Politics: Time To Move?!?

[RSBro]

 

You can't use exceptions to prove a rule.

 

 

Human nature is not an exception my friend.

[ThudMaker]

 

My problem is that the opposite is also true. If the job doesn't pay enough money, nobody will take it.

 

Your logic assumes that there is another company down the road that is hiring. A company should at least be able to fail in this manner (not adapting to proper wage scales) than because of government interference through excessive taxation.

[RSBro]

 

Your logic assumes that there is another company down the road that is hiring. A company should at least be able to fail in this manner (not adapting to proper wage scales) than because of government interference through excessive taxation.

 

 

Exactly. The next company down the road has the same new tax increase as the one who just lowballed you. They're not any better off.

[bbl]

 

You betcha, just ask California. Nevada and Arizona just love California tax and spend socialists for all the businesses they've driven into those states.

 

 

Yeah, but there's opposing pressure there, too, because who wants to live in those crappy states? California is where the talent is because it's where people want to live. And they'll still coming. That's why it'll always be attractive to businesses.

[Synonym Music]

 

Emergency rooms??? The {censored}ing ER will charge you four hundred dollars for advice. A doctor walks in, takes a look at the problem, offers a solution, and you proceed on to billing. Four hundred greenbacks, please! :rolleyes:

 

The second part is (sadly) more plausible, though it's still far easier said than done. I suppose it could go along with what Kashue said, though like him I've seen a person with plenty of drive and tons of experience on their resume turned down by nearly everyone in their field.

 

There are certainly.... Reasons...

[Mudbass]

 

Yeah, but there's opposing pressure there, too, because who wants to live in those crappy states? California is where the talent is because it's where people want to live. And they'll still coming. That's why it'll always be attractive to businesses.

 

 

A lot of people want to live in those crappy states. Las Vegas, Phoenix and Scottsdale are among the fastest growing cities in America and it's largely due to disgusted Californians who have packed up and left. Portland and Seattle used to be the prime destinations for pissed off Californians and it's driven property values so high there that Nevada and Arizona are now a better bargain.

[bbl]

 

Human nature is not an exception my friend.

 

 

You're human. Is it in your nature to take free money and waste it? I'm guessing no. And you're not an exception.

 

Again, you can't use exceptions to prove a rule.

[bbl]

Ah, I'm nitpicking on people's posts.

 

The only real point I want to make is along the lines of my reply to T-Broom. We're trying to put a band-aid on a gaping wound. We need more real education and preventative actions. Nip it in the bud. Get fast food and sodas out of our schools. Instead of creating more happy, healthy, educated, emotional stable adults, it appears that we're creating more fat, depressed, frivolous, isolated, diabetic, drug addicts (anti-depressants). And you CAN'T ignore the influence that the fast food, phamacutical, credit card, and snack food industries have! They're aiming right at our kids!

 

Prevention and education would kill the health care industry as we know it.

[thebeatcatcher2]

 

I don't make enough dough. I can't teach my students if I don't get a substantial pay raise.

 

 

sorry i missed this post earlier...

 

i never said that or meant to imply that when i said schools were underfunded. i'd be crazy if i went into teaching for the money.

 

however, i couldn't teach my students adequately if i had 30 in the classroom.

[Thunderbroom]

Since you're a teacher, could you tell us what's happened recently to physical education, financial education, arts, and nutritional education? All major factors in healthy living. Is your school doing it's best to teach it's students how to live healthy lives? You know, so they can stay out of the hospital and reduce our tax burden? Do you teach your students about the phamacutical industry? About how much profit it makes? About it's "relationship" with physicians? Do you teach your students about fast food, trans fats, high fructose corn syrup? Diabetes? Do you teach them about relationships, friendships, communication, trust, how to acknowledge repressed anxiety, anger, fear, and self doubt? You know, education and prevention? Just askin'.

 

I teach at a college. I'm sure all of the stuff you mentioned above is taught. As for me, I teach students job skills so that they can go out and take care of the folks that either can't or won't take care of themselves.

[knuckle_head]

 

What we really need to go after is the health care industry in general.

 

 

It isn't the health care industry - it's the insurance industry.

[bassman1956]

You know, I was going to save this for it's own thread. But, inasmuch as I haven't read every post since this thread was about half this size, I think this is appropriate.

 

Here's an email I received the other day. I think it does speak volumes.

 

 

How Long Do We Have?

 

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

 

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

 

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

 

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

 

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

 

3. From courage to liberty;

 

4. From liberty to abundance;

 

5. From abundance to complacency;

 

6. From complacency to apathy;

 

7. From apathy to dependence;

 

8. From dependence back into bondage "

 

 

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

 

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million;

 

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000

 

States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

 

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

 

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare..."

 

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the

"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of

democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already

having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

 

If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20 million

criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye USA

in less than 5 years.

 

Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake,

knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[King Kashue]

 

I suppose it could go along with what Kashue said, though like him I've seen a person with plenty of drive and tons of experience on their resume turned down by nearly everyone in their field.

 

 

As I said, my father was one of those people. When his field dried up in the late 70s, he worked for a contractor, when that firm went floppy in the 90s, he started his own appraisal business, when that dried up, he went to work where ever he could, Home Quarters, hack license, anything to bring money in. Two bachelors and a masters, and he couldn't get a minimum wage job because he was overqualified...

 

But he's a rare case in my experience...

[Svi]

 

snip

 

 

Before I went off on my rant on how bogus I thought that email was I decided to do some research on Mr.Olson myself. Here's what I found:

 

http://www.hamline.edu/law/professors/joseph_olson.html

 

"DISCLAIMER: There is an e-mail floating around the internet dealing with the 2000 Bush/Gore election, remarks of a Scotish philosopher named Alexander Tyler, etc. Part of it is attributed to me. It is entirely BOGUS as to my authorship. I've been trying to kill it for 3 years. For details see: http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp."

[misterhinkydink]

 

 

 

Snopes

[Mudbass]

 

7. From apathy to dependence;

 

 

 

I figure we're right about there.

[King Kashue]

Snopes

 

Beat me to it

 

 

 

Now all we need is the "Characteristics of Facism" list and someone quoting "Thomas Jefferson" as saying "Dissent is the Highest form of patriotism" and we'll have the misquoted political cut-and-paste trifecta

[Synonym Music]

As I said, my father was one of those people. When his field dried up in the late 70s, he worked for a contractor, when that firm went floppy in the 90s, he started his own appraisal business, when that dried up, he went to work where ever he could, Home Quarters, hack license, anything to bring money in. Two bachelors and a masters, and he couldn't get a minimum wage job because he was overqualified....

 

A felony on your record will do very similar things, and really it's become a blatant form of discrimination in some cases. One insignificant mistake and you're forced into the bottom rung of employment automatically?

 

America the beautiful, persecuting it's hardest workers as always.

[bassman1956]

 

Snopes

 

 

 

Yeup, won't deny that. I published the entire email, and said it's something to think about.

 

I do think the message has truth to it.

[bassman1956]

Let's put it this way...

I know several people who would say, regardless of the source, or the truth of who wrote that when, it seems real, and to them it seems we really are towards the bottom of the life cycle.

 

What do you think?

Do you see it that way too?

[Emprov]

 

But he's a rare case in my experience...

 

I don't think that it's all that rare. My wife's biological father was in Silicon Valley when Silicon Valley was being formed. He worked at some of the first high tech startups and has been at more companies that have been bought out by bigger fish than you can imagine. Well, his last company ran out of funding as part of DotBomb, (I was a causualty as well), and he hasn't been able to find anything steady since. VC's are still pretty cautious about where they put their money and none of his ideas have gotten any funding. He can't really go to work anywhere either as there are far more people who are younger and cheaper. He's now living off of a second mortgage that he took on his house.

[Gfunkk44]

 

true, but how can you be sure that MI's non-educator staff isn't necessary based on student needs and numbers? they might not be able to afford enough teachers to fill appropriate needs. so if you had more money, couldn't you afford to replace some non-educator (para-educators is the new term i think) staff with qualified/certified people? i agree with you totally that throwing money at it won't solve the problem, but a little more could help (if used wisely like you said) to curb class sizes, lack of facilities, and the diminishing resources for extra-curriculur activities and the arts.

 

 

The real problem I have with increasing tax for education boils down to the fact that it actually doesn't go there. In michigan ALL of the lottery money taken in by the state was to go directly to the education fund... of course that was later switched to "general funding." Oh not to mention the governor here ran on a platform of higher education money only to try and cut high ed funding 1 year later?

 

Next, school get's a grant for building improvements, (this actually happend in my city) anyway they got the grant which could only be used for building improvements. Well they have over 300,000 dollars left over. And they decide to outfit the middle school with a 255,000 dollar L.E.D. color changing light.... Meanwhile the high school had to stop offering bus service to high schoolers because it was in the red 350,000 dollars.... school board now cries to city hall to pass a millage for the bus line.

 

My city manages to keep enough tax revenue to establish a surplus (this is concurrent with the renovations and bus crisis)... instead of using this "general fund" money to get the bus line back in full service they spent the money on a butification project out by the freeway... the cost of the project was over 1.5 million dollars.

 

So it's not that im opposed to funding schools, it's the fact that the political machine will eat up that money before most of it see's it's way to the schools. Another food for thought... the state average funding per student is around 6,000 dollars... most private schools can operate with 2,500 per child. I think we really need to restructure our education system (at least here in michigan) and get smart about the way government spends money.... but you know that's not going to happen anytime soon.

[Gfunkk44]

It isn't the health care industry - it's the insurance industry.

 

Don't get me started on insurance... I had about an hour long rant the other day about insurance........

[misterhinkydink]

Let's put it this way... I know several people who would say, regardless of the source, or the truth of who wrote that when, it seems real, and to them it seems we really are towards the bottom of the life cycle. What do you think? Do you see it that way too?

 

No, and I bet in one form or another this message has been circulating since 1776.

[NeonVomit]

Ok here's a question for all of you Stateside.

 

Does ANYONE like the Federal Government? If not, are there any movements to secede from the Union?