Rant/discussion on (lack of) support from friends and family.

[cyberwolf]

I posted this under a different thread, but in gestating this topic and henceforth, elaborating on this subject in a rather longwinded fashion, I decided to post this as an entirely separate discussion. I'm sure plenty of folks here will have a myriad of interesting, insightful and humorous insight.

 

Here goes:

 

Much as I hate to say it, I'll have to agree with this sentiment:

 

"My friends don't care about your band. My neighbors don't care about my band, and I don't even know who my neighbor's friends are..."

 

I don't have the fortune of performing in a live band any more, yet I'm still out in the trenches doing my best to plug my CD's and promote my music. Not having the live gigs to showcase my music is a choice - albeit a practical one for a variety of reasons - but definitely doesn't work to my advantage. The band days are long gone for me, although I reminesce fondly as I pick up my cane and descend into my wheelchair after my dentures are in place...

 

Ok a little melodrama there, but the point is, If you ARE in a band and playing gigs, that works to your advantage in exposing peope to your music. For those of us who DON'T play out regularly or are "studio" musicians, releasing independent music on CD's, well... the internet is both a boon and bane for our continued existence. It's the great promotional equalizer, yet the competition is fierce and it's not going to get any easier. Even with Myspace, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack in the dark, with the glut of music available.

 

So for me, it's just a matter of perserverance. I'm thinking of hanging it up - releasing CD's that is - after 4 of them things over the course of the last 10 years for a variety of reasons.

 

But to get back to the sentiment I quoted, verbatim, above, I feel the same way, although you can add "family and friends" into the no-support category as well.

 

Anyone else have this problem? Their family and friends don't support their music, let alone inquire about it or even bander about, vocally, in reference to it. I've had that problem for some time, it seems I just have more success in promotion and interest from perfect (although I'm sure some are less than perfect and plenty are this side of insane, heh heh) strangers and internet acquaintances. I find this infuriating and fascinating at the same time. Definite fodder for late night discussions and mid-afternoon Dr. Pepper-clotching diatribes at the local coffee shop.

 

One would think one's friends and family would be the first in line to support you, especially at a grass roots, independent self-financed level, but apparently, this doesn't often seem to be the case.

 

This could be construed as complaining and malcontent ramblings, but it's more like I postulate above, a grand topic for heated debate and interesting discussion, methinks.

 

So, offer your opinions and related perspectives, even bring up some of your own personal experiences. Any and all solutions will be seriously considered tantamount to knightship.

[cherri]

I can't help you, dear. My friends and family support us in a big way.

[cyberwolf]

Oh I wasn't looking for help - this certainly wasn't a occupational SOS or a preamble for a quest for therapy - but merely a forum for folks to offer their experiences and opinions. If they had any that were relevant, of course. ;-)

[Beachbum]

I like your reference to the internet. The internet is a great place to market CD's, but it's also a great place for people to give away their music for free in the hopes of attracting listeners. It almost seems to work against itself.

 

Most of the situations I've seen where family, friends, etc., didn't lend support to a musician was regarding someone who spent too much time with their music and didn't have anough balance in their lives. The same is often true of artists as well.

 

No offense intended - are you working a job, attending school, being productive in other ways besides just music?

[cyberwolf]

I agree with your response to my reference on the net. If the net was a living, breathing entity, it would qualify for schizophrenia-treatment drugs, without a doubt.

 

Personally, I see it as folks grow older, they have less time or interest in lives or entertainment, sometimes, outside of their own. Similar to that experience you hear people comment about that as they grow older, they lose friends but gain acquaintances. One could really probably compose a dissertation on the analysis of this phenomena, but I certainly won't. lol

 

Oh yeah, I'm a graphic artist by trade, independent musician by design. No offense taken... Music's been the glorified hobby/insanity-inspiring part-time occupation of mine for ah, 20 years?

[The*Ataris]

 

Originally posted by Beachbum I like your reference to the internet. The internet is a great place to market CD's, but it's also a great place for people to give away their music for free in the hopes of attracting listeners. It almost seems to work against itself.

 

 

Why?

 

I recorded our music myself on equipment that was paid for years ago. It's a tool to lure people toward a live performance. If it takes somebody carrying my song around on his or her ipod for a month in order to come out, than fine. All it cost was our time (a couple of days?) and we had a blast doing it...

 

We sell the same CD's for a dollar at shows just to recoup the purchase of the CD-R's...

 

People don't go watch bands they've never heard before...

[Badside]

Sure, our friend used to come to every show we did at first, but you can't expect them to follow you everywhere. If anything, I've made more friend by playing music than I had before, and those friends follow us everywhere... you could call them fans I guess, but we're close enough to most of them to call them friends.

 

It would suck if I had to rely on friends, co-workers and family every time I book a gig. I don't go to every gigs my friends play, and don't expect anything more from them.

[mr3lions]

While I'm not selling CD's or trying to make a living playing music (it's a hobby for me) getting friends and family out to support the cause can be difficult. Being in my late 30's my friends have wives, kids, and soccer tournaments on Sunday mornings so they can't be out every weekend till 3 am. Don't get me wrong I don't expect them too. What I've done is learn to economize my time. I save invites for important gigs so I can kind of lean on my friends by saying "Come on, I know you got kids but I rarely ask you to come out."

The other thing I do is limit the times I play in a certain area. I play lots of shows on the west side of town (by the University) where I don't need to bring a crowd. However, once every month or two I do a solo acoustic act on the east side (close to where most of my friends live) and the place is always packed because it's a special event that doesn't happen every week. In fact the manager has asked me to play there more frequently because I'm his biggest draw but I still refuse.

I don't know if this would work for you but you may want to try the strategy of doing fewer live shows and inviting everyone you do know for these. That way you can build up a bit of hype as being the band with a huge following that has people begging them to play more often.

[Nobody Told Me]

I'm the guy who originally wrote the sentiment you quoted in your OP, and I have to say that I think you've taken it out of context. I was not trying to imply a lack of support by anyone in my musical sphere. My comment was meant as a tongue-in-cheek reply to a new member who apparently had registered merely to promote an upcoming gig. "Tell your friends! Tell your neighbors! Tell your neighbors' friends!" (I still am amazed at how some people seem to forget that the internet is a global community, and that a fellow in Brisbane probably is not going to attend one's show in Cheyene.)

[protues9]

honestly.. I get no support either.

 

I play industrial / gothic / ambient, my wife hates it, my parents are clueless to it... and dont see beyond their country club life style..

 

I an get a couple freinds to roadie, and usually i'm playing to the same 5 people.. but im a solo act... i work full time, am working on a masters.. I dont have the time to put into a full time gig either. My wife is cool with about 1 event a month, which is cool with me, so we dont have issues over it.

 

you ahve to ask you self, what's the point? writing the music or selling it? for me it's writing it.. I do it for me, on my own time.. for my own enjoyment.. playing out, is just a night out where I get to have a beer and be a big shot for the evening and hang out with friends.. it all comes down to what you see as being the larger point there..

[vanlatte]

 

Originally posted by Beachbum I like your reference to the internet. The internet is a great place to market CD's, but it's also a great place for people to give away their music for free in the hopes of attracting listeners. It almost seems to work against itself.

 

 

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?

[MK_ULTRA]

I know where you guys are coming from, my parents never supported guitar or my band at all. My mom actually went as far as to say that it "ruined my life" and that I should stop unless I wanna end up on drugs and homeless. I couldn't believe it.

 

Dad does like my music though, only because I know some oldies that he remembers. But he'd never learn to appreciate rage against the machine, lol.

 

But damn is support from friends important. I'd be nowhere without learning things from my other band members, and having immediate friends roadie and repair things.

 

You know though, sometimes even if parents or friends (or wives) don't support you, you gotta keep doing what you love. There's always someone who will appreciate it.

[cyberwolf]

Hey NTM, I understand your origina comment might've been taken out of context, but that is kind of the point, it was sarcastic but I actually see an element of truth to it. Unknowingly, or perhaps knowingly, you hit upon something that served as a direct path to this discussion (and I replied to your original post in the original thread.)

 

For me personally, since I'm not a live gigging musician, this refers more towards supporting one's artistic/musical output, ie: buying a CD. But it's kind of interesting the related tangents the discussion is taking, as presumed. Like I said, the aid of live performance does nothing but enhance the possibility of exposure and that's a given.

[Prog]

Are you supporting their hobbies?

 

Friends and family know you are just some guy with a home studio recording some songs. What's the thrill in that?

 

The Internet is flooded with just some guy(s) with a home studio recording some songs.

 

I'm not sure what else they can do. Buy your CD's once a week?

 

Think of all the other hobbies people have. Stamp collecting, writing short stories, fishing, motorcycles, painting, bowling, volunteer work. Do they always need support from friends and family?

 

I'm not sure I could "support" all of my acquaintence's hobbies. They rarely ask for it, either.

[JacieFB]

I have a few family members that are supportive...my mom is of course blown away by our music. My wife is ever-supportive. But as far as why don't friends care and why doesn't the bulk of the family care? Well, the answer that I've come up with is the same reason why I really don't hang out with them and don't care to impress them anymore. I don't hang out with all my old friends from high school anymore. It's sad that they don't like my music. But I keep in mind that they are products of pop radio. They'll like my music if pop radio tells them to. Bottom line, we're different people with entirely different tastes. I give a {censored} less about The Bengals and Frisbee Football at the Party In The Park. I write and play for myself and for the people that do appreciate it.

[MartinC]

I've received plenty of support from family and friends over the years, but what gets me is when the wife asks me to bring or whip out the guitar for relatives who, in twenty years never came to a club or concert to see me or my group. That's a "no thanks"

[sventvkg]

It's difficult enough to get people into your music when you aren't performing it all the time. If friends and family never actually see you perform anymore maybe they think of your music as just some little hobby of yours at this point and don't give it much thought after that. I feel friends and family need to see you perform it, need to see how exited it makes you when you are playing it on stage. That might ignight their interest. Seeing is believing IN in this case..Outta sight outta mind etc..People are busy and have much to think about in their own lives, so don't take it personally. Go out and start playing solo now and then and show them how passionate you are about your art.

[daddymack]

Although your original post seemed to meander cross several topics, I will address the original premise by saying:

 

Wah! Not everyone you know is into your band?

Grow up.

Move forward.

None of my kids has ever seen any of my bands perform live except in my rehearsal studio over fifteen years ago, and neither did my ex-wife.

Was I/am I upset?

No...I don't do this to impress my friends and family. I do it because it is what makes me happy...and I get paid for it.

 

My parents never saw me really perform until three years ago. I have been in and out of bands/duos for over thirty years. They came to one show. They liked it, and have never come out since.

 

Is it a topic of occassional discussion? Only when my gig schedule conflicts with family functions...which happens quite a bit; but that is how it goes.

 

If you are relying on your family and friends as the support for your band, then you are destined to disappointment and failure. How many times are you expecting these poor people to sit through your show (god forbid its an originals band with only ten songs...). The first mark of success in a band is to attract a following...and that means bringing strangers into the fold.

 

Sorry if this sounded harsh...but that's real life.

[Hanshananigan]

Promoting your band or solo gig or CDs is like selling Mary Kay cosmetics.

 

Your friends politely buy some lipstick and eyeliner when first approached to be supportive, but they aren't really into what you're selling. When you approach them a second time, it's like, "ahem... well... I'm sorry, but you should have caught me yesterday, because I just got a year's supply of makeup at Costco..."

 

Bands of young folks can get away with originals if it's the flavor-of-the-day style music- it's the "scene." But when coming to your show is about getting a babysitter and putting off folding the laundry another night, ahem, well, the "scene" is at home with the kids. I think older folks are more likely to go to a friend's show if the band is fun and plays lots of covers of songs that were popular when they were in HS and college.

 

But if you're playing out and friends don't come to see you, hey- you might make a new friend out of the folks who enjoy what you do.

[Scafeets]

Originally posted by Beachbum

I like your reference to the internet. The internet is a great place to market CD's, but it's also a great place for people to give away their music for free in the hopes of attracting listeners. It almost seems to work against itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?

Originally posted by vanlatte

 

I love the way people assume the Internet changed everything for musicians. It changed SOME things, but not that particular equation.

 

30 years ago, during the presumed heyday of live and recorded music, the free factor was just as prevalent. Stations would play commercial-free album sides and even tell their listeners to "get ready and set your recorders."

 

TDK was selling a million C-90s every time a hit LP came out. High schools had "taping clubs" where they would get together and buy one LP and record it 25 times.

 

Theft in record stores was so common, the "loss factor" was reported in corporate P/L statements.

 

Internet downloads are today's airplay. And the amount of giveaways via download is nothing compared to the money and resources it used to take to get a record played on radio. And I'm not just talking about payola, subsidized concerts, radio promotion giveaways, etc.

 

"Cleans" -- unmarked, shrinkwrapped LPs, were the currency of the radio and retail industry. If you wanted your record played at a station, or reported by a retailer, your record company was going to have to give away a {censored}load of free albums. And we're talking about atoms, not bits. Every one of those albums cost the artist a few bucks in recoupable royalties.

 

And Indie labels weren't born yesterday. In the 50s, it was Atlantic, Chess, Vanguard, Verve, Savoy, etc. In the 60s, Elektra, VeeJay, Specialty, Motown, etc. In the 70s, Sire, IRS, Stiff............

 

The success of all the Indie labels was dependent on the bands creating buzz, getting people to see them live and widening their circle of influence. Just like today.

 

Now, getting back to the topic: If your band is dependent on friends and family to create buzz, your band doesn't have the requisite Mojo to make it in the local club scene. And aspirations beyond that are futile.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by Scafeets Now, getting back to the topic: If your band is dependent on friends and family to create buzz, your band doesn't have the requisite Mojo to make it in the local club scene. And aspirations beyond that are futile.

 

That's a very good point and one reason I rarely even consider the opions of friends and family. I have found it to be one of two extremes: Either they are too afraid of hurting feelings and "Everything is great" or they are the bitter, jealous type and "Everything sucks".

 

Extremes are usually way off the mark.

[cyberwolf]

A few folks I want to address specifically.

 

Daddymack, you miss the original intent of the post. This was asking for viewpoints, perspectives and discussions. No where did I moan and groan about a lack of support or perpetrate some online temper trantrum, I merely asked for opinions and struck up a debate. So your allusion that I'm acting like a juvenille ('grow up') is ridiculous. I think you need to concentrate on reading my thoughts and comments and depart from the knee-jerk reactionary comments. Believe me I've been doing this long enough to have a fairly keen grasp on reality, which is why I'm a little perturbed you took my discussion commentary so melodramatically.

 

Prog, the answer to your first comment is yes. I do support them. But that's somewhat irrelevant. Believe me, most of my friends and family know I'm not just some cat who stays at home playing make-believe in his Kiss makeup, air guitaring in the mirror in a sequined Elvis jumpsuit, although that's a good PR campaign idea! There's a big difference between stamp collecting and promoting one's art. Again, I think YOU misinterpret my original post. I was making observations and asking for viewpoints, although I'm not responsible if you take my posts out of context or mistake my comments as a hostile invasion of others privacy. Buying a CD a week? That would be nice, but that's not my reality, dude.

 

Again, for me, I'm not in a live-gigging situation, and I've not been for years, so I can't quite associate with the comments referring to band gigs from personal experience, at least in the last 10+ years. I'm just trying to discern if others have found other avenues of success in promoting their projects, as well.

[BlueStrat]

Here's a reply I wrote to the same question asked in another thread, but it's more appropriate here.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

 

Well, I feel your pain. The reality is, people have lives, and while we may assign a great deal of importance to what we do, most other people don't.

 

Imagine if your brother or uncle or best friend was passionate about showing dogs. How many dog shows would you go to before you found other things to do? It doesn't mean you don't love or support your relatives or friends. It just means that show dogs aren't an integral part of your life.

 

I got a huge wake-up call a couple of years ago. I'm in a fairly modest market area, maybe 500 thousand people in an area that's maybe 800 square miles. I made 4 CDs with my band, won numerous regional awards from the blues societies, got invited to do lots of concert openings and festivals, had a song picked for a MacWorld Magazine CD insert, I got favorably reviewed on 3 records by a few national magazines, airplay on college and indie radios stations across the country, a national distributor...when I played locally, we packed places and got paid better than just about anyone else around here doing what I'm doing.

 

Now, I'm not telling you this to puff myself up, but to illustrate a point. After 4 years of hitting it hard, I decided I needed a break. So I talked to the band, they were all getting burned out too ( we travelled about a 600 mile radius) and so we decided to take a few months off. And do you know what?

 

Weeks went by, followed by a month, and then two, and not one, NOT ONE person called and asked why we weren't playing. Or where we were going to be next, or anything. I decided to take a longer break. It's been almost two years now, and I pull the band out once in a blue moon to do a benefit or a festival, but mostly I just do singles and duos and play with other bands on occaision. In June, we did a festival benefit gig for Curtis Salgado, and people who used to come see us play asked me where we've been playing. They didn't notice that we haven't been around for almost two years.

 

It's a sobering thing to realize that no matter how good you think you're getting, how geat people tell you you are, how many shows you pack out, how much press you get, the bottom line is that you just aren't that important to people who have their own lives to live. We as musicians tend to overestimate how much value we have in the lives of others. That's why I laugh when people here on this board stress about piddly {censored} that happens on stage. I do it, too. But the reality is, the next day they aren't even going to remember that you played, let alone that you messed up the 4th bar of the second solo of the 9th song of your last set. Kinda puts things in perspective.

 

Today, I'm fine with being anonymous and not that important even in my own town. I get as many gigs as I want and get paid well. I just realize that all the {censored} I used to stress over and worry about concerning my reputation and my promo, etc etc was just wasted energy. No one really gives a flying crap in the long term. It's kind of liberating to realize it, actually.

[cyberwolf]

Hey Blue Strat, I'm feelin' you - on your commentary that is, so no need to contact the harrassment authorities. That's pretty much the way I feel about the situation.

 

I guess the only comments I differ from you on, is the first. It's sufficiently difficult to compare, say, dog showing to CD endeavors. At least with a CD, you buy a copy, you keep it forever and spin it daily for 4 hours, minimum.

 

Ok, that's a joke, but I think you'll get the jist.

 

Sounds like you had an "almost sure thing" on your hands a few years back, that's some fairly substantial musical credibility, dude. I'll definitely agree with the implications of a band situation, that's almost par for the course, atleast when you hit a "certain age bracket."

 

The way I see it, this is an era of folks being more frugal, and yet, more self-absorbed, to a degree, as well as a distinct sense of self-entitlement, especially amongst the youth, who are almost spoon fed the "free downloads" mentality from a young age. That's part of it, me thinks.

 

Great post and a thoughtful response, as well.

[Prog]

 

Originally posted by cyberwolf Prog, the answer to your first comment is yes. I do support them. But that's somewhat irrelevant. ...There's a big difference between stamp collecting and promoting one's art.

Maybe there's a difference. Just don't tell the stamp collector. It insinuates that what you do is more ... something, but still, it's more that what they do.

 

People can be very passionate about what they do as hobbies. Music is no more noble than anything else. Your circle of people may not see music, in general, as all that important.

 

Plus, once you release your CD, it's all over. You don't play live or anything else, so they've got plenty of time to listen to it. If ever. It really doesn't matter.

 

I wouldn't stop releasing your CD's if I were you. If you're after local fame, you're going to be disappointed. If you're after "your art" as you've said, fame should have no bearing.