Consumer Law involving Sale of Stolen Goods, anyone?

[Phantasm]

Hypothetically, you're screwed. The shop met their legal requirements, and are not liable. The instrument is not yours. It belongs to the person it was stolen from. I imagine you could sue the person who stole it, but what are the chances of your recovering, even if you win?

 

 

Yep, this is some super duper hypothetical suckage.

[isaac42]

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

[Renfield]

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

 

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[gspointer]

hypothetically speaking, isn't the delay there partly so the pawnbroker can send a list of recieved items to the police dept. so they can check it against items that have been stolen? there would seem to be some negligence on the part of the dealer or the PD if this is the case as it appears the check was not completed in a timely manner.

[BeeTL]

I'd NEVER let something like this drop. Not EVER.

The bottom line is that the big chain is in a much better position to absorb this loss, and will do so if you are relentless.

Is it worth it to you to pursue?

How much are you out?

Did you pay with a credit card?

[Phantasm]

I'd NEVER let something like this drop. Not EVER. The bottom line is that the big chain is in a much better position to absorb this loss, and will do so if you are relentless. Is it worth it to you to pursue? How much are you out? Did you pay with a credit card?

 

 

Let's say hypothetically that it's $800, and the credit card company says that there's no protection because I did technically receive goods and I signed.

 

If you look at my recent threads, you can piece together how annoying and very tiresome this issue would be if it was happening (theoretically) as I've had a few difficult transactions lately. I think it's time to stop buying used gear for a while.

[BeeTL]

Let's say hypothetically that it's $800, and the credit card company says that there's no protection because I did technically receive goods and I signed. If you look at my recent threads, you can piece together how annoying and very tiresome this issue would be if it was happening (theoretically) as I've had a few difficult transactions lately. I think it's time to stop buying used gear for a while.

WOW!!!

Somehow I missed your reply, but I can't believe this is how it would end...

Is there an update? Any good news?

If not, I'm very sorry for bringing it up again...

[Phantasm]

I still have not found a solution, unfortunately. The hypothetical mastercard bill has arrived, too.

[walkerci]

I still have not found a solution, unfortunately. The hypothetical mastercard bill has arrived, too.

 

 

You don't need credit card "protection".

 

You were sold stolen goods, therefore the sales transaction is null and void.

 

A "sale" consists in the passing of title from the seller to the buyer for a price.

 

While the store may be protected from criminal liability for selling you stolen goods (fencing), they are NOT protected from civil liability for failing to deliver salable merchandise or failing to refund your money.

 

Dispute the charge with Mastercard on the basis that the store failed to deliver the merchandise in good and salable condition.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I still have not found a solution, unfortunately. The hypothetical mastercard bill has arrived, too.

 

 

Yeah, and if it was a credit card, not debit, you'd have a way out of it. Sucks.

 

 

Live and learn...put your pawn purchases on credit.

 

 

Or don't shop pawn.

 

What doesn't add up is that the LA law (did I just write LA law???LOL) that I found says pawn items are not to be sold until after 90 days. You said it was only held 30. Legally the shop had no right to sell. You could investigate that angle.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

You don't need credit card "protection". You were sold stolen goods, therefore the sales transaction is null and void. A "sale" consists in the passing of title from the seller to the buyer for a price. While the store may be protected from criminal liability for selling you stolen goods (fencing), they are NOT protected from civil liability for failing to deliver salable merchandise or failing to refund your money. Dispute the charge with Mastercard on the basis that the store failed to deliver the merchandise in good and salable condition.

 

 

IIRC it was a debit purchase, and MC said they can't help him. IIRC...

[Phantasm]

Well, let me go ahead and drop the hypotheticals and just say outright what happened.

I went into Guitar Center Baton Rouge while I was in town last month. They had a used bass that just said "Lakland Bass" for sale for $799. By inspection, I could see that it was very clearly an American Lakland 4-94 and it had a low serial # stamped on the headstock. It was dirty, had a few easy to repair problems and was missing the electronics control cavity cover plate.

Naturally I asked the sales guy for the back story on the bass; he said that "a college student" had brought it in because "he needed money for school." I asked if it had cleared police hold and he said "yes, it's been here for two months."

I offered $750 and they accepted. I took the bass home, cleaned it up good, fixed the bent tuning key and other problems it had. My intention was to sell it for profit becasue a 4-94 is worth more than I paid. I posted a craigslist ad and a talkbass.com ad.

Meanwhile, I decided that I probably wanted to keep the bass. Even though I have a 4-94 they sounded slightly different and this one had a killer tone. It also had a different preamp, the older Bartolini.

However, I got a call from someone from craigslist and he wanted to look at the bass. I told him sure, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to sell it.

When I answered the door, it was the original owner with two detectives. They had done a background check on me, my band, my wife, and anyone else that might have been an "accomplice." They knew I used my passport this year, heck... they're probably reading this now. I was questioned for several hours and the bass and my receipt were seized.

I did use credit to purchase this bass and it was Mastercard. I called Mastercard and they told me that because goods changed hands, even though the item was stolen, I did accept goods and it was no longer their liability and I CAN NOT dispute the sale. I called 5 times... every person at Mastercard said the same thing.

I went to GC Baton Rouge and asked for the manager. He was on vacation so I spoke to the assistant manager. He listend to my story and called hist loss prevention department who told him that GC is not liable because the bass cleared police hold. I was told to pursue restitution from the police department.

I called Guitar Center corporate. They have verbally offered to refund my money if the police department will give them copies of some paperwork. They are not legally responsible but ethically they did sell me stolen goods and are an insured national business. The problem now is that I can't get the police to return my phone calls.

At this point I'd just like my money back. I've given up on the hopes that I'll be reimbursed for the work I put into the bass, the strings, etc. and I'm hoping that I don't just lose money.

It's a total mess, but there's the full story. The worst part is that I was just going to keep the bass because it sounded fantastic... I had already decided when the guy was on his way that I wasn't going to sell it.

I am happy that the original owner has hope to be reuinited with his bass... he was very emotional when he saw it. But, he collected insurance on the theft and will have to pay the insurance company a pretty penny to get his bass back!

[gspointer]

That sucks, and it sounds like the P.D. was negligent.

[Renfield]

That sucks, and it sounds like the P.D. was negligent.

 

 

A little, and don't want to return calls because they either know they erred a little on it, or just wrote you off as a criminal, so you are below them and not worth the time. I'd go there in person and insist on assistance, that's a lot of scratch to just forget about.

[Phantasm]

Yep, and you guys can imagine how hard I'm thinking it will be to try to "sue the police."

[gspointer]

Yep, and you guys can imagine how hard I'm thinking it will be to try to "sue the police."

 

 

Man, that would not be worth 800 to me, you might win the cash but lose in the long run.

[Phantasm]

Man, that would not be worth 800 to me, you might win the cash but lose in the long run.

 

 

Yep, basically it's impossible. That's why I'm hoping to get my paperwork and let GC make good on their verbal commitment.

[gspointer]

Yep, basically it's impossible. That's why I'm hoping to get my paperwork and let GC make good on their verbal commitment.

 

 

I would go down there in person, the amount of hassle they already exposed you to after you showed them the receipt is pretty bad on its own. I doubt anyone sells a stolen bass and has gone to the trouble of making an easily verified (if false) bogus receipt.

[isaac42]

Yep, and you guys can imagine how hard I'm thinking it will be to try to "sue the police."

 

 

You're not to that point yet. Do you know any lawyers? What I think you need right now is a letter from a lawyer, pointing out where they were negligent, and how they can fix things with just a few pieces of paper.

[isaac42]

Yep, basically it's impossible. That's why I'm hoping to get my paperwork and let GC make good on their verbal commitment.

 

 

That should be your goal. Get the paperwork. Make it easier for the police to give you the paperwork than not to.

[BeeTL]

Get another copy of the receipt from Guitar Center.

With that in hand you should easily be able to get a copy of the original complaint and any paperowrk surrounding the seizure of the bass as a matter of public record.

Did you get the officer's name and badge number?

This should be easy enough, if not a total pain in the ass to straighten out.

[Phantasm]

Well, I am at guitar center as I type this. Manager said he would not be here but assistant manager would have a check and would offer a deal for mytrouble.

Waited 27 minutes for the guy to come out and greet me. Says he has no idea what to do and will air some phone calls.

17 minutes later I'm still waiting. The salesgiys are looking at me with eyes of hate. The door girl was rude as soon as I told her my name.

Really comfy here.

[greenshag]

Phantasm-you have a pm, hope it helps.

[Guttermouth]

Well, I am at guitar center as I type this. Manager said he would not be here but assistant manager would have a check and would offer a deal for mytrouble. Waited 27 minutes for the guy to come out and greet me. Says he has no idea what to do and will air some phone calls. 17 minutes later I'm still waiting. The salesgiys are looking at me with eyes of hate. The door girl was rude as soon as I told her my name. Really comfy here.

 

 

 

 

dude,

f' that. they should be kissing your ass.maybe you should stand by the door and inform every customer that comes in of the situation? or better yet - wait untill each salesman is with a prospective buyer and just casually tap them on the shoulder and say " excuse me but, do you have any MORE stolen instruments i could buy?"

:poke:

[fretless]

What GC is that , so I never ever step foot inside that place .