Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 Come too think of it my singer could use a autotune that works for real time performances.Do they make em and how many $$$$ do they cost? Of course. Antares makes a unit, Digitech, TC...... They typically cost less than 400 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted February 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 I saw a guy perform regularly at an open mic, he was pretty horrid, just a kid though- about 15 years old. He could barely play, and his singing was terrible and pointed to potential tone-deafness. Three weeks later, the kid shows up with a floor pedal auto-tune, with built in harmony/accompaniment. He sang GREAT that night, and it at times sounded like he had one and two backup vocalists behind him. So, I wonder if that is acceptable, can I get a guitar rig that plays blinding arpeggios , legatos etc.. all by my hitting a root note. Maybe it should just create a random solo for me if I hold down the rhythm notes. Maybe future artists can just paint with robotic paintbrushes that auto-correct weak lines? A $50 add-on to the package would be auto-color enhancement. I go back and listen to "the song remains the same".. and I'm saddened that drums, guitar, bass, and vocals may never again be dynamic like that in recorded music. What we're hearing anymore isn't art IMO. I'm so glad that live performances (at least my own) are still dynamic and honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 I don't have a problem when it's used as a tool, like Squid said, to fix a bum note in an otherwise very good recording. I have a problem when it's used as a crutch, and when it's used live--especially on the lead vocal. That's just my opinion, of course. I love it when customers/bar patrons bitch to me about someone using a drum machine, or a vocal harmonizer, or some other obviously synthetic form of creating sound waves. It lets me know there are still some true music fans out there, that 'get' what I get from music, which is human expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 I don't have a problem when it's used as a tool, like Squid said, to fix a bum note in an otherwise very good recording. I have a problem when it's used as a crutch, and when it's used live--especially on the lead vocal. That's just my opinion, of course. I love it when customers/bar patrons bitch to me about someone using a drum machine, or a vocal harmonizer, or some other obviously synthetic form of creating sound waves. It lets me know there are still some true music fans out there, that 'get' what I get from music, which is human expression. I dont have a problem with a drum machine. they have become a necessary evil for alot of solo guys and can add alot to a duo or trio. I have played with drummers that I would rather have had a drum machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted February 25, 2010 Members Share Posted February 25, 2010 I dont have a problem with a drum machine. they have become a necessary evil for alot of solo guys and can add alot to a duo or trio. I have played with drummers that I would rather have had a drum machine. I get that, too, and I'm not automatically turned off by one. But if the real drummer sucks, I'd still rather just go without one, personally. Maybe it was a really good drum machine that didn't just sound like a spiffed-up metronome, that would be different. Most I've heard in a live setting just have a crappy, thin sound to them, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Come too think of it my singer could use a autotune that works for real time performances.Do they make em and how many $$$$ do they cost? I have the Antares AVP-1 that I bought for $400 several years ago and have used live. Single space rack unit with 35 preset locations. You need to create your own patches meaning you need to use a pre-defined scale or edit it to suit yourself. There are several different adjustments to get the best sound from it. There is no USB port or software editor, everything must be done from the front panel. I've never used this particular unit on any of my recordings until my most recent one, however, I have used the pitch correction built into Sonar on a couple. Most of my songs predate my having any pitch correction but I'm certain you'd never be able to tell which do and which don't. There is only one where the usage is obvious, I used the Sonar pitch correction in my song titled "Angels Taught Me..." for weird harmonies. Some of the newer units are more automated in that they'll take a guitar or keyboard input and generate the proper pitch from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted February 26, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I dont have a problem with a drum machine. they have become a necessary evil for alot of solo guys and can add alot to a duo or trio. I have played with drummers that I would rather have had a drum machine. Yeah, we've all played with poor musicians.. doesn't justify using a drum machine though.. just happens to be an available excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreenAsJade Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I loved it! There might be auto-toons out there, but there's still talent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RHA Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Apparently, the NY Times reviewer who went to the Black Eyed Peas show at MSG last night didn't much care for the autotune or any of the other offputting technological wizardry that dehumanized the band... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/26/arts/music/26peas.html?ref=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dukey Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Been doing weddings etc for the past 20 years as a one-man band - just me, my voice, my keyboards and a drum-machine (Roland CR-1000). I never ever had to use or need to use (for 5 years I'm now part of a 6pers. coverband) any pitch corrector on my voice, I've learned to stay in tune and still can (except when I'm coming down with a cold or recovering from it). I also never though that my drummmachine (that I still use sometimes for band practice whenever our drummer can't make it) sounded thin (luckily a lot of people in the audience also thought so), in fact I've always been complimented on my sound. When paying solo I play bass with my left hand, and my right hand is free for chords and solo's (the right hand side of my main keyboard is connected to 2 modules by midi. I've never ever used midi-files whatever - always played live. Ofcourse if a song is beyond my vocal capabilities I always felt free to adjust the original height to a height that suited my voice. I guess it just depends on the instruments you use and how you use them. I guess the real reason why so may artists need to use auto-tune equipment to stay in tune lies in the fact that maybe they're just not talented enough - they only look hot or whatever, can maybe sing a little bit, but are big moneymakers because of their looks (or whatever). Just my opinion though.GreetzWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dancebass Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I dont have a problem with a drum machine. Those things are arrogant assholes!!! They're always like "I NEVER make a mistake! It's obviously YOU that's the problem NOT ME!!" Jerks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rvschulz Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Except for comedic effect (Autotune the News and DJ Steve Porter's sports mashups), it is a blight on existence. Like Kramerguy said, it's most noticeable on certain pitch shifts. When I hear that, it's like nails on a chalkboard to my ears. Everything starts sounding robotic after a certain point. auto-tune the News is freaking hilarious. i totally agree about the blight. my 18 yo daughter was driving with me yesterday and Beyonce came on. I asked her who it was since I don;t listen to modern music period - i turned it up to get an idea about her talent. the auto-tune seemed apparent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Those things are arrogant assholes!!! They're always like "I NEVER make a mistake! It's obviously YOU that's the problem NOT ME!!" Jerks! Pouring a little beer into them really changes their attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V-Type Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I have the Antares AVP-1 that I bought for $400 several years ago and have used live. Single space rack unit with 35 preset locations. You need to create your own patches meaning you need to use a pre-defined scale or edit it to suit yourself. There are several different adjustments to get the best sound from it. There is no USB port or software editor, everything must be done from the front panel. I've never used this particular unit on any of my recordings until my most recent one, however, I have used the pitch correction built into Sonar on a couple. Most of my songs predate my having any pitch correction but I'm certain you'd never be able to tell which do and which don't. There is only one where the usage is obvious, I used the Sonar pitch correction in my song titled "Angels Taught Me..." for weird harmonies. Some of the newer units are more automated in that they'll take a guitar or keyboard input and generate the proper pitch from that. Thanks much. I was unaware that such realtime voice correction existed. Hell I may sell my guitar gear and be a vocalist what with these nifty little buggers. Now if we just had a talent processor we would definitely be in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Pouring a little beer into them really changes their attitude! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I get that, too, and I'm not automatically turned off by one. I am. Can't stand 'em myself. To me, there MUST be the human expression factor for me to call it music. But if the real drummer sucks, I'd still rather just go without one, personally. Exactly. And I'd much rather hear a solo act who just plays unaccompanied than one who uses a bunch of sequenced parts and/or a drum machine. Lucky, my stalwart attitude has resulted in me knowing a LOT of good drummers who appreciate playing with me, so I don't have to worry about ever being in a situation where I'd consider using a drum machine (not that I would anyway, but just sayin'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 I don't have a problem when it's used as a tool, like Squid said, to fix a bum note in an otherwise very good recording. I have a problem when it's used as a crutch, and when it's used live--especially on the lead vocal. Me too. And it's a fine line sometimes between a tool and a crutch. I actually think a lot of singers don't work as hard these days to get a good take, or to be prepared before they go into the studio by having practiced the songs in pre-production enough to be able to sing them well - they feel like they don't have to. If there's a great performance with one bum note, it's usually not a problem to sing the one line over again and get it right. I've never had to resort to using pitch correction on vocals. The only thing I've ever found it useful for is to correct an otherwise wonderful sounding old instrument that has poor intonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Did you know that John Mayer, as talented as he is, gets mildly tuned? That his awesome drummer and producer Steve Jordan gets mildly time corrected? Yes, I did know that, and I think it really sucks and is detrimental to his records, which to me sound generic and boring and not up to the potential of the talent involved. Same goes for a lot of artists these days who are legit talents and still resort to this kind of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 26, 2010 Moderators Share Posted February 26, 2010 Yes, I did know that, and I think it really sucks and is detrimental to his records, which to me sound generic and boring and not up to the potential of the talent involved. Same goes for a lot of artists these days who are legit talents and still resort to this kind of crap. Well.. I knew you knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Thanks much. I was unaware that such realtime voice correction existed. Hell I may sell my guitar gear and be a vocalist what with these nifty little buggers. Now if we just had a talent processor we would definitely be in business. Well, contrary to popular belief, these boxes aren't magic. They can help me a little on a long full night gig, usually for me there's nothing more than an occasional chorusing effect but the box is useless for say........my woman who has never been a singer. Also my range is limited, I do Tom Petty/Mick Jagger there's no Steve Perry/Geddy Lee for me. I sometimes wish I hadn't bought the unit, I could certainly get by without it at the places I've played but since I did buy it I've often felt compelled to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 Well.. I knew you knew that. LOL... well yeah, but I mean it's kind of a loaded question because people have a tendency to believe that "if the big boys all do it, even the legitimately talented ones, it must be a good thing, so maybe I should do it too." And I completely disagree with that. Major artists and certainly labels have just as much of a tendency to jump on bandwagons and second-guess their own talent as anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted February 26, 2010 Members Share Posted February 26, 2010 The only thing I've ever found it useful for is to correct an otherwise wonderful sounding old instrument that has poor intonation. Hmmm. Interesting. Was it single line guitar notes, or some other crazy instrument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted February 27, 2010 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2010 By the way, have any of you ever just spent some time goofing off with pitch-correction software? When we were mixing one of my old band's albums and we were getting into late night punch-drunk silly territory, our producer started playing around with all these intentionally bad extreme settings. Some of it sounded so funny I was seriously in danger of pissing myself laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 27, 2010 Members Share Posted February 27, 2010 By the way, have any of you ever just spent some time goofing off with pitch-correction software? When we were mixing one of my old band's albums and we were getting into late night punch-drunk silly territory, our producer started playing around with all these intentionally bad extreme settings. Some of it sounded so funny I was seriously in danger of pissing myself laughing! The little breakdown that comes early in my You Better Believe song is probably a mild example of that although it's not wacky enough to destroy the song. It's basically octaves of my vocal line panning and fading in/out. Playing with wacky sounds is half the fun of music making for me! That's why I'm always an early adopter of music technology. There's no money in it, I might as well have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 27, 2010 Members Share Posted February 27, 2010 Yes, I did know that, and I think it really sucks and is detrimental to his records, which to me sound generic and boring and not up to the potential of the talent involved. Same goes for a lot of artists these days who are legit talents and still resort to this kind of crap. That does suck. There's no room for auto-tune in blues. He should be booe'd off the stage for doing that. What a shame that this talented young blues guitarist and songwriter is using trickery to sanitize his performances: his blues idols would most certainly NOT approve of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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