Politics: Time To Move?!?

[Thunderbroom]

SPRINGFIELD -- Illinois would see the largest tax increase in its history under Gov. Rod Blagojevich's plan to provide health care for the uninsured and ramp up state support for education.

 

He's on the radio right now (890AM in Chicago). This guy is clueless. He's proposing to raise corporate taxes by more than $7B. While it may play well with his constituents I've got a message for you Governor: Hey dumbass...corporations don't pay taxes!!!!

[sludgebass69]

Yeah, I saw that. Wow, just wow........I mean it doesn't take a financial wizard or even an 5th grade education to figure out who will actually pay.....

 

 

(I'm so glad my pension is IMRF and not state)

[lug]

SPRINGFIELD -- Illinois would see the largest tax increase in its history under Gov. Rod Blagojevich's plan to provide health care for the uninsured and ramp up state support for education. He's on the radio right now (890AM in Chicago). This guy is clueless. He's proposing to raise corporate taxes by more than $7B. While it may play well with his constituents I've got a message for you Governor: Hey dumbass...corporations don't pay taxes!!!!

 

 

It appears you have thought beyond the headline that tells people evil corporations will be paying this tax....

 

STONE HIM!

[sludgebass69]

Blagojevich won re-election partly because of his promise not to raise taxes. His aides said this budget does not break that promise because the governor specified that his pledge applied to the income and sales tax. In addition, his proposed increases apply to businesses, not individuals

 

Wow, George Sr. would be proud.

[Ender_rpm]

Umm, corporations DO pay taxes. Corporate income tax is the single largest portion of federal revenue. In fact the legislation that allows individuals to sue a corportaion also established them as a taxable entity, IIRC. the problem for Ill is that if the tax rates go too high, those businesses who can will move, and those who cannot will close, making the problem worse thant before.

[sludgebass69]

Umm, corporations DO pay taxes. Corporate income tax is the single largest portion of federal revenue. In fact the legislation that allows individuals to sue a corportaion also established them as a taxable entity, IIRC. the problem for Ill is that if the tax rates go too high, those businesses who can will move, and those who cannot will close, making the problem worse thant before.

 

 

 

Yeah, we understand they technically pay taxes, but when their tax rate goes up do you think that actually cuts into their profits or is passed on to the consumer?

[thebeatcatcher2]

i think the overall end is important though, even if the means are incorrect.

 

we need to find a way to do something about our health care system. it's too expensive and if you don't have a job that offers benefits, you're screwed.

 

public education is too underfunded. people want good public schools for their children, are aghast at the lack of quality teachers, but won't pay for it.

 

sure the consumers will end up paying the tax, but why shouldn't they?

[Thunderbroom]

i think the overall end is important though, even if the means are incorrect. we need to find a way to do something about our health care system. it's too expensive and if you don't have a job that offers benefits, you're screwed. public education is too underfunded. people want good public schools for their children, are aghast at the lack of quality teachers, but won't pay for it. sure the consumers will end up paying the tax, but why shouldn't they?

 

 

I don't know where to start with this one.

[Ender_rpm]

Yeah, we understand they technically pay taxes, but when their tax rate goes up do you think that actually cuts into their profits or is passed on to the consumer?

 

Oh I know, I know. Hooray capitalism....

[Thunderbroom]

 

public education is too underfunded. people want good public schools for their children, are aghast at the lack of quality teachers, but won't pay for it.

 

 

No, public education is not underfunded:

 

My Local High School Salaries

 

Folks tend to cite teacher's salaries, but teachers are paid pretty well overall. When adjusted for cost-of-living, I suspect teachers do okay. When looking at the salaries, keep in mind that teachers work about 8 months out of the year (all gov holidays off, a week off in the Spring, three months off in the Summer, and two weeks off a Christmas).

[B-Bottom]

 

Umm, corporations DO pay taxes. Corporate income tax is the single largest portion of federal revenue. In fact the legislation that allows individuals to sue a corportaion also established them as a taxable entity, IIRC. the problem for Ill is that if the tax rates go too high, those businesses who can will move, and those who cannot will close, making the problem worse thant before.

 

 

+1. As someone who works with Corp tax on an almost daily basis i can attest to this.

[Thunderbroom]

+1. As someone who works with Corp tax on an almost daily basis i can attest to this.

 

So B-Bottom...are you suggesting that when company's have their taxes increased that they allow those increases to cut into their profits? If so, I guess they aren't so evil afterall.

[burdizzos]

It seems to me that the solution is simple.

 

T-broom, just cancel your health insurance policy. If the state is going to pay for the health insurance of the uninsured, you'd be a fool to keep paying your premiums. You can then use the saved money to buy some sweet rims and bluetooth accessories for your phone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Bottom]

So B-Bottom...are you suggesting that when company's have their taxes increased that they allow those increases to cut into their profits? If so, I guess they aren't so evil afterall.

 

 

that's up to the corporations....I'm sure they'll do the right thing

[Thunderbroom]

It seems to me that the solution is simple. T-broom, just cancel your health insurance policy. If the state is going to pay for the health insurance of the uninsured, you'd be a fool to keep paying your premiums. You can then use the saved money to buy some sweet rims and bluetooth accessories for your phone.

 

Damn...I didn't even think of this (must be the responsible adult in me).

 

I hope this passes.

 

My employer pays ~$10k a year for my family's health insurance. Instead of getting my wife a CR-V, maybe it's time to think bigger.

 

Oh yeah, school's are underfunded. I don't make enough dough. I can't teach my students if I don't get a substantial pay raise.

 

and for those not in the know, I am a teacher.

[Thunderbroom]

that's up to the corporations....I'm sure they'll do the right thing

 

So then you agree with sludge and I.

[Ender_rpm]

 

No, you go to the emergency room OR work on improving your lot in life such that you can get a job with health benefits. No, public education is not underfunded:

 

 

If I'm uninsured and go to the ER, I want to thank you TBroom for offering to oick up my tab through taxes. Thankfully, I'm not, but the offer is noble. There was an interesting article on Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2161318/fr/flyout) (yes, liberal bias alert), but it had a good point. Public Health, like National Defense, is poorly distributed in the private sector. Just food for thought. If the common defense is a right of each individual, maybe we need to say that public healthcare is too?

 

And I agree that teachers are not so much underpayed as over tasked. Too many kids, too many competing priorities, too much overhead, and very little oportunity for advancement. Increasing salaries IS one way of attracting more peopel to the profession. And please don't go on about having a summer break. Most of the teacher s I know have to take other jobs to make ends meet beacuse they don't get regular paychecks during that period. Reforming the schools would require us to reform the kids we send to them.

[burdizzos]

Hmmm, where would I be more likely to invest? A company who does not pass tax increases onto the customer in the interest of fairness, lower profits and as a result less growth. Or a company that does what it can to maximize profits while playing within the rules?

 

 

It's no secret that those who hate corporations the most don't buy stocks. Maybe if those tree hugging anti-capitalists would put their money where their mouth's are, thet could affect some kind of change. In the mean time they will be left to bitch and moan about things that they could do something about, but are too lazy to act.

[burdizzos]

Or T-broom, you could load up the family and move to Virginia. We do not care about the poor here. Also, the house two doors down from mine will be auctioned off next weekend.

[Thunderbroom]

And I agree that teachers are not so much underpayed as over tasked. Too many kids, too many competing priorities, too much overhead, and very little oportunity for advancement. Increasing salaries IS one way of attracting more peopel to the profession. And please don't go on about having a summer break. Most of the teacher s I know have to take other jobs to make ends meet beacuse they don't get regular paychecks during that period. Reforming the schools would require us to reform the kids we send to them.

 

As to your first statements, I agree. My wife was a public school teacher. The teacher's union (atleast around here) has more control than the administration does. They protect mediocre teachers and that attitude seems to permeat the profession. There are exceptions certainly, but my wife chose not to handle the bureaucracy nor could she tolerate the teacher down the hall that had his job protected as he showed videos every day in class.

 

Teachers are given the option of being paid over the school year (more money per check) or have their pay distributed over the entire calendar year. The ones not receiving a paycheck over the Summer need to learn how to manage their money better.

[Ender_rpm]

Amend the Constitution. K, I'll get right on that As to your first statements, I agree. My wife was a public school teacher. The teacher's union (atleast around here) has more control than the administration does. They protect mediocre teachers and that attitude seems to permeat the profession. There are exceptions certainly, but my wife chose not to handle the bureaucracy nor could she tolerate the teacher down the hall that had his job protected as he showed videos every day in class. Ain't tenure a bitch? I understand its application in higher ed, where academic research can get you in trouble politically, but not at the primary and secondary level. Sure, some teachers are doing research for thier masters, but c'mon... Teachers are given the option of being paid over the school year (more money per check) or have their pay distributed over the entire calendar year. The ones not receiving a paycheck over the Summer need to learn how to manage their money better.

 

Yup

[Craig Vecchione]

I'd almost be willing to accept a $7B tax hike IF it actually resulted in a good healthcare plan (I'm not saying this one sounds good), but the end result will always be that the taxes went up, the corp's either passed them right along to the consumer or left the state (more likely they leave the country), and NOTHING was done with money to actually improve health care.

[misterhinkydink]

I love to hear people who work for the government complain about taxes.

[Thunderbroom]

I love to hear people who work for the government complain about taxes.

 

It doesn't make my point any less valid.

[sludgebass69]

I love to hear people who work for the government complain about taxes.

 

 

Uhmmm, if that's directed at me....I don't work for "the government". We are an independent municapality that is funded by the rate we directly charge our users.