Members King Kashue Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 What is Iceland's situation? -Economy and banking trashed (largest banking collapse in World History, as measured relative to size of national economy) -State seized control over half the major banks -Raised interest rates to 18% -Coalition government collapsed -Currency 1/3 the value it was six months ago -Foreign investors' accounts frozen -Unemployment tripled -Rapidly rising inflation (well into double digits and rising) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lokidecat Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Detach your success from whatever tales are swirling around you. There are people who are prospering in spite of claims that economies are unraveling and there are no jobs. And, you can be {censored}ed out of your brains in a fantastic economy. All of your dreams may not come true, and that's ok if you're graceful about it. You are going to be fine--even if you die sitting at the kitchen table worrying about a bad economy. You're going to be perfectly fine. Wow. You don't have to talk me in off the ledge. I'm doing just fine. Focus on the now, taking care of things. I'm saving some money, spending others. I feel I need to not be paranoid and buckle under the pressure of "OMG COLLAPSE" which is why I was considering a few purchases with my tax return instead of adding it to my savings account. My definition of success is waking up and being able to experience life one more day. *shrug* Come what may, I have a great family, a loving girlfriend, and plenty of hobbies to spend my time on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 -Economy and banking trashed (largest banking collapse in World History, as measured relative to size of national economy)-State seized control over half the major banks-Raised interest rates to 18%-Coalition government collapsed-Currency 1/3 the value it was six months ago-Foreign investors' accounts frozen-Unemployment tripled-Rapidly rising inflation (well into double digits and rising) Was it relevant to have Iceland brought up in this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Minuscule? Oooookay... As lug said, about 3% - hardly "bankrupting"... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hey, could be like our stupid government.. to stimulate the economy they decided it would be a good idea to give pensioners and single parents $2000 (or whatever it was).. So they all put it in the bank.. None got spent, economy got no kick start, now we have a deficit.. Their plan this week? give low income earners a tax cut.. Uhh.. nice.. but they are already struggling, giving them a tax cut won't give them any discernible extra disposable income, it will give them more to get by (again, thats a good thing, but won't really have the desired effect..). I want to address this. I heard the same explanation from Obama's press secretary in a news conference last week..that we all banked our gov't checks. Really? I didn't, and I don't know anyone who did..the big talk was "hey watcha gonna do with yer guvmint check?". I used it to pay for some much needed life essentials (I'm very lucky to not have any credit card debt), and most of the people I know paid down credit card debt and splurged on a dinner or something nice, if small, for themselves. I don't know anyone who banked it. And I think they miss the boat with this...even if people banked it, they are more likely to still spend it in the near future, having some small measure of "security" by having a little coin in the bank. I think it's BS to claim that some economists theorizing are going to accurately guess what we spent on, and it's being used as justification to not give us the money directly. Instead it's gonna be given directly to big corps and banks? Yeah, that'll stimulate the economy...they've done a GREAT job with the hundreds of billions WE'VE given them so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 I don't. I don't believe it will come to pass, so it will not be helpful.Seriously, every President since at least Nixon has promised this, and none has followed through. Every president since Nixon has asked for the line-item veto...and I'm sure pigs will fly before that ever comes to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 We're really completely screwing up our economy right now, aren't we? We aren't. The government is and both party's are at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 We aren't. The government is and both party's are at fault. Corporate America is, has been. We're at least partially complicit by buying foreign goods. The government is simply allowing it to happen, which is actually what they should be doing. Jumping in this late is where there's a problem; let company's fail, let this {censored}er hit bottom and recover on its own. A decade of FDR showed what a mess the government can make of trying to right a wrong economy. We learn nothing from our own past, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 How does it help to try to hang fault around someone's neck? What that does it overly-simplify something that's complicated. How about if we all blame ourselves for not minding our neighbors' business and allowing them to get into bad mortgages? Or, blame the whole state of California for allowing its citizens too much power with all the referendums they get to vote on; then they vote to have all kinds of great stuff, and never vote for a way to pay for it. There can be all kinds of blame to spread around, and what does it help? Ok. I'll take personal blame for the economy, and I hope everyone will accept my apology. I promise not to do it again. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 How does it help to try to hang fault around someone's neck? What that does it overly-simplify something that's complicated.How about if we all blame ourselves for not minding our neighbors' business and allowing them to get into bad mortgages? Or, blame the whole state of California for allowing its citizens too much power with all the referendums they get to vote on; then they vote to have all kinds of great stuff, and never vote for a way to pay for it.There can be all kinds of blame to spread around, and what does it help?Ok. I'll take personal blame for the economy, and I hope everyone will accept my apology. I promise not to do it again. Now what? Identifying the cause of a problem is a fundamental aspect of troubleshooting. If the cause is found and nothing is done about it but finger-pointing, then it's simply "blame". If it's found and action is taken to rectify it, it's a possible step in the right direction. And that's where this country falls flat on its face. We see problems, figure out who or what is causing them, and then get bored when it's determined a solution will be tough, painful or costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WillPlay4food Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Every president since Nixon has asked for the line-item veto...and I'm sure pigs will fly before that ever comes to pass. Clinton got the line-item veto, then it was declared unconstitutional by the courts and repealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted February 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 This guy didn't explain a damned thing. No context, no discussion of inflation, recession, what the point of the gold standard was and why we're no longer on it. There's no serious representation from the other side of his rant. Lack of an economics lesson aside, what did you disagree with in regards to the red line? Is printing money good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Clinton got the line-item veto, then it was declared unconstitutional by the courts and repealed. Yup, that bill/law was seriously flawed, and I think there's likely no way to reword it into a law that passes muster without a Constitutional Amendment. Yeah....that'll happen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 Lack of an economics lesson aside, what did you disagree with in regards to the red line? Is printing money good?Oh, let me answer that one. "No." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Lack of an economics lesson aside, what did you disagree with in regards to the red line? Is printing money good? Printing money is neither good nor bad. What's the intention behind it? How was it decided that printing money would be effective (among other options) in satisfying the intention? I've got nothing from that video to agree or disagree with. Actually, my main disagreement is that the guy was all worked up about something and never made the case for being worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Identifying the cause of a problem is a fundamental aspect of troubleshooting. If the cause is found and nothing is done about it but finger-pointing, then it's simply "blame". If it's found and action is taken to rectify it, it's a possible step in the right direction.And that's where this country falls flat on its face. We see problems, figure out who or what is causing them, and then get bored when it's determined a solution will be tough, painful or costly. Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. I definitely understand troubleshooting. But I do, far too often, see a perverse pleasure in finger-pointing as a way to get oneself off the hook. If you and I were in a sinking canoe, I might happily drown along with you if I can believe that it's your fault that the canoe is sinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Oh, let me answer that one. "No." No? Help us understand why you say "no." Help me see that the sky is indeed falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 Oh, I was talking about OUR (Australia) government.. who seem to be following your government down a {censored}ty path.. Sorry, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ok. Now we're getting somewhere.I definitely understand troubleshooting. But I do, far too often, see a perverse pleasure in finger-pointing as a way to get oneself off the hook. If you and I were in a sinking canoe, I might happily drown along with you if I can believe that it's your fault that the canoe is sinking. If I'm bailing water *into* the canoe, is it more important to spare my feelings of guilt for causing us to sink, or to get me to reverse my action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 Wow. You don't have to talk me in off the ledge. I'm doing just fine. Focus on the now, taking care of things. I'm saving some money, spending others. I feel I need to not be paranoid and buckle under the pressure of "OMG COLLAPSE" which is why I was considering a few purchases with my tax return instead of adding it to my savings account. My definition of success is waking up and being able to experience life one more day. *shrug* Come what may, I have a great family, a loving girlfriend, and plenty of hobbies to spend my time on. And my corkscrew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 As lug said, about 3% - hardly "bankrupting"... - georgestrings Seems to me that it depends on where you start. Say I make $50K a year. 3% of that is $1500. If I'm living within my means, blowing $1500 isn't going to break me, but I'll still notice it, so I don't consider it minuscule. OTOH, if I'm already on the edge, living from loan to loan from the payday loan place, blowing $1500 may very well bankrupt me. I think that, as a nation, we're closer to the latter than the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 I want to address this. I heard the same explanation from Obama's press secretary in a news conference last week..that we all banked our gov't checks. Really? I didn't, and I don't know anyone who did..the big talk was "hey watcha gonna do with yer guvmint check?". I used it to pay for some much needed life essentials (I'm very lucky to not have any credit card debt), and most of the people I know paid down credit card debt and splurged on a dinner or something nice, if small, for themselves. I don't know anyone who banked it. And I think they miss the boat with this...even if people banked it, they are more likely to still spend it in the near future, having some small measure of "security" by having a little coin in the bank. I think it's BS to claim that some economists theorizing are going to accurately guess what we spent on, and it's being used as justification to not give us the money directly. Instead it's gonna be given directly to big corps and banks? Yeah, that'll stimulate the economy...they've done a GREAT job with the hundreds of billions WE'VE given them so far... I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 Identifying the cause of a problem is a fundamental aspect of troubleshooting. If the cause is found and nothing is done about it but finger-pointing, then it's simply "blame". If it's found and action is taken to rectify it, it's a possible step in the right direction.And that's where this country falls flat on its face. We see problems, figure out who or what is causing them, and then get bored when it's determined a solution will be tough, painful or costly. Good analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Seems to me that it depends on where you start. Say I make $50K a year. 3% of that is $1500. If I'm living within my means, blowing $1500 isn't going to break me, but I'll still notice it, so I don't consider it minuscule. OTOH, if I'm already on the edge, living from loan to loan from the payday loan place, blowing $1500 may very well bankrupt me. I think that, as a nation, we're closer to the latter than the former. But it's depends on what you think is "blowing it". Personally, I believe we blow a lot more money on a whole lot of stuff that is far more worthless than the Iraq war. Comes down to opinion as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 2, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2009 Oh, let me answer that one. "No." Printing money is necessary. What else would you use for economic transactions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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