US Medical System

[RSBro]

 

And the unfortunate people who can't afford insurance? Should they suffer and get sub-par service and help? Being forced out of hospital before you are fully recovered is a really bad idea, and think of the stress which is caused by constantly worrying about your health if you aren't insured. Not everyone can get insured at reasonable prices either. Not helping those who are less fortunate than yourselfs is plain wrong and egoistic.

 

 

There's a big difference in charity as opposed to just taking hard-earned money from everyone (or at least those who work) and dump it in a big pot and say "Ok, now who do we give it to?".

Who makes that decision? Who's life is more valuable? Sorry but it's not my job or my interest to support people who do not support themselves.

With the way our already out of control spending system goes, the LAST thing we need is more unborrowed funds for the Fed to do with it as they please.

[lug]

Insurance prices are so high cause everyone and their mom-in-law wants to become independently wealthy from a lawsuit of any kind, like for making scissors "sharp" or coffee "hot"...

If you don't think having to pay insurance rates like these add to the average cost of care, you need to take a math course. Remember this money plus all the money won in lawsuits are pulled out of the healthcare system. Should we be able to sue? Of course. The problem is the "soak the rich doctor" mentality lots of juries (those people to dumb to get out of jury duty) have.

[Ender_rpm]

F'in florida. All these dang old people...

[brotherbass]

And the unfortunate people who can't afford insurance? Should they suffer and get sub-par service and help? Being forced out of hospital before you are fully recovered is a really bad idea, and think of the stress which is caused by constantly worrying about your health if you aren't insured. Not everyone can get insured at reasonable prices either. Not helping those who are less fortunate than yourselfs is plain wrong and egoistic.

 

 

Please read the post that you quoted. We do have a saftey net and the service is not sub-par, just not as good. I can buy a Toyota and it will get me from place to place, or I can by a luxary car and go from place to place with all the comforts that I can afford. At the end of the day, I still went from place to place. This program is funded on the State and Federal level. I think that you are at best misinformed, and at worst blind. If you are stressed out about health care, the get a job that offers health care! Please know that I worked 50 hrs a week for 6.50 an hour as a check-out person at a local grocery store because....they offered health insurance! I could have made alot more money working someware else, but I had a wife, a son and we needed health coverage. We scraped by for 6 years doing this until I could find a better job making more money and maintain health care. We had old cars and never went out to eat, and lived in a clean appt. in a old part of town. We made due because that is what we had to do. No one and I mean no one owes you anything. You say "Not everyone can get insured at reasonable prices either" Wrong. Not everyone is willing to scrafice other things to pay for their own way. This argument iwll not work as I have lived on both sides of the fence.

[SirMike1983]

Here's my outlook on the matter, take it for what you will:

We hear much talk in the US of late about a massive government program to cover everyone, but this can become woefully inefficient and overly expensive. Anyone who has ever been to the DMV has seen this at work first-hand. Long waits, and expensive fees on top of the taxes you already pay to run the thing in general. As another example- look at the backlog of processing that has happened in the realm of US Passports of late. In short un-checked monopolies, even government ones, are damaging. This may be especially true of the US, where the large size of the country would require a massive and expensive government plan. In Sweden, for example, they have many national programs. But the US is massive in size, diversity, and need by comparison. What works in a smaller country may prove disasterous in a larger one. These are practical considerations.

In addition I think the tradition of small government and individuals making their own way in the US system is strong. The federal government has limitations on what it can do (though the way we act now, you'd wonder about that). Where in our Federal Constitution exists a direct imperative to the creation of national healthcare? -no where. The Constition is silent on insurance plans and national healthcare. It is dangerous to simply infer whatever we want in the text of any law, but especially of the Constitution. What of the "general welfare clause"? -how much are you prepared to stretch the definition? If "general welfare" simply means whatever you want it to because you want to infer your own biases or self-manufactured ideas(and the gov't can therefore do whatever it wants) we effectively have no Constitution at all- a dangerous thing at best. I think there is no Constitutional basis for this plan at the Federal level then, because we should read the Constitution to empower the Federal government to do only certain, enumerated things. If the MAJORITY really wants it in there, they can amend it through the proper democratic process.

Appropriate to this time of year, I wonder if the people who fought in the Revolution for fairer governance, lower taxes, and greater liberties would be in favor of such big government programs. I think they'd be appalled.

[ranjaman]

 

If you lived in the US, you would be more than welcome to help out those less fortunate than yourself with their medical needs. It is not the role of our government to take care of all our wants and needs, as difficult as this idea may seem to you we are responsible for ourselves, and that is the way of things. It's also a very good way of things, and has allowed us to have the best medical care available worldwide. Don't think so? How many foreign VIP's make their way to the Mayo clinic when they get serious health problems?

 

 

I think the quality of your medical care has more to do with the level of you r universities and the higher pay, than with your health care system.

 

And to clear up a common misconception, we (as most other countries in Europe) do not have free medical care, but we have a system of obligatory health care insurance.

Everyone pays the same premium for the same basic insurance coverage and in addition to that you can pay for extra options like orthodontology or plastic surgery.

About 1% of our population is not insured, either because they can't/won't pay or because of religious reasons, these people are eligible for urgent care only.

[J.]

 

 

I agree completely. While I think socialized universal healthcare is wonderful in theory, the United States gov't does not have the ability to run something like that. If they began universal care in the US, it would most likely be a complete disaster.

[bassment zombie]

 

As another example- look at the backlog of processing that has happened in the realm of US Passports of late.

 

FYI - I heard the U.S. gov't officials in charge of 'passports' or whatever speaking about this on NPR a few weeks ago, and they said that the reason for this backlog was that the passport officials anticipated X number of applications and were prepared for that number, however, they didn't anticipate the reaction of the American people that caused XXX number of Americans to rush to apply for passports. They used data calculated on the numbers of Americans who would travel abroad and/or apply, but didn't take into account the 'rush' mentality...

[SirMike1983]

FYI - I heard the U.S. gov't officials in charge of 'passports' or whatever speaking about this on NPR a few weeks ago, and they said that the reason for this backlog was that the passport officials anticipated X number of applications and were prepared for that number, however, they didn't anticipate the reaction of the American people that caused XXX number of Americans to rush to apply for passports. They used data calculated on the numbers of Americans who would travel abroad and/or apply, but didn't take into account the 'rush' mentality...

 

 

Right- the government had planned it out and ended up dropping the ball by miscalculating the response. It's scary to think what would happen if they did the same with hospitals and healthcare. With little alternative to government processing, you're stuck with their mistakes. You'd love to be able to say "screw you then, I can go elsewhere!", but you're stuck. Some people have really been stuck too- on the local news here in Maryland there was a story of one woman who did all her paperwork a full 10 months in advance of her vacation and still didn't get them in time. She had to cancel.

[venturawest]

you know, as a surgeon who takes care of the 50% uninsured/underinsured population of south florida, i could really jump in the fray here and tell you what's really going on. but right now, given what i've been through today, reading this thread just makes me want to bitch-slap all of you. just be grateful for the things in life that you've been given.

[lug]

I'm interested in what kind of compensation Doc's and nurses get under socialized Medicine. In my book, if anyone deserves the dough they make, it's most medical professionals.

[Mytola]

I'm interested in what kind of compensation Doc's and nurses get under socialized Medicine. In my book, if anyone deserves the dough they make, it's most medical professionals.

 

 

Over here, and in most of Europe, Docs earn really well. Nurses don't earn nearly as much, but it still ain't bad.

[lug]

Over here, and in most of Europe, Docs earn really well. Nurses don't earn nearly as much, but it still ain't bad.

 

 

Nurses here make very good pay, but the burn out rate is still quite high. Great job if you can handle it.

[SirMike1983]

I remember when I was first at university and I talked some with a med student I roomed with. He talked about disecting cadavres as if it was a trip to the store. The nurse who lived down the hall was the same way. I think my eyes bugged out! I don't have the stomach! Gotta have respect for some of those guys.

[RSBro]

Nurses here make very good pay, but the burn out rate is still quite high. Great job if you can handle it.

 

 

Yep.

About half of my accounting classes were women 30-35 who had done nursing for 5~7 years and couldn't take it anymore, regardless of the pay increases they were offered.

[J.]

you know, as a surgeon who takes care of the 50% uninsured/underinsured population of south florida, i could really jump in the fray here and tell you what's really going on. but right now, given what i've been through today, reading this thread just makes me want to bitch-slap all of you. just be grateful for the things in life that you've been given.

 

 

After you've had time to rest and recover from your day, please come back and tell us what's really going on. It would be nice to have a physician's perspective.

[J.]

Nurses here make very good pay, but the burn out rate is still quite high. Great job if you can handle it.

 

 

No shortage of jobs either. It seems like every place is looking to hire more nurses. Here in MN the big union that most nurses are part of (or so I heard on the radio) just ratified a new contract. In four years, starting pay for an RN fresh out of college will be $53k a year. Not bad at all for being a rookie with a bachelor's degree!

[lug]

No shortage of jobs either. It seems like every place is looking to hire more nurses. Here in MN the big union that most nurses are part of (or so I heard on the radio) just ratified a new contract. In four years, starting pay for an RN fresh out of college will be $53k a year. Not bad at all for being a rookie with a bachelor's degree!

 

 

You can get a concentrated RN course in a two year program in Texas but must have some prereqs to qualify, so it ends up being about 3 years. My wife got to go into Labor and Delivery straight out of school and started mid 40Ks. After a year, any of the specialties (L and D, ICU, Emergancy, Oncology) can easily make $60K to $70K fulltime and can go into further specialies like nurse nurse anaesthetist were the really big money starts.

[RSBro]

You can get a concentrated RN course in a two year program in Texas but must have some prereqs to qualify, so it ends up being about 3 years. My wife got to go into Labor and Delivery straight out of school and started mid 40Ks. After a year, any of the specialties (L and D, ICU, Emergancy, Oncology) can easily make $60K to $70K fulltime and can go into further specialies like nurse nurse anaesthetist were the really big money starts.

 

 

Yeah, if you marry a nurse or plan to, try and wait til after college.

They're quite grouchy during clinicals and you get zero time together. Main reason my ex of 2 1/2 year split and didn't get married. I couldn't live like that w/ her being gone random hours on random days.

[ranjaman]

I'm interested in what kind of compensation Doc's and nurses get under socialized Medicine. In my book, if anyone deserves the dough they make, it's most medical professionals.

 

 

Resident surgeons start at 60k euros and go up to 130k around here.

Freelance specialists sometimes double that.

[lug]

Yeah, if you marry a nurse or plan to, try and wait til after college. They're quite grouchy during clinicals and you get zero time together. Main reason my ex of 2 1/2 year split and didn't get married. I couldn't live like that w/ her being gone random hours on random days.

It is a trying time. Mrs. Lug didn't get her nursing degree until all the kids were in school. I believe her prime motivation was "I'm not getting stuck at home with all these lil bastages! "

[Synonym Music]

I'm interested in what kind of compensation Doc's and nurses get under socialized Medicine. In my book, if anyone deserves the dough they make, it's most medical professionals.

 

 

Sometimes when you see the bill and the care you actually get, it's very hard to agree with that. Very hard.

 

But nonetheless..... I guess they deserve it. There are plenty of people behind the scenes who deserve near equal pay however...

[lug]

Sometimes when you see the bill and the care you actually get, it's very hard to agree with that. Very hard. But nonetheless..... I guess they deserve it. There are plenty of people behind the scenes who deserve near equal pay however...

 

 

I differentiate between the hospital bills and the medical staff that treat you. One has very little to do with the other.

[hawkhuff]

I don't know if it applies all over, but in general US Medical policy is that you will not be turned away if you can't pay. You may get an amputated leg instead of reconstructive surgery, but you won't be told to go sit in a gutter and die.

That's right, they are collectively called the Cobra Laws. I can't recall what it stands for but if your friend goes to and ER or immediate treatment center she will be treated; she cannot be turned away.

 

That is usually not the problem. The problem comes in when one needs long term care or catastrophic healthcare.

[bbl]

Every American should have access to affordable healthcare. It's as fundamental as education, police and fire protection, and safe roadways -- all of which are funded by the gov't.

The government sure as hell does protect you. The government ensures your safety everyday, and to say otherwise is just a little narrow, imho.

(Imagine if your fire department moved out of town because you're town's fires weren't profitable enough.)

While his plan isn't perfect, I'm glad that our governator is working towards this. California will lead the way (once again) and the rest of the country will follow.

I'm also happy that, as a Republican who can't become President, Arnold has serious clout, but doesn't have to (to borrow RSB's phrase) suck the teat of DC or the Republican Party. Thank goodness. Same goes for climate change.

Go Arnold!