Don't post in this forum if you play for free

[wades_keys]

So Wade, if you have successfully created new opportunities and gigs, and things are on the up-and-up with your group, that counts for something, even if you have never played music for a living. Would you mind giving a run-down of how you are making this happen?

 

Tim would be the better person to ask, as he books our gigs.

 

But like I've said before, we're getting gigs that are off the beaten path:

 

Cutter's Wharf

Captain's Quarters

Thunder Over Louisville Corporate Area

Louisville Riverbats baseball

 

We just played one of our best shows ever last night at Captain's Quarters: stage presence is improving, rapport with the crowd is improving, we got compliments on a "balanced" sound all night.....

 

In previous bands, there was more of a "follow the leader" mentality: we'd find out where other bands of our genre were playing and try and target those rooms.

 

In this band, we don't give a {censored} where other bands are playing: all venues are a possibility.

 

I think that's the difference, and the cool thing is we don't have to put up with the bar scene, loading out at 2AM....The latest we play generally is 12AM.

 

I realize that these descriptions are a bit nebulous: "where's the formula" you say?

 

Well, the formula is: there IS no formula.

 

We were one of the first if not THE first full bands to play at Capn's Quarters: prior to that, they booked mainly low volume duos. No doubt the "follow the leader" bands looked at that and thought "well, they don't book full bands, and it's a small place, so they wouldn't have us". See, that's the problem right there - ya gotta figure SOMEBODY has to be first - first to propose "hey, try our band out".

 

Now, Captain's quarters has installed lights and carved out a bigger space inside for full bands: they didn't have that when we started in there last year, and I'm convinced that the success our band has there is a big part why they made that commitment.

 

Our identity is: we're the "anti big rock show"....I look and listen and what goes on here a lot is big dumbass volume, just beat you over the head with it....

 

We're NOT that band - we're the band that plays at appropriate volumes for the room.

 

That's actually a breath of fresh air in this market.

 

So what I bring to this band primarily is a strong awareness of the "scene": I've been a fan of local music for years and I watch and listen, and what I've heard and seen is too loud, too aggressive, too dumb....We cater to 30+ crowds that want to get up and dance but don't want to have their bell rung with the stupid volume.

 

Believe it or not, there really aren't that many bands here that operate that way without sounding like tepid wedding bands with no energy: we do the "bluess thing" to give it a little more edge.

 

Sorry for the ramble, but you did ask.

 

I guess in summary it's all about having an identity and not being afraid to get in a venue, any venue.

[bubblegum]

So, the next time I'm in Louisville, (other than going to basic at Knox) my band should be a breath of fresh air and try to gig all over. I'll remember that, but for now, how do we do things the right way, for the benefit of all musicians, (cover types or originals), in the Seattle area.
I'm in an original working band and I want to help make things right.


Please do not let my lack of knowledge come off as a personal attack, just an up and coming musicians question to working professionals.

[wades_keys]

So, the next time I'm in Louisville, (other than going to basic at Knox) my band should be a breath of fresh air and try to gig all over. I'll remember that, but for now, how do we do things the right way, for the benefit of all musicians, (cover types or originals), in the Seattle area. I'm in an original working band and I want to help make things right. Please do not let my lack of knowledge come off as a personal attack, just an up and coming musicians question to working professionals.

I don't know what to tell you brother.

All I can say is what's working for me: I'm not claiming to have all the answers. Just gig: gigs cure all the ills.

Work the phone: pile on the charm, get the gigs. Our leader is professional salesman. He knows how to talk to people, he knows how to get back with people: he uses his real world sales experience to close the deal.

We are also very organized: we use google docs to maintain band information, we send around setlists a week in advance so we can all have a say in song order.

If you're looking for a formula, you're doing it wrong. Just work smarter and efficiently: minimize rehearsals, eliminate time-wasting stuff, record your arrangements, document your arrangements.....and most of all have fun and play with CONVICTION.

Our gig to rehearsal ratio is about 15:1, and we don't suck musically. Then again, we're all in our forties and have been playing music for years.

[bubblegum]

^^^^^^Words to live by.

I guess we all know it, but need to hear it outloud on occassion.

Thank you! BTW I did basic at Knox back in '02 and had a great time in Louisville after graduating, nothing bad to say about that area, except the snow during a 12 mile ruck march!

[wades_keys]

^^^^^^Words to live by. I guess we all know it, but need to hear it outloud on occassion. Thank you! BTW I did basic at Knox back in '02 and had a great time in Louisville after graduating, nothing bad to say about that area, except the snow during a 12 mile ruck march!

Cool man - you've got a good outlook on things it seems.

You know: musicians can be stubborn petty and very insecure.

Working around those issues in yourself (recognizing them first is the hardest part) and in others is a big part of the deal too.

The stubborness is why for instance guitarists won't consider using a smaller rig to keep volume under control. It's why drummers won't consider using smaller sticks or a different "touch".....It's why bands won't consider playing songs that would fit a known crowd, because they "suck".

The insecurity is why young bands in particular won't incorporate certain styles in their playing: they say it's because it sucks but really what they mean is they are too chicken{censored} to take a chance in front of their "Peers" - like the cool kids that always went with the crowd in high school.

The pettiness is why a band that is getting no gigs will still argue that doing better promotion is a "waste of time, because band x gets gigs without all of that".

So I guess what I'm saying is that if you don't have a good team, none of the other stuff matters.

You can relate to your military experience - that's you need in a band, and almost military like dedication to what you want to achieve, and a good system to work within.

If I were you, I'd try to find other people with similar backgrounds to form a band with: ex-military. Watch out that it doesn't go all Sgt. Rock - but use the organizational skills and the reliance on a system that you learned in the military to keep things moving forward.

Two words: Situational Awareness.

Our team is composed of:
Retired military
Pro Salesman
I.T. Consultant
Retired "Rockstar" (signed to a label, toured Europe and American East Coast)

EDIT: thinking this over, I realize why so many young original bands are either made or broken by their MANAGERS. We manage ourselves, but that's due in large part to 3 of us having real world management experience.

Brian Epstein got the Beatles into Berlin through sheer force of will. Of course it didn't hurt that they kicked ass.

[HairyScaryMark]

I think the original poster was making fun of the guys who regularly come out with things like this.

 

Out of interest, where does it say this forum is just for covers/working bands?

 

Most of the guys in these bands are doing it as a job and depend on the income.

 

Original market is where the fun and the art is first consideration and making any real money from it, is much more difficult but not impossible if there are people out there who like what you do.

 

Original and covers are usually not competing for the same types of gigs and different places put on these things. It's two quite separate markets, at least over here it is anyway.

[rhat]

I think the original poster was making fun of the guys who regularly come out with things like this. Out of interest, where does it say this forum is just for covers/working bands? Most of the guys in these bands are doing it as a job and depend on the income. Original market is where the fun and the art is first consideration and making any real money from it, is much more difficult but not impossible if there are people out there who like what you do. Original and covers are usually not competing for the same types of gigs and different places put on these things. It's two quite separate markets, at least over here it is anyway.

 

 

The guys I know who do the best are solo acts who do both covers and original music. When they need a full band they bring in guys for the full band show. The lineup will vary on the full band due to the fact that in exchange for workin cheap,,we have the freedom to drift in and out of the full band act. He knows enough guys to flex with who he has on tap to work the rhythm section and make a full band show work. He does have a regular group that backs him,, but sometimes one of us is MIA> so he runs in a sub or runs a man short. Not a hard thing for him to do since lots of guys have done enough jam nights and worked in trios to pull it off.

[modulusman]

The guys I know who do the best are solo acts who do both covers and original music. When they need a full band they bring in guys for the full band show. The lineup will vary on the full band due to the fact that in exchange for workin FOR FREE we have the freedom to drift in and out of the full band act. He knows enough guys to flex with who he has on tap to work the rhythm section and make a full band show work. He does have a regular group that backs him,, but sometimes one of us is MIA> so he runs in a sub or runs a man short. Not a hard thing for him to do since lots of guys have done enough jam nights and worked in trios to pull it off.

Fixed it for you.

[rhat]

Fixed it for you.

You seem to have more of a problem about me pitchin in and playing for a buddy for free than I do. To me its no big deal. He is the full time pro that actually makes a living at this without a day job. He has enough friends to field a band when he needs one. I guess it boils down to good things happen for nice guys. Its also real nice to be able to take off and go do what you want to do , an not have any ties. Its a win win situation. He has a backing band and we can wonder off when we feel like it to go do what we want to do. This deal is moving toward a paying gig, since he is doing real well with his original stuff. I am the only one that has to be happy with the situation and its for now workin for me. Maybe some day you can support yourself as a full time musican and get to drop the construction job. Being a nice guy can help I guess. You have friends who are willing to step up to the plate fo you.

[vanlatte]

You seem to have more of a problem about me pitchin in and playing for a buddy for free than I do.

 

 

I have noticed this too; I think some people are confusing your situation with the "Come play our club for (free) exposure!

 

Apples and Oranges. I see nothing at all wrong with your situation, in fact it sounds cool as hell.

[modulusman]

I have noticed this too; I think some people are confusing your situation with the "Come play our club for (free) exposure! Apples and Oranges. I see nothing at all wrong with your situation, in fact it sounds cool as hell.

 

 

So if some band in your area has only one member getting paid do you think it has an affect on what bar owners are willing to pay? It makes it hard for any other band to compete when they need to split the money 4-5 ways instead of one.

[rhat]

So if some band in your area has only one member getting paid do you think it has an affect on what bar owners are willing to pay? It makes it hard for any other band to compete when they need to split the money 4-5 ways instead of one.

 

 

 

Mod this music scene runs on solo and duo acts. To be real honest ,, full bands cant compete well in this market anyway ,, this solo guy we play with can pack any bar down there all by himself. So you could not compete with him as a full band anyway. He packs out 4 nights a week on his own ,,,, It doesnt matter how many guys are on stage,, the place is full anyway. Its pretty well an insider music scene since its so far form anywhere and you cant afford to run a band in from out of town. doing the so and so and guest is how you work your way into the scene. So thats what I am doing. It will pay off in the long run. I spent along time out of music.. and its a new scene for me ,, so I am just doing what it takes to get hooked up as a local guy.

 

Its a process.... and I am lucky to be runnin with the guys i am running with i figure. I am not worried about the money for the kinds of gigs we are playing now because there isnt that much money to worry about even for the full bands down there.

 

The only gig a band like yours could even make out on would be opening up for say someone like los lonely boys ,,,,and you know those slots prolly are insider deals that the boys are friends with and you prolly would never get a shot at that anyway.