apportioned taxes we have (as opposed to the income tax, to most individuals).

 

But for anyone who doesn't understand this economic impact, just look at a corporate (1120) tax return. You want to make that "Officer's Compensation" line jump to offest ANY gains they might have to beat this out? Do this. Your pay isn't going to, but theirs will. And then plugging expenses any and all places to bump down the net figure, which is going to spur audits deluxe, which means more money and expenses for everyone.

 

All very circular, and quite sad.

[misterhinkydink]

 

Well, they are still citizens who pay taxes. If you were talking about elected officials, that's a different thing entirely. Employees of private companies have a right to voice concern over the prices the company charges. This is essentially the same.

 

 

I never said no one has the right to voice concern. But I don't see anyone willingly giving up anything to ease the tax burden or a company's costs.

[J.]

Yeah, we understand they technically pay taxes, but when their tax rate goes up do you think that actually cuts into their profits or is passed on to the consumer?

 

That's where a dictatorship would be handy. You could nudge the business entity in question towards your preferred course of action. Of course the CEO could decide to pull up stakes and move, but he would also know darn well that you'd kill his family if he dared to make such a move.

[ThudMaker]

There's a reason every state that touches Illinois had an increase in jobs since G-Rod took office, while Illinois continues to lose them. Thanks for the continued vaseline job, Blob-of-itch. Now to those of you who voted for a fringe candidate instead of Topinka. . . . .this is why you don't waste your vote, even when you're not very thrilled with the other party's candidate.

[thebeatcatcher2]

Are you suggesting the the ends justifies the means? i don't know, maybe, i'm saying you're correct in that the consumer will pay the taxes ultimately, so maybe there's more to his means than just on the surface of taxing big corporations. the means are kind of tricky, i guess. No, you go to the emergency room OR work on improving your lot in life such that you can get a job with health benefits. No, public education is not underfunded: My Local High School Salaries Folks tend to cite teacher's salaries, but teachers are paid pretty well overall. When adjusted for cost-of-living, I suspect teachers do okay. When looking at the salaries, keep in mind that teachers work about 8 months out of the year (all gov holidays off, a week off in the Spring, three months off in the Summer, and two weeks off a Christmas).

 

wow, i'll come work in your district any day! i've never heard of a teacher making 100k! administration, yes, but not a teacher!

 

emergency rooms aren't cheap, and what about vision or dental? the easiest way to work on improving your lot in life is through public education, high school grads make almost double what dropouts make annually.

 

 

when funding is mainly based on property taxes like in illinois and indiana, schools can and will be underfunded in poor areas, the areas that need good schools the most. indianapolis public schools, as are probably chicago's, are in horrible shape financially and academically. sure a teacher might make 45-50k (after 6+ years and a MA at their own expense) but then they get to deal with 25-30 low SES kids in their classes and limited materials. it's pretty hard to teach like that, which is why all the good teachers flee to the suburb schools as soon as a job opens up (which don't even pay that much more at all).

 

it's a much harder job than people think, which is why the trends show that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of new teachers leave the profession within 3-5 years, so something is out of balance.

 

i just think we live in the richest country on the planet and we should spread the wealth around a little more than we are now. maybe i should move to canada.

 

man the breaks are nice though! i will give you that, but they are very very necessary. without them i bet you'd see a lot of teachers go postal.

[ThudMaker]

wow, i'll come work in your district any day! i've never heard of a teacher making 100k!

They make that all day long. The way it works is that they don't make a whole lot for most of their careers (so the taxpayers can afford them), but the pensions are based on the average of the last three years they were teaching before retirement . . . . .so, voila, the last three years a teacher is teaching, they make huge salaries, so they can cheat the taxpayers and smile all the way to the bank. Then based upon cost of living adjustments, five years after retirement they are getting paid more money than the day they retired. Then people wonder why the pension funds in Illinois are going bankrupt.

[collinwho]

 

i just think we live in the richest country on the planet and we should spread the wealth around a little more than we are now. maybe i should move to canada.

 

 

Not quite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income

[Ender_rpm]

Not quite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income

 

Now do a search for WEALTH, not income. 2 different measures of economic well being. And then check for PPP (Purchasing power parity) Even if a foreign currency exchanges well and makes it look like their citizensa re well off, see how much stuff COSTS on an even playing field. Like $AUS vs $US on a MIM Jazz bass.

 

EDIT: Never mind, RTFA and all that

[King Kashue]

i just think we live in the richest country on the planet and we should spread the wealth around a little more than we are now. maybe i should move to canada.

 

You (or anyone) want more money? Go out and earn it.

 

Very (very) rarely will someone with the drive to earn not be able to (my father, in his later years, is one of those people, so it's not as if I'm speaking out of school).

 

The US is full of incompetent and lazy people who make plenty of money...Get industrious...Steal one of their jobs

[picker13]

In Illinois, that would be a tragic mistake. Currently the corporate laws in Illiniois are quite favorable for national corporations and that's why there are so many national businesses based in Chicago. Change the tax code, and you would see operations moved. It's a no brainer. Yes, they could pass on the tax to the consumer, but that would make them non-competitive, so it would be a death sentence in today's retail environment. No, the only way out would be to move the headquaters and all the employees, and all the monies that go with it, to a more reasonalbe state. And many are out there wooing new businesses to come, not chasing them away.

[collinwho]

Now do a search for WEALTH, not income. 2 different measures of economic well being. And then check for PPP (Purchasing power parity) Even if a foreign currency exchanges well and makes it look like their citizensa re well off, see how much stuff COSTS on an even playing field. Like $AUS vs $US on a MIM Jazz bass. EDIT: Never mind, RTFA and all that

 

I do agree that per capita isn't the only indicator for wealth, and it does have its faults but :blah:

 

I think the most important thing to take from the lists on the wiki are

1. Move to Luxemborg

2. if that doesn't work, move to Norway.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I never said no one has the right to voice concern. But I don't see anyone willingly giving up anything to ease the tax burden or a company's costs.

 

 

 

Why should they? The employees of private companies are entitled to negotiate the best wage they can, and there's no reason a private citizen working a government job should get less, unless we're willing to accept an even lower standard of work from them.

 

If the same standards that apply to private free enterprise were applied to government, you could be certain that waste would be reduced substantially, and that we'd get better services for less money. But don't ever expect this to happen. I don't think even KK could find an example of a government throughout history that was run this way....

[T. Alan Smith]

You (or anyone) want more money? Go out and earn it. Very (very) rarely will someone with the drive to earn not be able to (my father, in his later years, is one of those people, so it's not as if I'm speaking out of school). The US is full of incompetent and lazy people who make plenty of money...Get industrious...Steal one of their jobs

 

+1!!!

This is the core of the problem. Nobody wants to earn anything anymore. Tired of paying high prices? Don't. But if you want better healthcare, go out an EARN it. Simple as that folks!

[Ender_rpm]

 

If the same standards that apply to private free enterprise were applied to government, you could be certain that waste would be reduced substantially, and that we'd get better services for less money. But don't ever expect this to happen. I don't think even KK could find an example of a government throughout history that was run this way....

 

 

I call bull crap, as the current Walter Reed ruckus illustrates. Some things CANNOT be provided efficiently (in the economic sense) beacause they do not respond to supply/demand equations. Is it inefficient to pay a janitor federal payscale and benes to sit around for 30 years to keep a facility running properly? Not if you need him to do it on demand when the need arises. The Market based approach is not a cure all.

[thebeatcatcher2]

You (or anyone) want more money? Go out and earn it. Very (very) rarely will someone with the drive to earn not be able to (my father, in his later years, is one of those people, so it's not as if I'm speaking out of school). The US is full of incompetent and lazy people who make plenty of money...Get industrious...Steal one of their jobs

 

 

i agree, but some people are in that type of environment (nature AND nuture) growing up, and i would like to believe (naive alert) that a school teacher can have an impact in breaking the poverty cycle through education, not just through english or science, but through teaching consequences and rewards of an education and responsible behavior. some lessons are learned too late and by this time they have dropped out, have a dead end job, and/or criminal records and the proverbial pooch is screwed.

 

my dad's parents got mad at him for wanting to go to college and couldn't understand wasting all that time and money.

 

i'll earn my money the old fashioned way... powerball tickets.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

i just think we live in the richest country on the planet and we should spread the wealth around a little more than we are now. maybe i should move to canada.

 

 

 

Yes, the US is one of the richest countries, but "spread the wealth around"??? Sorry, but if I earn a dollar, I see very little of it, after paying income taxes to state, local and federal gov'ts, and then I pay again when I use that money to purchase something. We're essentially double-taxed unless we make an illegal private transaction.

 

I have little or no say on where that money goes...my letters to local, state and federal representatives mostly fall on deaf ears...their loyalties are to big lobbying constituencies, not the private average Joe. Hell, we locals banded together but couldn't even stop the township from making a one-way street into a 2-way just to accomodate the building of yet another new bank branch. The gimme they offered was planting some trees where our development borders that street. It's about 500 feet long...they planted 5 evergreens, 3 of which died in 6 months.

 

{censored} spreading it around. We should be able to keep a LOT more of what we earn.

[pickinatit]

 

Umm, corporations DO pay taxes. Corporate income tax is the single largest portion of federal revenue. In fact the legislation that allows individuals to sue a corportaion also established them as a taxable entity, IIRC. the problem for Ill is that if the tax rates go too high, those businesses who can will move, and those who cannot will close, making the problem worse thant before.

 

 

What you're missing is that Corporations don't just "Eat IT" when they pay taxes. The tax expense is very much calculated into the bottom line when they decide what to sell their product/service for. So who actuallay pays the tax ?

 

WE DO!!! Every time we buy that product or use that service!! Think it all the way through!!

[pickinatit]

 

public education is too underfunded. people want good public schools for their children, are aghast at the lack of quality teachers, but won't pay for it.

 

 

I think that if you look at various school system expenditures you find that some of the worst school systems in the country (as far as student acheivement, drop out rates, SAT and other standardized test scores, etc)

spend the most money per student.

 

It has pretty much been proven statistically that there is no real correlation between money spent and quality of education.

 

If you really want to improve education, privatize it to create a profit incentive and you will end up with more succesful schools operated with greater efficiency.

[Phantasm]

EVERYONE STOP POSTING AND GET BACK TO WORK!!!

 

There are millions on welfare depending on you to pay for their healthcare!

 

[RSBro]

Yes, the US is one of the richest countries, but "spread the wealth around"??? Sorry, but if I earn a dollar, I see very little of it, after paying income taxes to state, local and federal gov'ts, and then I pay again when I use that money to purchase something. We're essentially double-taxed unless we make an illegal private transaction. I have little or no say on where that money goes...my letters to local, state and federal representatives mostly fall on deaf ears...their loyalties are to big lobbying constituencies, not the private average Joe. Hell, we locals banded together but couldn't even stop the township from making a one-way street into a 2-way just to accomodate the building of yet another new bank branch. The gimme they offered was planting some trees where our development borders that street. It's about 500 feet long...they planted 5 evergreens, 3 of which died in 6 months. {censored} spreading it around. We should be able to keep a LOT more of what we earn.

 

Hell yes.

 

If you need ANY more proof of why this "let's all just get along and everyone will have money and we'll all be happy" Commie bull{censored} just need look at the Katrina absolute disaster when the gov't. was giving out free money to all of these victims, some of whom were spending it on booze, strippers and sex change ops.

 

Yeah. That's what's wrong with this country. Everyone just doesn't have enough "blowing cash".

[Gfunkk44]

 

i think the overall end is important though, even if the means are incorrect. we need to find a way to do something about our health care system. it's too expensive and if you don't have a job that offers benefits, you're screwed. public education is too underfunded. people want good public schools for their children, are aghast at the lack of quality teachers, but won't pay for it. sure the consumers will end up paying the tax, but why shouldn't they?

 

 

Im not from your state, so I am only speaking from personal experience around here and generalities. But I am scared to death of the federal government running healthcare. I know people always bring up that it works in other countries but this is the US were talking about, we are really bad at social program... just look at social security.

 

I would be in favor of a healthcare system run by the government but it needs to be done right... SImply collecting more tax and saying "free healthcare is a right" is not a viable soulition. We need to lower healthcare costs across the board and make a system where the healthcare provided would actually be something useful.

 

What we really need to go after is the health care industry in general. Health care is outta control, and we need not protect that industry... because if costs keep increasing at the rate they are nobody will be able to afford decent healthcare anyway.

 

I really disagree with the public education argument. It's not that they are underfunded, it's that the funds allocated are severly misused. Here in Michigan for the first time the number of non-educator staff has risen above 50%. We need better focus and effiency... simply dumping more money into healthcare or schools will do nothing but increase the amount of money that will be abused.

[Svi]

This guy is a total jackass. The only good he really did for Illinois is open road tolling. That's about it. I voted for him the first time around but the second time around I prayed he didn't get re-elected. He's a crook.

[lug]

Hell yes. If you need ANY more proof of why this "let's all just get along and everyone will have money and we'll all be happy" Commie bull{censored} just need look at the Katrina absolute disaster when the gov't. was giving out free money to all of these victims, some of whom were spending it on booze, strippers and sex change ops. Yeah. That's what's wrong with this country. Everyone just doesn't have enough "blowing cash".

 

In Houston, we sold more big screen TV's and diamond rings than ever!

[RSBro]

 

Im not from your state, so I am only speaking from personal experience around here and generalities. But I am scared to death of the federal government running healthcare. I know people always bring up that it works in other countries but this is the US were talking about, we are really bad at social program... just look at social security. I would be in favor of a healthcare system run by the government but it needs to be done right... SImply collecting more tax and saying "free healthcare is a right" is not a viable soulition. We need to lower healthcare costs across the board and make a system where the healthcare provided would actually be something useful. What we really need to go after is the health care industry in general. Health care is outta control, and we need not protect that industry... because if costs keep increasing at the rate they are nobody will be able to afford decent healthcare anyway. I really disagree with the public education argument. It's not that they are underfunded, it's that the funds allocated are severly misused. Here in Michigan for the first time the number of non-educator staff has risen above 50%. We need better focus and effiency... simply dumping more money into healthcare or schools will do nothing but increase the amount of money that will be abused.

 

 

Healthcare costs will only decline when medical and malpractice insurance on the health provider's sides decline, and THAT's only going to happen when nitpicky medical suits stop.

 

Good luck. But I'm with you- leaving the US federal gov't. to run anything regarding money is the wrong way to go.