Members TrickyBoy Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Unless you know how to use them.... Love the Police. I agree if you can get it right, it's badass. Just saying that I'd probably play that clean (at a club with {censored}ty acoustics, etc.) and no one would notice. EDIT: It's extra badass on a professionally mastered live recording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tacdryver Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 It never fails to amaze....people that stick to a weak position in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary....song choice will determine the equipment needed.....If you don't need pedals, don't use them...I also want to see some 'guy show up with a Princeton reverb, no pedals...and nail Van Halen's tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 In 20 years plus of playing, I have met just one guy in all that time who could plug a Strat (cheap Squire at that) into a basic two channel amp (Marshall Valvestate 8080) and nail ANY song/tone by changing his tone/volume/reverb settings. He had two channels (yes, you do need at least two). End of the day though, he did want some quality effects to add on top to make his life easier.. I'd avoid that guy. If he was making phase, delay, octavia, reverb, wah, and tremelo sounds with his fingers, he was obviously involved in some sort of black magic. Why do you need "at least two" channels, btw? I played for years plugged straight into a Fender Pro Jr. I wasn't, of course, able to conjure up effects with my fingertips like your buddy, but I'm only human. At any rate, if you get your dirt from pedals (or from their interaction with the amp, which is more accurate), why would you need another amp channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 re: SRV- When was the last time you listened to "Cold Shot"? Or is a leslie not an effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 hmm, so the band that actually wrote and recorded the song doesn't do it "right" live. Interesting. Frankly, I look at how the bands play the songs live more than how the songs were recorded. Good for you. I tend to trust my ear as well. Truthfully, the solo sounded like {censored} live when they did it without a slide. I think that's a step backwards, and shows that perhaps they had someone overdub the solo that could actually play slide (like, perhaps, their friend George Harrison). I couldn't find info about who recorded the solo on the net, unfortunately. lol, the clip you posted sounds nothing like the original solo either... I realize that, but if you have any sort of ear you'll realize I am 100% right about it being a slide solo on the recording if you actually bother to listen to the original song. And the point was why would Vivian Campbell bother to even think of using a slide if the original song wasn't recorded that way? Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 re: SRV- When was the last time you listened to "Cold Shot"? Or is a leslie not an effect? That's actually not a Leslie. It was a Fender Vibratone. It just sounds like a Leslie. Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeverTheMachine Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Oh, please. Generalize much? They're only as good as the user. Mine sounds just fine. My duo partner couldn't believe I wasn't using an amp at the restaurant gig, and the other guitar player in my cover band wants to get one because my one unit with an expression pedal does more than his 5 stomp boxes and sounds every bit as good. Didn't we just have this pissing contest? When I play rhythm guitar in the cover band, I use slap delay (3 different settings), a longer delay, a bit of modulation on some songs, tremolo on a couple, a leslie effect on two, a faint chorus on a couple, heavy chorus on a Police song, compression for sustain at a lower volume, varying degrees of overdrive, varying settings of EQ, and so on. Maybe you think guitars ought to have the same two or three sounds all night. Doesn't work for me. If you're happy with your sound, awesome, but capping on the OP as being unreasonable because he's looking for a certain type player to fill the bill and projecting your own preferences onto him is just being arrogant and elitist. "You want to try to sound like the record? In a cover band? That's crazy talk!":facepalm: How did I crap on him? I just wanted to know what he expected, since he didn't reply again in the post. I'm not anti-pedal, in fact I just spent last night redoing my board and took a picture with my phone. I just feel that if a guy is as good a player as he says, he could sound good on rhythm guitar without using effects, if he can control balanced clean to overdrive to distorted tones with his volume knob and pickups. It's possible. I tried to be very specific to his situation. This guy is supposed to be a hired gun, I was under the impression that the original R guitar who got a job out of town is going to be back sometime. He said the guy is a good player. Why not have a good player for a while as he is, if he is what he is (see my first post)? Pedals cost money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members piersonm Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Sounds like you have the wrong guy for the band.Max Theres your answer! Whats the prob, he isn't trying to change you guys, so don't try to change him. Wave goodbye and go on with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 That is a good point...as much as I can describe it here, its difficult to get accross everything that is happening...we clicked with this guy personally, nice guy, manageable ego, no substance or reliability issues, and he has skill...he seemed really geeked to be playing and learning our songs, but he wanted to use his rig that is taylored to a more bluesy tone...Like I mentioned before, there are quite a few songs in our set list that require chorus and delay...hell i told him id do all the wah parts, all he needs is a chorus and delay...he came by tonight with his board...he has about 6 pedals and they ALL boutique LOL, not a boss in the bunch LOL This update shows that nobody was trying to be a dickhead, and it wasn't a matter of the guy not being able to afford any effects, or any flakiness from the guy, or heavy-handedness from TFH, for that matter.Everybody just let their imaginations go crazy, and started condemning both parties, and even the entire premise of the thread (which is partly due to TFH's somewhat knee-jerk title of the thread), without really knowing what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 That's actually not a Leslie. It was a Fender Vibratone. It just sounds like a Leslie. Brian V. Doh!!! Back to school for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Z_Zoquis Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Good for you. I tend to trust my ear as well. Truthfully, the solo sounded like {censored} live when they did it without a slide. I think that's a step backwards, and shows that perhaps they had someone overdub the solo that could actually play slide (like, perhaps, their friend George Harrison). I couldn't find info about who recorded the solo on the net, unfortunately. I realize that, but if you have any sort of ear you'll realize I am 100% right about it being a slide solo on the recording if you actually bother to listen to the original song. And the point was why would Vivian Campbell bother to even think of using a slide if the original song wasn't recorded that way? Brian V. Yeah, I don't really doubt its a slide solo on the original. All I'm saying is I don't beat myself up trying to mimic exact tones and things on songs when the band that actually wrote the damn song can't match the album recording in a live situation. I can do a reasonable take on the solo in No Matter What without a slide - likely closer than whats on several of the Badfinger recordings. You think anyone in the audience at the local watering hole is going to be concerned with the lack of slide? I've seen several bands locally cover the tune with no slide solo too. Sounds fine and the crawd loved it. There've been lots of times in the past when I've tried to match a particular tone on a recording only to find live recordings by the actual band where they didn't come anywhere close to the original recording either. If the actual band that did the original and knows exactly what was done on the original and has access to all the original equipment can't match the original recording, how am I - admittedly just a weekend warrior in a geezer band - supposed to get there? I've more or less settled on just finding a "suitable" substitute tone that I can get in many cases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 I guess we take a little pride in covering songs close to the recording. I would bet that nearly no one in the audience would be familiar with a live recording of No Matter What. I also would not play One Way Out without a slide guitar. There are just so many good songs that we don't bother with the ones that we don't have the proper intruments to cover. It is the same reason that I don't play songs from the 60s and 70s with high gain distortion like I have seen so many bands do. Some bands prefer to do thier own versions of songs and other like us try to get fairly close to the original recording. There is no right or wrong just personal preference. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Yeah, I don't really doubt its a slide solo on the original. All I'm saying is I don't beat myself up trying to mimic exact tones and things on songs when the band that actually wrote the damn song can't match the album recording in a live situation. I can do a reasonable take on the solo in No Matter What without a slide - likely closer than whats on several of the Badfinger recordings. You think anyone in the audience at the local watering hole is going to be concerned with the lack of slide? I've seen several bands locally cover the tune with no slide solo too. Sounds fine and the crawd loved it. There've been lots of times in the past when I've tried to match a particular tone on a recording only to find live recordings by the actual band where they didn't come anywhere close to the original recording either. If the actual band that did the original and knows exactly what was done on the original and has access to all the original equipment can't match the original recording, how am I - admittedly just a weekend warrior in a geezer band - supposed to get there? I've more or less settled on just finding a "suitable" substitute tone that I can get in many cases... Honestly there is nothing difficult about No Matter What. We pull it off with two guitars no problem. I play the Leslie rhythm part, the other guy plays the slide parts ,and the other rhythm parts. Maybe the badfiger guys just didn't play slide? If we can pull it off like the record it really can't be that tough, cause we are not exactly the best players on the planet. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tex Bob Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Honestly there is nothing difficult about No Matter What. We pull it off with two guitars no problem. I play the Leslie rhythm part, the other guy plays the slide parts ,and the other rhythm parts. Maybe the badfiger guys just didn't play slide? If we can pull it off like the record it really can't be that tough, cause we are not exactly the best players on the planet. Max It's a great song, no matter how you slice it. I love those guys... I know George Harrison is all over the record, he may have played slide on the track. I think Pete Ham played some slide too, but they may not have wanted to deal with it live (having guitars set up for slide, etc.) and just simplified it. Man, I need to get out and see you guys! I've got a lot of respect for your attention to the details on the tunes, I honestly wouldn't have thought about the Leslie bit myself, and I've played that song a few hundred times (I cheat and don't play slide on it, although for fun I've done the solo with an Ebow which is kinda cool, but definitely not authentic.) Hiwatt has a slightly different philosophy in that we try to take the songs we do and make them our own a bit rather than being as true to the original as possible. I'm in a couple of other projects that are much more focused on keeping the songs as close to original as possible. I like both approaches, actually, and have a ton of respect for guys that work hard on pulling off the original as close as possible. Just, as you've said, different perspectives and different approaches- it's all good, as long as we all keep on rockin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 How did I crap on him? I just wanted to know what he expected, since he didn't reply again in the post. I'm not anti-pedal, in fact I just spent last night redoing my board and took a picture with my phone. I just feel that if a guy is as good a player as he says, he could sound good on rhythm guitar without using effects, if he can control balanced clean to overdrive to distorted tones with his volume knob and pickups. It's possible. I tried to be very specific to his situation. This guy is supposed to be a hired gun, I was under the impression that the original R guitar who got a job out of town is going to be back sometime. He said the guy is a good player. Why not have a good player for a while as he is, if he is what he is (see my first post)? Pedals cost money! 1) I said capping, not crapping! 2) my last paragraph was intended as a general comment to everyone, not just you. I didn't say that, though. Fail on my part. 3) I get what your point is now, and I agree with it. I'm a little slow sometimes. 4) That pedalboard is awesome. I think I may have just popped a chub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members piersonm Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Do you people even read the OP's updates, or do you just read and react to others, for the sake of argument?(posted yesterday) I'm gonna wait a week to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tacdryver Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Most of these threads could be labeled... " I dealt with a dumb {censored} musician today, what do you think?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Most of these threads could be labeled... " I dealt with a dumb {censored} musician today, what do you think?" Well, I got around to reading your Godwin-invoking (and thankfully edited) "I hate musicians" post, today... so I'll agree with your premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeverTheMachine Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 1) I said capping, not crapping! 2) my last paragraph was intended as a general comment to everyone, not just you. I didn't say that, though. Fail on my part. 3) I get what your point is now, and I agree with it. I'm a little slow sometimes. 4) That pedalboard is awesome. I think I may have just popped a chub. Thanks .. I'm still working on it. I hardly even play guitar at home anymore, I just do this. Which is why I understand that using pedals can be a slippery slope. The Rhythm guitarist in question may know this too and might not want to bother, who knows. I wanted to get a single delay like the DD-20 or DL4 but realized that the size of those monsters take up more room than the three delays I have now. I Want to replace the the Jekyll and Hyde space with an RC Booster , Fulltone Ultimate Octave and replace Boss octave then I'm set. Does anyone know where to get small right angle cables on the cheap online? If I had more of those I can save even more space. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Does anyone know where to get small right angle cables on the cheap online? If I had more of those I can save even more space. G http://www.drumza.com/product/CoreX2-Single-Right-Angle-Connector-Standard.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Texas Bob, I am off this weekend. I'll check your website and see where you guys are playing. I need to stop by one of your gigs and say hello. I have yet to see your band, but have heard many good things. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevesherbert Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 True bypass is a "successful product in the marketplace?" You sound like you're talking out your ass. True bypass is a way to construct a pedal, not a seperate "product" altogether. Not all non-true-bypass pedals are buffered, either; some just simply switch the input or output and leave it at that. At any rate, the fact that some particular pedals might "suck tone" doesn't say anything about pedals in general. Every pedal on my board is true-bypass. I only have 5 pedals in line, though, so a buffer isn't really necessary with my rig, but if I do need one, I could just throw a buffered-bypass pedal in line.Why would I need a seperate switching system with my setup? Do you understand how the bypass mechanisms in pedals actually work, at all? There are 3 different ways of doing it, within the pedal itself, two of which don't involve a buffer, and one of which doesn't "suck tone" at all. You thinkt the signal travelling through a 3PDT really makes an audible difference in tone? Seriously? Beyond that, all buffers are not created equal. There's so much wrong in your post I hardly even know where to start.You're going on this "pedals suck tone" rant without even mentioning the first thing, electronically, about WHY you think "they" suck tone, or even what pedals you're talking about. What you're saying is akin to saying "Cars have flat tires." i never claimed to know how true bypass pedals work. i'm more of an amp guy, but i don't really know how they work either. of course different pedals are different. i probably haven't tried any of the pedals on your board. my guitar sounds best when plugged straight into a nice tube amp. i love the sound when i really dig into the strings and i like using picking intensity to create different tones. it seems like the dynamic way a clean guitar signal hits an amp only ever gets flattened by things in between. do they make decompressors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 re: SRV- When was the last time you listened to "Cold Shot"? Or is a leslie not an effect? The vibratone (hell, close enough) would definitely be considered an effect, and even if it weren't, the fuzz faces, tubescreamers, and wahs definitely qualify. I think he even used a Univibe, sometimes, but I'm not positive about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members S.L.B. Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 4) That pedalboard is awesome. I think I may have just popped a chub. If that lasts more than 4 hours you should probably consult a physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 i never claimed to know how true bypass pedals work. i'm more of an amp guy, but i don't really know how they work either. of course different pedals are different. i probably haven't tried any of the pedals on your board. my guitar sounds best when plugged straight into a nice tube amp. i love the sound when i really dig into the strings and i like using picking intensity to create different tones. it seems like the dynamic way a clean guitar signal hits an amp only ever gets flattened by things in between. do they make decompressors? I don't know about the rest of the pedals on my board, but it definitely doesn't sound like you've tried a good fuzz face or clone. Buffers are not compressors. If you use a tuner pedal (surely you do, right?), your signal is probably already going through a buffer. Unless you have it bypassed with an A/B box...which would be EXACTLY the same thing as a 3PDT switch...which is exactly the same as a cable, electronically speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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