Members 2manband Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 I agree with a bunch of the previous posters that there are a lot of affordable quality instruments now. But, I have seen guys with rigs costing 2-3k use beat up cables that only really work if they're plugged in, twisted, and bent backwards to get a signal throught the broken solder connection. I don't understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Another thing to think about is sometimes cheap gear has a quality that you want regardless of price. My bass player despises heavy basses so he ended up getting a bottom of the line Rogue that probably weighs 4 lbs(apparently its either a piece of cardboard with 300 coats of paint or its made of Balsa) and strung with flat wounds sounded pretty good. He used it fo years before getting into short scales. Ive played crappy guitars that cost thousands of dollars(*cough* Gibby Les Paul custom), and i like my Epi LP which cost me $600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigfatmonkeyboy Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 My Gibbo SG Special - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted May 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 No offense, but you're living in the past, or the people you're seeing/hearing are idiots. There are TONS of perfectly giggable instruments made now inexpensively.Didn't used to be that way. Look I am not {censored}in stupid. I know the gear does not make the player. That was not what I meant. For the best sounds you are at the mercy for a limited amount of gear in my case. There are tons and tons more options for guitar players then for keyboard players. Look at any of the catalogs or online sites and there is a 3rd of keyboard gear available then there is for guitar players. I realize that 90% of the people here are guitar players but for someone that is professional or semi-professional playing keys cheap keyboards don't cut it. I should have never brought this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Look I am not {censored}in stupid. I know the gear does not make the player. That was not what I meant. For the best sounds you are at the mercy for a limited amount of gear in my case. There are tons and tons more options for guitar players then for keyboard players. Look at any of the catalogs or online sites and there is a 3rd of keyboard there is available to guitar players in gear. I realize that 90% of the people here are guitar players but for someone that is professional or semi-professional playing keys cheap keyboards don't cut it. I should have never brought this up. I am very glad you brought this up because it exposes a very valid point. I think keys are a unique animal. Let's be frank here: compare the technology in a korg triton to the technology in a Fender bass. Honestly, the wiring in my 1929 tube AM radio is literally more sophisiticated than that in a Fender bass. Cheap keyboards are, in fact, cheap. When you spend more, you most definitely get more. I had a casio that cost $350 at Costco. It sounded great, but when you plugged it into a PA it sounded like FM radio. That is not acceptable for performing and definitely not for recording. IOW, this is a whole different argument when you stick to the subcategory of keys, and you have exposed the dirty secret of expensive guitars and bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted May 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2007 Look I am not {censored}in stupid. I know the gear does not make the player. That was not what I meant. For the best sounds you are at the mercy for a limited amount of gear in my case. There are tons and tons more options for guitar players then for keyboard players. Look at any of the catalogs or online sites and there is a 3rd of keyboard gear available then there is for guitar players. I realize that 90% of the people here are guitar players but for someone that is professional or semi-professional playing keys cheap keyboards don't cut it. I should have never brought this up. It's your own fault for your vaguely worded OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 For the best sounds you are at the mercy for a limited amount of gear in my case. There are tons and tons more options for guitar players then for keyboard players. Yes, this is in fact the sad truth. The difference in the quality of sound between a middle of the road (digital) kb and a high end one is readily apparent to even the ignorant masses. Good, reliable bargains can still be had though in the analog digital/analog hybrid realm however (DW-8000, Alesis Micron, ESQ-1 come to mind...) This seems even more apparent in music that relies heavily on Piano and B3 sounds - these 2 tones are the toughest to model with any accuracy and as such the high-end solutions that feature these tones are both mutually exclusive and very expensive. But it's always been that way in keyboard land, hasn't it:blah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cruciatus Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Outkaster's point is probably the truest for Keyboardists who are using a KB to do a Piano sound. It doesn't take much savvy at all to realize how legit a Piano sound is or isn't. It's far less subjective than Guitar Tone and the million routes to sounding "good." A board sounds like a Piano or it doesn't. There's close, closer and closest and that's changing constantly w/ technology. I've seen a lot of people on a pro level settle for "close" when you would expect someone at that level to be the most anal about being "closest." Maybe they're sidetracked by making the big bucks. But it is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Outkaster's point is probably the truest for Keyboardists who are using a KB to do a Piano sound. It doesn't take much savvy at all to realize how legit a Piano sound is or isn't. It's far less subjective than Guitar Tone and the million routes to sounding "good." A board sounds like a Piano or it doesn't. There's close, closer and closest and that's changing constantly w/ technology. I've seen a lot of people on a pro level settle for "close" when you would expect someone at that level to be the most anal about being "closest." Maybe they're sidetracked by making the big bucks. But it is odd. I agree. To get the official Fender version of my 62 reissue jazz clone (I paid $139) it would set you back about $2400. Even around other musicians, I strongly doubt anyone could tell a difference, until they looked for the Fender "F" stamped in the metal plate. and the slightly different shape of the headstock. Put a $139 keyboard up against a $2400 keyboard. The reason for the high price of some keyboards is different than the reason for the high price of stringed solid body instruments. And it is most definitely far more rooted in quality and technology with keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted May 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 It's your own fault for your vaguely worded OP. No one asked you. Do you normally chime on any every thread on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cruciatus Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 the only caveat to this whole thing is that it would have been appalling unthinkable and wholly unprofessional to even show up to a gig 10 years ago w/ a Casio or any 'board for 500 or less. Slowly and by degrees that is changing. the Casio will to some extent (let's say in the 70% range?) get the job done. The WK series is really pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 No one asked you. Do you normally chime on any every thread on this forum? I, um, think he was kidding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbviper4 Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 What bugs me even more is talentless hacks with top notch gear. +1 There ought to be a test you have to pass in order to get a great guitar. (And torturing Strairway at GC is NOT it) This kid down the street from me got a $3000 LP for Christmas and here I am with 20+ years of playing, beating on the old Tele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted May 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2007 No one asked you. Do you normally chime on any every thread on this forum? Damn dude, set down the Hatorade. And yes, I normally do. Your posting style seems very... um... angry, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted May 22, 2007 Members Share Posted May 22, 2007 Outkaster's point is probably the truest for Keyboardists who are using a KB to do a Piano sound. It doesn't take much savvy at all to realize how legit a Piano sound is or isn't. It's far less subjective than Guitar Tone and the million routes to sounding "good." A board sounds like a Piano or it doesn't. There's close, closer and closest and that's changing constantly w/ technology. I've seen a lot of people on a pro level settle for "close" when you would expect someone at that level to be the most anal about being "closest." Maybe they're sidetracked by making the big bucks. But it is odd. "Close, closer, closest" to what? Which piano of what type by what builder? In the same way that there are thousands of variations in the tonality of acoustic guitars, there are thousands of variations in the tonality of acoustic ("real" as opposed to electronic) pianos. There is no close, closer, closest. There are many variations on the theme. Play an upright Baldwin next to an upright Yamaha or Samick--to name three affordable, commonly available, home-quality pianos--and you'll hear a substantial difference. Compare any one of them to a grand and the tone changes. Heck, once you get into the top tier of pianos, 8 foot+ Steinways and Busendorfers for instance, each individual instrument has its own idiosyncracies that are easily discerned by the experienced ear. In fact, when such pianos are bought, experienced concert-level pianists are often engaged to test several to determine which has the tonal characteristics most sought by the buyer. The same is true of organs. Yeah, there is a classic B-3 sound and that signature tone is tough to emulate precisely, but that doesn't mean that the tones available in a specific keyboard won't do the job. Besides, there are thousands of other electronic organ sounds that may or may not reflect any actual organ in existence and thats OK. Put a pipe organ in a building and its unique sound will be defined by the building itself as much as by the design and construction of the instrument. Each one is different. But, because the "pipe organ" patch on a Casio (or a Triton, for that matter) doesn't exactly match the sound of a 128-rank theatre Wurlitzer, doesn't mean that the patch is unuseable or that the instrument is un-giggable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted May 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 Damn dude, set down the Hatorade. And yes, I normally do. Your posting style seems very... um... angry, in general. Sorry man it is just that I put up with so much {censored} from a lot of the assholes on the keyboard forum. 90% of them don't really gig over there so I come here because it is a little more serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 I went shopping for a modern keyboard this year. I had my choice of boards.. I was on no budget. There was a big difference in my opinion between the 500 dollar boards and the higher zoot ones. I bought a roland 300sx ... Its doesnt have a ton of bells and whistles ,, but the bells and whistles that it does have are top notch. The rhodes sounds great, the B3 sounds great.. It has enough differnt piano patches to do anything I want. While not the most expensive of the Roland lineup ,, it seemed to be the best value that still provided the sound and action i was looking for. I have owned hammonds, had a vox,both had leslies, and i had a rhodes electric piano. I know what the real deals sound and play like. While not the real deal.... in a board that weights less than 40 pounds.... no way would i ever grunt the old stuff I used to play on. The modern keyboards are amazing,, and if you have a 500 dollar budget ,,, you can get the job done ... its not going to sound as good as the higher zoot boards. Guitars i think are a different deal. You can get some very nice low cost great playing and sounding guitars.... keyboards are a whole different animal. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SanDiego333 Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 the only caveat to this whole thing is that it would have been appalling unthinkable and wholly unprofessional to even show up to a gig 10 years ago w/ a Casio or any 'board for 500 or less. Slowly and by degrees that is changing. the Casio will to some extent (let's say in the 70% range?) get the job done. The WK series is really pretty nice. My girlfriend can't tell the difference. She just wants to hear tunes done well and to dance. At some point, we're doing gear to impress ourselves. I'm a gear snob - don't get me wrong - but...for 99% of the "non-playing" audience....they don't give a {censored}, can't tell if you're 1/4 or 1/2 step out of tune, or are even there. Just play...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 My girlfriend can't tell the difference. She just wants to hear tunes done well and to dance. At some point, we're doing gear to impress ourselves. I'm a gear snob - don't get me wrong - but...for 99% of the "non-playing" audience....they don't give a {censored}, can't tell if you're 1/4 or 1/2 step out of tune, or are even there. Just play...... The problem is that you have to play the thing too. You can just dig into a modern keyboard and set it up like you can a cheap guitar and make it play well. I think when it comes to keyboards,, you really have to be a player to really have an educated opinion. Its one of those things that if I have to explain it , you wouldnt understand. Now that said ,, every player has his own idea of what he likes in the action on a keyboard. I have heard my roland described as spongy by some. I feel what they are talking about ... Its not an issue to me ,,, I like the way it plays. I hate the way a real fender rhodes plays....my old contential wasnt that great , but it was the best you could get in a combo organ in its day. Would you play a guitar that plays like {censored} because your GF could not hear the difference? I am guessing you would play a mexican strat thats been set up well .....I think thats the difference. With keys what you buy is what you got. Guitars can be set up to play well, even if they play like {censored} when they leave the music store. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SanDiego333 Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 The problem is that you have to play the thing too. You can just dig into a modern keyboard and set it up like you can a cheap guitar and make it play well. I think when it comes to keyboards,, you really have to be a player to really have an educated opinion. Its one of those things that if I have to explain it , you wouldnt understand. Now that said ,, every player has his own idea of what he likes in the action on a keyboard. I have heard my roland described as spongy by some. I feel what they are talking about ... Its not an issue to me ,,, I like the way it plays. I hate the way a real fender rhodes plays....my old contential wasnt that great , but it was the best you could get in a combo organ in its day. Would you play a guitar that plays like {censored} because your GF could not hear the difference? I am guessing you would play a mexican strat thats been set up well .....I think thats the difference. With keys what you buy is what you got. Guitars can be set up to play well, even if they play like {censored} when they leave the music store. rat Can't really argue with you. Yup, I am a guitarist, not much keyboard experience (so...I wouldn't be able to tell the difference ). But I respect and agree with what you are saying....first, if I can tell a difference, then, yes, it matters. And, to some earlier posts, if the gear just doesn't stay in tune or whatever... another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted May 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 The problem is that you have to play the thing too. You can just dig into a modern keyboard and set it up like you can a cheap guitar and make it play well. I think when it comes to keyboards,, you really have to be a player to really have an educated opinion. Its one of those things that if I have to explain it , you wouldnt understand. Now that said ,, every player has his own idea of what he likes in the action on a keyboard. I have heard my roland described as spongy by some. I feel what they are talking about ... Its not an issue to me ,,, I like the way it plays. I hate the way a real fender rhodes plays....my old contential wasnt that great , but it was the best you could get in a combo organ in its day. Would you play a guitar that plays like {censored} because your GF could not hear the difference? I am guessing you would play a mexican strat thats been set up well .....I think thats the difference. With keys what you buy is what you got. Guitars can be set up to play well, even if they play like {censored} when they leave the music store. rat Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 My girlfriend can't tell the difference. She just wants to hear tunes done well and to dance. At some point, we're doing gear to impress ourselves. I'm a gear snob - don't get me wrong - but...for 99% of the "non-playing" audience....they don't give a {censored}, can't tell if you're 1/4 or 1/2 step out of tune, or are even there. Just play...... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted May 23, 2007 Moderators Share Posted May 23, 2007 Sorry man it is just that I put up with so much {censored} from a lot of the assholes on the keyboard forum. 90% of them don't really gig over there so I come here because it is a little more serious. It's all good. *makes mental note to avoid keyboard forum* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 It's all good. *makes mental note to avoid keyboard forum* Makes me kinda want to go over there and "stir the pot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arf-boy Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 Nothing in my sig cost me more than $400. I play them through mostly Peavey amps (TNT130, TKO115, KB/A30) plus a Yamaha G100-212-II and I have an Electro-Harmonix Freedom. Highest price amoing the lot was $275. I like my tone and get only compliments on my sound. But I also try to keep the stuff in decent shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.