US Medical System

[funkrockfreedomfighter]

Someone mentioned Sicko in this thread and I'm glad they did. I hope a lot of people watch it because I feel they will come out pissed off. I would support socialized medicine any day. It's unfortunate that many people jump on others who support socialized medicine or other ideas that are perceived as "anti-American." I'm sick of the "if you don't like it leave" mentality. Why not try to change it?

It's too bad leaving is easier than changing the system

[Synonym Music]

I differentiate between the hospital bills and the medical staff that treat you. One has very little to do with the other.

They have plenty to do with each other. They earn those dollars, and those happen to come out of my pocket.

I gotta give them their due respect, but if you're uninsured..... "Ouch!" is all I have to say. Expecially when those flunky phlebotomists stab your arm over and over and over!

[Reverend179]

Someone mentioned Sicko in this thread and I'm glad they did. I hope a lot of people watch it because I feel they will come out pissed off. I would support socialized medicine any day. It's unfortunate that many people jump on others who support socialized medicine or other ideas that are perceived as "anti-American." I'm sick of the "if you don't like it leave" mentality. Why not try to change it? It's too bad leaving is easier than changing the system

Because Socialized health care is really against the ideal of this country and the tenets it's formed upon.

[funkrockfreedomfighter]

Because Socialized health care is really against the ideal of this country and the tenets it's formed upon.

I'm doing my best to not say anything too remotely stupid (because politics/government aren't anything I'm too particularly good at) but if that is the case then why do we have welfare? It seems to me that welfare would contradict the same "American standards" that socialized medicine would. Maybe? {censored} I don't know, I'm a psych major Could I go out on a limb and say socialized medicine would never work because too few people making too much money who feed the same politicians/organizations that perpetuate a healthcare system that undermines healthcare in the name of profits? Maybe. Again, I don't {censored}ing know.

[sunburstbasser]

Socialized medicine has its own problems in more than a few countries, like several months of wait time in cases. Sicko is just another Moore film; you won't see any good points about what he opposes or bad points about what he supports.

[funkrockfreedomfighter]

Socialized medicine has its own problems in more than a few countries, like several months of wait time in cases. Sicko is just another Moore film; you won't see any good points about what he opposes or bad points about what he supports.

 

 

So worst case it's several months waiting (socialized) or not being able to see anyone at all(US)?

 

I like Moore's films but I do feel the need to check out his points just like any other piece of propaganda.

[J.]

Sometimes when you see the bill and the care you actually get, it's very hard to agree with that. Very hard.

 

 

Haha. I know exactly what you mean. I recently got a bill for a procedure that (in my mind) should've been pretty cheap, and was absolutely floored at the total. I've got a really screwed up lower intestine so they tried shooting botox into one of my pelvic muscles. The whole visit was about 45 minutes, and the vast majority of that was spent in the waiting room reading magazines. The actual procedure itself took five, maybe six minutes tops. The doctor came in, gave me the shots, and left. Quicker than getting blood drawn. My bill? $2300. I couldn't believe it. Luckily I have insurance, but after the $600 deductible and the 70/30 split I'm still in for almost a grand. I'll have to figure out a way to get that paid now.

[Perfessor]

Insurance companies are wonderful and friendly.

[hawkhuff]

Socialized medicine will be better than the system we have? Really?

In my opinion the largely uneducated US public buys the idea of free anything. There is no such thing as free but alas, the poor ignorant public are unable to see this and they really believe the government is looking out for their best interests.

I wonder if moore would submit to standing in line and waiting for treatment, I think not. I wonder if moore knows that if the government takes over the healtchare system and they begin to tell him what to eat and what not to eat that he will, in fact, stop eating all that he ingests. It will come to that.

Has anyone here seen ANY government agency that isn't {censored}ed up? Yeah, let's run our heathcare system like they run the post office, the DMV, Social Security, DOE, NSA, DOJ, etc.

The problem is, everyone wants it and they want it now. Does anyone know of any government agency that can do that? Anyone know of any government agency that works on the premise of service to the customer? I don't.

I've worked in healthcare for twenty years and I can tell you that it's {censored}ed up because government has too much of a hand in it now. Does anyone wonder why in the marketplace it is against the law to lower prices to spur competition in heathcare? It's a big problem and one that is in large part propagated by our loving, customer friendly government agencies; HCFA, JCAHO, FDA, DOH, CPS, and OSHA. They aren't looking out for you, they each have their own agendas and they aren't congruent to yours, much as you would like to believe.

The government and slimy politicians will in fact take bull{censored} and sprinkle sugar on it, call it candy, and the public will eat it. Either way, it is still bull{censored}.

So, let's hear it for our government schools who are also doing a bang up job of completely dumbing down our students!

[Banta]

We're not socialist yet, but we're heading in that direction. It's just a matter of time before we're as screwed-up as the rest of the "free world."

[lug]

I'm doing my best to not say anything too remotely stupid (because politics/government aren't anything I'm too particularly good at) but if that is the case then why do we have welfare? It seems to me that welfare would contradict the same "American standards" that socialized medicine would. Maybe? {censored} I don't know, I'm a psych major Could I go out on a limb and say socialized medicine would never work because too few people making too much money who feed the same politicians/organizations that perpetuate a healthcare system that undermines healthcare in the name of profits? Maybe. Again, I don't {censored}ing know.

Honestly, I'd take socialized medicine over welfare any day of the week. I'd rather not have too much of either, but at least with socialized medicine you would have a lot less cradle to grave bilking of the tax dollars we pay. As an individual you would get something for your tax dollar, no matter how ineffecient it is. I propose this....Have socialized medicine but you have to fund it only out of cuurent welfare funds. Wanna hear people squeal?

[walkerci]

If you don't think having to pay insurance rates like these add to the average cost of care, you need to take a math course. Remember this money plus all the money won in lawsuits are pulled out of the healthcare system. Should we be able to sue? Of course. The problem is the "soak the rich doctor" mentality lots of juries (those people to dumb to get out of jury duty) have.

And to top it off...

Patients that don't pay ANYTHING for their medical care sue for frivilous reasons or simply because they are unhappy with the outcome.
Sometimes even with the very best medical care, things go badly.
That does not mean that anyone did anything wrong and the patient is entitled to compensation.

The law needs to be changed such that you can only sue a duly licensed healthcare professional for Gross Negligence that resulted in permanent injury.

[burdizzos]

I'd be content with a loser pays system. That way no one is going to sue unless they know they are in the right.

[Muddslide]

The health care industry is {censored}ed in this country. I have insurance through my work for my family and I pay $500 a month for it-- yet the insurance company refuses to cover anything, claiming everything we've been to a doctor for since we moved here is a "pre-existing condition"...according to my HR department, I can't opt out of the insurance either, so I'm over a barrel saddled with very hihg premiums, co-pays for every visit and prescription, AND full bills for everything we've been seen for so far.

The US is the only modernized Western nation without national health care and it's absolutely shameful. People fear the government having their hands in it or fear "socialism" but are happy to have other socialized constructs like public schools, road maintenance, police departments, etc.

The idea that US health care is intrinsically "better" is a myth.

The idea that only in the US do you have a "choice" of doctors is a myth (and it's also a myth that you DO have a choice of doctors IN the US.)

The same people who speak out against the government having a universal health care system are happy to let corporations reap massive profits at the expense of the less fortunate through denying claims whenever possible.

It's beyond my understanding, but I think some of it comes from the mistaken idea that "America is Number One!" because we (supposedly) don't have socialized programs or something. It's horse{censored}.

[NeonVomit]

I'm glad to have the 'safety net' of my national health care system (I'm in Cyprus at the moment). It's an efficiant system in small, well off countries like Norway, Cyprus, Finland, Switzerland etc. and it works well.

Somewhere as large and diverse as the US... I don't know.

I don't get how you can pay for insurance and then not get any though...

[J.]

That's just the nature of business. Insurance companies are "for profit" entities, and generally they do it by collecting more money in premiums than they pay out in claims. One of the ways to maximize revenue is to deny claims. Some companies are better than others. I remember my mom fighting with her insurance company all the time when I was young. She was always petitioning them and trying to get them to pick up the tab on stuff she though they should be covering. Sometimes they'll deny stuff even though it's pretty obvious it should be covered in your plan. You have to be diligent with some of them.

 

On another note, does anyone know where the world healthcare rankings can be found? If I remember correctly, there was a list with the countries (in terms of healthcare) listed in descending order from best to worst. I think the USA was thirtysomething. I've heard it referenced before but I've never looked at it or read any criticisms thereof.

[Jazz Ad]

Mutualist insurance companies make no profits. It doesn't make them less efficient, quite the opposite.

 

I can tell you how ridiculous the US healthcare system looks from outside.

It resolves to : The US taxpayer cherishes his liberty so much that he prefer paying to fund a system that gives him no benefit, rather than for a system that would cover his medical needs at the same time for less money.

[Bonoman]

Health care should be a basic human right and never be for profit. Why put the undue stress upon an ailing person that, not only do they have to worry about getting better, but they have to worry about losing their home to do it? How does that make sense? You don't like Universal Coverage because of the boogie-man that comes with the word "socialized"? How about if you de-socialize your police and fire departments? Would you like to pay a premium every time you have to call the cops? Would you like to have to call your insurance company before you can call the fire trucks if your house is burning down to make sure you're covered for their use of water? I hate to tell you lovely people, but you're already a social democracy; you're just getting screwed on the health-care aspect of it.

Your country is based on the pursuit of happiness and equality for all, correct? So, how does that not translate into health care? I'll say it again, it's a basic human right.

[Goofball Jones]

I sometimes feel the mentality here in the US with some that oppose a universal health-care system is if you can't afford health insurance or don't have a job that provides it, it's your fault, not ours. You should have worked harder and made more money so you could have afforded it. You're poor and have a bad job or no job at all? Not our fault, you're not working hard enough. Maybe you don't deserve medical attention.

 

Not to mention some hospitals dumping patients still in their hospital gowns on Skid Ro when they find they can't pay their medical bills. Guess they didn't work hard enough in life. Maybe soon they'll just pass a law making it illegal to be poor.

[Mytola]

Health care should be a basic human right and never be for profit. Why put the undue stress upon an ailing person that, not only do they have to worry about getting better, but they have to worry about losing their home to do it? How does that make sense? You don't like Universal Coverage because of the boogie-man that comes with the word "socialized"? How about if you de-socialize your police and fire departments? Would you like to pay a premium every time you have to call the cops? Would you like to have to call your insurance company before you can call the fire trucks if your house is burning down to make sure you're covered for their use of water? I hate to tell you lovely people, but you're already a social democracy; you're just getting screwed on the health-care aspect of it. Your country is based on the pursuit of happiness and equality for all, correct? So, how does that not translate into health care? I'll say it again, it's a basic human right.

 

 

Amen.

[burdizzos]

 

I can tell you how ridiculous the US healthcare system looks from outside. It resolves to : The US taxpayer cherishes his liberty so much that he prefer paying to fund a system that gives him no benefit, rather than for a system that would cover his medical needs at the same time for less money.

 

 

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?

[Muddslide]

I don't get how you can pay for insurance and then not get any though...

 

 

It's because it's a huge racket. We pay a dear price for insurance--either through the workplace or with personal policies-- and it is the job of the insurance companies to do their best to avoid pay-outs to the doctors we see. This is how they maximize profits.

 

In my case, as I was saying, I was diagnosed with diabetes three years ago. My daughter had a bladder infection a year and a half ago. My wife had a cardiac event that necessitated her going to the emergency room--it turns out it is related to her adrenal gland and its effect on her heart, but that's another matter...

 

At any rate, I moved and began a new job in April. Because my wife's heart issue, my daughter's bladder infection and my diabetes were all things we had been seen for prior to having my current insurance policy, the company is claiming "pre-existing condition" and will not pay one red cent.

 

It is unconscionable and shameful that ever man woman and child who is a citizen of the US doesn't have cradle-to-grave health coverage. Until this happens, anyone who claims "America is Number One" is just an ignorant, jingoistic redneck moron.

[Muddslide]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?

 

 

I think he means that americans are so ridiculously phobic about anything that smacks of "socialism" (even though we have tons of socialist programs and constructs in the US) because they have been told it's evil by their leaders and most don't think for themselves--that they would rather pay tons of money to private corporations whose primary objective is to take money from their clients and then NOT provide services whenever possible, rather than have a slight increase in taxes in order to provide actual standardized health care for everyone.

[burdizzos]

Woohoo, I'm a redneck moron!

 

Kickass!

 

 

Then again, my health insurance is the tits. I have a great job and my wife has a great job. We have no children and manage our money very well. What pisses me off though, is that in the last six years, I've paid over $10k in insurance premiums and I've only recouped about $500 of that in treatment.

 

If we had a sweet universal healthcare system, my wife and I would get the privilege of paying $10k annually.

[burdizzos]

 

I think he means that americans are so ridiculously phobic about anything that smacks of "socialism" (even though we have tons of socialist programs and constructs in the US) because they have been told it's evil by their leaders and most don't think for themselves--that they would rather pay tons of money to private corporations whose primary objective is to take money from their clients and then NOT provide services whenever possible, rather than have a slight increase in taxes in order to provide actual standardized health care for everyone.

 

 

Ah, now I can't think for myself, I guess I should find out what it means to be a moron.

 

Can you quantify the "slight increase"?

 

I'm curious, how much is it going to cost me so that I can trust my healthcare to the same morons that run the USPS and IRS.