US Medical System

[RSBro]

I'm curious, how much is it going to cost me so that I can trust my healthcare to the same morons that run the USPS and IRS.

 

 

The epitome of incompetency is the last 3 letter word in his sentence...

 

Get audited once. Actually speak and/or meet that auditor for a little bit. You'll change your mind. Trust me.

[hawkhuff]

The health care industry is {censored}ed in this country. I have insurance through my work for my family and I pay $500 a month for it-- yet the insurance company refuses to cover anything, claiming everything we've been to a doctor for since we moved here is a "pre-existing condition"...according to my HR department, I can't opt out of the insurance either, so I'm over a barrel saddled with very hihg premiums, co-pays for every visit and prescription, AND full bills for everything we've been seen for so far. The US is the only modernized Western nation without national health care and it's absolutely shameful. People fear the government having their hands in it or fear "socialism" but are happy to have other socialized constructs like public schools, road maintenance, police departments, etc. The idea that US health care is intrinsically "better" is a myth. The idea that only in the US do you have a "choice" of doctors is a myth (and it's also a myth that you DO have a choice of doctors IN the US.) The same people who speak out against the government having a universal health care system are happy to let corporations reap massive profits at the expense of the less fortunate through denying claims whenever possible. It's beyond my understanding, but I think some of it comes from the mistaken idea that "America is Number One!" because we (supposedly) don't have socialized programs or something. It's horse{censored}.

If you're paying 500 a month and it covers nothing then why have it? With all due respect, instead of whining about that why don't you do a pay as you go, it might be cheaper for you in the long run. This is statistically true especially for the younger members of the population.

The trouble is here in the US and I would bet in other countries it's the same, we all want all the care all the time and we don't want to pay for it because it is, in the words of the bleeding hearts, a basic human right. With that mindset, which is prevalent, we end up paying for all kinds of frivilous BS treatments and we do it in the most expensive way; the ER visit.

I really can't say that I disagree with the notion it is a basic right BUT that's nothing more than a slogan and liberal rant. And it doesn't deal with the problems at hand. Just how will it be less expensive if the government takes it over? This goes against all known logic and the general uneducated public buys into it because the extreme left is promising it for free.

Canadians stream across the border to get healthcare in the US. Why? Because they can get it faster. Moreover, if you're paying cash, you move to the front of the line. In addition, the priviledged in Canada move to the front of the line and again I ask, how is this different? How is this better?

Sorry but I am not of the great mindless think that government does it better and government does it for free. It's just plain nonsense. Hate the big corporation but what of the much bigger, stodgy, slothful government? They are the answer?

Yeah, and we keep marching our kids into the largely incompetent big machine government schools which, hey, are free! YAY!!

[brotherbass]

If you're paying 500 a month and it covers nothing then why have it? With all due respect, instead of whining about that why don't you do a pay as you go, it might be cheaper for you in the long run. This is statistically true especially for the younger members of the population. The trouble is here in the US and I would bet in other countries it's the same, we all want all the care all the time and we don't want to pay for it because it is, in the words of the bleeding hearts, a basic human right. With that mindset, which is prevalent, we end up paying for all kinds of frivilous BS treatments and we do it in the most expensive way; the ER visit. I really can't say that I disagree with the notion it is a basic right BUT that's nothing more than a slogan and liberal rant. And it doesn't deal with the problems at hand. Just how will it be less expensive if the government takes it over? This goes against all known logic and the general uneducated public buys into it because the extreme left is promising it for free. Canadians stream across the border to get healthcare in the US. Why? Because they can get it faster. Moreover, if you're paying cash, you move to the front of the line. In addition, the priviledged in Canada move to the front of the line and again I ask, how is this different? How is this better? Sorry but I am not of the great mindless think that government does it better and government does it for free. It's just plain nonsense. Hate the big corporation but what of the much bigger, stodgy, slothful government? They are the answer? Yeah, and we keep marching our kids into the largely incompetent big machine government schools which, hey, are free! YAY!!

all this x2. The only thing I disagree with is that health care is not a basic human right. What is wrong with expecting people to provide their own health coverage? I have a PEC (heart attack, full blockage in RCA at 29) and have changed jobs and never had a problem with coverage.

[ranjaman]

all this x2. The only thing I disagree with is that health care is not a basic human right. What is wrong with expecting people to provide their own health coverage? I have a PEC (heart attack, full blockage in RCA at 29) and have changed jobs and never had a problem with coverage.

 

 

All principles aside, making sure everyone has health coverage has a practical benefit too, the beauty of health insurance is that it gets cheaper if more people participate.

Our government does not pay for our healthcare, all it does is make sure all of us are insured, the actual insurance comes from insurance companies.

 

I pay 60 euros (about 80 dollars) a month and I'm insured for almost everything, that includes medicine, fysiotherapy, psychiatrics and most dental work.

[hawkhuff]

All principles aside, making sure everyone has health coverage has a practical benefit too, the beauty of health insurance is that it gets cheaper if more people participate. Our government does not pay for our healthcare, all it does is make sure all of us are insured, the actual insurance comes from insurance companies.

Our government does not pay for our healthcare, all it does is make sure all of us are insured, the actual insurance comes from insurance companies.

Now what kind of sense does that make?? The government pays for your insurance but they also have to make sure you're signed up for it?

Do they also come to your homes and wipe your asses when you're done rocketing?? WTF? :rolleyes:

OMFG, is there no personal responsibility anywhere in Euro anymore?

[ranjaman]

Now what kind of sense does that make?? The government pays for your insurance but they also have to make sure you're signed up for it? Do they also come to your homes and wipe your asses when you're done rocketing?? WTF? :rolleyes: OMFG, is there no personal responsibility anywhere in Euro anymore?

The government doesn't pay for our insurance, it just makes sure everyone's signed up for it.
Instead of handing out free healthcare to everyone that doesn't take the responsibility of paying for it themselves, they just make sure everyone pays insurance and in the process make it a lot cheaper for everyone.

[Ender_rpm]

I'm in the Army (US) and we have universal coverage under Tricare. Its not perfect, but it seems like a better deal than what awaits me as I get out this fall. Military medicine may be a good template to have a good look at the benefits and pitfalls of a wider, national system. Scarcity of doctors and staff, especially specialists, but great prescription coverage and records keeping. My wife has to use off-base docs, but it still covers all her "woman" stuff, and the usual aches and pains. Single payer health care CAN work, but it is different to what we have, so it will not be an easy switch. What bothers me is that, like the home owners insurance compaines, people who CAN pay for treatment will be prefferred, while those with long standing ailments will be dumped into the "national" pool, driving costs up over all and distorting the "average health" of the nation. We do need an answer on this, the current system is broken. Even those with coverage end up paying for those without through taxes.

[lug]

is there no personal responsibility anywhere in Euro anymore?

geek mode on.....
Europe = The Borg
.....geek mode off

[brotherbass]

All principles aside, making sure everyone has health coverage has a practical benefit too, the beauty of health insurance is that it gets cheaper if more people participate. Our government does not pay for our healthcare, all it does is make sure all of us are insured, the actual insurance comes from insurance companies. I pay 60 euros (about 80 dollars) a month and I'm insured for almost everything, that includes medicine, fysiotherapy, psychiatrics and most dental work.

 

 

That is about what I pay for the same coverage through work.

[burdizzos]

 

The government doesn't pay for our insurance, it just makes sure everyone's signed up for it. Instead of handing out free healthcare to everyone that doesn't take the responsibility of paying for it themselves, they just make sure everyone pays insurance and in the process make it a lot cheaper for everyone.

 

 

What about people who cannot afford to pay?

[K7Baixo]

I'm not sure what to do about the "less fortunate". I've traveled enough in less-developed countries to know that the US will allow you to be as "fortunate" as you want to be whereas there are other countries where the truly unfortunate only get old and broken down from working hard.

I guess I was fortunate - enough at least to buy a soapbox to stand on. My parents couldn't afford to pay for my college so I took an alternate route giving Uncle Sam a few years of my time in exchange for a GI Bill.

I used every stinkin' educational benefit to earn two degrees. Uncle Sam has been repaid many times over by my increased earning being tax beyond what I would have made otherwise.

That education allowed me to work for a company that provides decent healthcare. My wife, a legal immigrant, worked her way through school also but without any assistance. Within 3 months of arriving in the US, she had a job that included healthcare. Within 1.5 years, she had moved to a Fortune 5 employer whose healthcare is on-par with mine. She's increased her pay by about 60% since starting work in 2003.

Now, we're both going to the gym at least 5 times a week to work ourselves into better shape. That'll save healthcare dollars now and in the long run but isn't required. Look at the obese walking around in public these days. {censored} them - they'll die a long and painful death that the majority could have prevented.

I could sit on my ass and watch it grow fatter but I have a dream to do a particular trip that never been attempted before. When we start this particular trip in 2010, it'll be 7-10 hours of extreme physical output every day for about 25-30 days. I'll be well over 50 when this trip starts.

Personal responsibility starts at an early age - I am sick of tired of people telling us that the poor need assistance. As far as I can tell, they were given the same schooling opportunities that I had as a kid. The military offered them the same benefits that I had at 18. The US is still the land of opportunity but don't count on life's lottery to make you a winner - you have to do that yourself. With success comes easy access to healthcare - at least in our system - but you have to position yourself to obtain it.

[L-1329]

Personal responsibility starts at an early age - I am sick of tired of people telling us that the poor need assistance. As far as I can tell, they were given the same schooling opportunities that I had as a kid. The military offered them the same benefits that I had at 18. The US is still the land of opportunity but don't count on life's lottery to make you a winner - you have to do that yourself. With success comes easy access to healthcare - at least in our system - but you have to position yourself to obtain it.

+a million.

[Ender_rpm]

Kinda funny how GIs have a lsightly different take on what it truly means to be poor, no?

[rcz]

the reason why i don't think health care is a basic human right is because it involves other people. i have every right to care for myself as i please, but i have no right to force others to care for me.

robb.

[RSBro]

the reason why i don't think health care is a basic human right is because it involves other people. i have every right to care for myself as i please, but i have no right to force others to care for me. robb.

 

 

Nor should others be able to force you to do so.

[SirMike1983]

I'm not sure what to do about the "less fortunate". I've traveled enough in less-developed countries to know that the US will allow you to be as "fortunate" as you want to be whereas there are other countries where the truly unfortunate only get old and broken down from working hard. I guess I was fortunate - enough at least to buy a soapbox to stand on. My parents couldn't afford to pay for my college so I took an alternate route giving Uncle Sam a few years of my time in exchange for a GI Bill. I used every stinkin' educational benefit to earn two degrees. Uncle Sam has been repaid many times over by my increased earning being tax beyond what I would have made otherwise. That education allowed me to work for a company that provides decent healthcare. My wife, a legal immigrant, worked her way through school also but without any assistance. Within 3 months of arriving in the US, she had a job that included healthcare. Within 1.5 years, she had moved to a Fortune 5 employer whose healthcare is on-par with mine. She's increased her pay by about 60% since starting work in 2003. Now, we're both going to the gym at least 5 times a week to work ourselves into better shape. That'll save healthcare dollars now and in the long run but isn't required. Look at the obese walking around in public these days. {censored} them - they'll die a long and painful death that the majority could have prevented. I could sit on my ass and watch it grow fatter but I have a dream to do a particular trip that never been attempted before. When we start this particular trip in 2010, it'll be 7-10 hours of extreme physical output every day for about 25-30 days. I'll be well over 50 when this trip starts. Personal responsibility starts at an early age - I am sick of tired of people telling us that the poor need assistance. As far as I can tell, they were given the same schooling opportunities that I had as a kid. The military offered them the same benefits that I had at 18. The US is still the land of opportunity but don't count on life's lottery to make you a winner - you have to do that yourself. With success comes easy access to healthcare - at least in our system - but you have to position yourself to obtain it.

 

 

 

This is an impressive record- I have to admire the level of hard work.

[Muddslide]

If you're paying 500 a month and it covers nothing then why have it? With all due respect, instead of whining about that why don't you do a pay as you go, it might be cheaper for you in the long run. This is statistically true especially for the younger members of the population.

 

 

Because I cannot opt out of it now that I have signed up for it. According to my HR department, I'm stuck.

 

 

Sorry but I am not of the great mindless think that government does it better and government does it for free. It's just plain nonsense. Hate the big corporation but what of the much bigger, stodgy, slothful government? They are the answer?

 

 

I don't trust the gov't not to {censored} up a health care system either, or that they do it "better" or "free"-- however, I'd surely entrust them more than private corporations whose CHIEF OBJECTIVE is to charge people as much as they possibly can, and then NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE OR SERVICE.

[Muddslide]

Woohoo, I'm a redneck moron! Kickass!

 

 

I don't know. Are you a jingoistic flag-waving knee-jerk patriot who goes about saying "America is Number One"?

 

If so, I'd ask-- by whose measure? By what criteria? How would you compare our system to every other nations in every variable to assess this?

 

And more, why is it important?

 

 

If we had a sweet universal healthcare system, my wife and I would get the privilege of paying $10k annually.

 

 

How do you come to that conclusion?

[Muddslide]

Health care should be a basic human right and never be for profit. Why put the undue stress upon an ailing person that, not only do they have to worry about getting better, but they have to worry about losing their home to do it? How does that make sense? You don't like Universal Coverage because of the boogie-man that comes with the word "socialized"? How about if you de-socialize your police and fire departments? Would you like to pay a premium every time you have to call the cops? Would you like to have to call your insurance company before you can call the fire trucks if your house is burning down to make sure you're covered for their use of water? I hate to tell you lovely people, but you're already a social democracy; you're just getting screwed on the health-care aspect of it. Your country is based on the pursuit of happiness and equality for all, correct? So, how does that not translate into health care? I'll say it again, it's a basic human right.

 

 

Spoken. Like a true human being.

[burdizzos]

 

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

 

The same way you came up with your specific figure of a "slight increase" in taxes, I pulled it out of my ass.

 

 

 

Odd are good that a properly executed single payer healthcare system would work spendidly and cost me less. Until the lobby groups got a hold of it. Suddenly all types of dumb {censored} would be covered by the national healthcare system. I'd have the "right" to free chiropractic care after my free visit to the aromatherapist, even though I'd never go to either of those witch doctors.

[Muddslide]

the reason why i don't think health care is a basic human right is because it involves other people. i have every right to care for myself as i please, but i have no right to force others to care for me. robb.

 

 

So, if your house was being robbed or was on fire, you'd be okay taking care of that yourself and not having to depend on the police and fire departments we are all "forced" to pay for, correct?

 

If the road you take to work collapsed, you'd get right on fixing that up yourself I guess?

 

Or if you should have a terrible accident, you'd be okay with not being able to pay massive medical bills and then winding up in court being sued, right?

[Muddslide]

The same way you came up with your specific figure of a "slight increase" in taxes, I pulled it out of my ass. Odd are good that a properly executed single payer healthcare system would work spendidly and cost me less. Until the lobby groups got a hold of it. Suddenly all types of dumb {censored} would be covered by the national healthcare system. I'd have the "right" to free chiropractic care after my free visit to the aromatherapist, even though I'd never go to either of those witch doctors.

 

 

Let's just say that the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted in Iraq could've gone towards health care. Would you approve of that?

 

Are you asserting that lobbying groups don't have an affect on things NOW?

 

How do you conclude that aromatherapy and the like would be "covered by national healthcare?"

[burdizzos]

My local Police force and Fire Dept are not part of a federally controlled organization.

 

The roads I take to work every are maintained my my city and state.

 

 

The failing schools in my city are federally controlled.

 

 

It's a matter of scope. I gladly pay property taxes to fund the roads and emergency services provided by my city and state, but there's no way I'd support federalizing the police force or placing the fedeal gov't in charge of all roads.

[burdizzos]

 

Let's just say that the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted in Iraq could've gone towards health care. Would you approve of that? Are you asserting that lobbying groups don't have an affect on things NOW? How do you conclude that aromatherapy and the like would be "covered by national healthcare?"

 

 

The money wasted in Iraq should have stayed stateside such that there would have been no deficit spending, thus keeping the dollar strong in foreign markets and maintaining a higher rate of growth.

 

Lobby groups have a tremendous affect now, that's how I know that whenever the gov't starts handing out money, those clowns line up to get their piece of the pie, which, inevitably, gets bigger.

 

If there is a national healthcare plan, who decides what will be covered and what will not be covered? Doctors? Medical professionals? No, Congressmen who enjoy campain donations from various lobbies. Aromatherapy wouldn't be covered immediately, but it's a nearly certain eventuality because people will make claims about "maintaining wellness as a means to lower overall healthcare costs."

[hawkhuff]

Because I cannot opt out of it now that I have signed up for it. According to my HR department, I'm stuck. I don't trust the gov't not to {censored} up a health care system either, or that they do it "better" or "free"-- however, I'd surely entrust them more than private corporations whose CHIEF OBJECTIVE is to charge people as much as they possibly can, and then NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE OR SERVICE.

Since you're a victim of the healthcare insurance supplier at your place of employment, you sir qualify for gubmint assistance! :thu:

Any other victims here, you too can apply!

Hell, we'll all pay your way.

For me I wouldn't trust the government for anything much less my healthcare plan.