Playing the Standards

[Vito Corleone]

Given that there are lots of popular tunes (both old and new) that aren't always the most danceable - do most forumites take liberties with tempo in order to help tunes become a little more danceable? Personally, I don't care for radical departures from the original tempo in most songs - but don't mind making small adjustments to put a tune in a more danceable meter.

 

 

+1. We try to keep things pretty close to the original tempo as much as possible, but songs will eventually find their own groove as the dance-floor dictates, I've found.

[pinkfloydcramer61]

RE non-standards that could actually get people dancing- I would nominate THIS Robben Ford cover of a Taj Mahal song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hcj2uhjN5s

If a band played it with anything approaching that kind of groove (tall order) I would wager that peeps- especially bootie music fans- would dance to it, familiar, standard or no.

[SeniorBlues]

RE non-standards that could actually get people dancing- I would nominate THIS Robben Ford cover of a Taj Mahal song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hcj2uhjN5s If a band played it with anything approaching that kind of groove (tall order) I would wager that peeps- especially bootie music fans- would dance to it, familiar, standard or no.

 

 

Classic back beat. I like it, but it's kinda slow. Yeah, if you know how to play that stuff, people would dig it. Your other two examples have a better chance.

[DevilRaysFan]

You want to talk about lazy bands? IMO, the #1 lazy things bands do is not playing 'standards', but not bothering to sell themselves. Whether that be through marketing or simply how they sell their songs onstage.

 

 

I agree but that goes hand-in-hand with picking idiot-proof songs, guido....apathy is apathy. Like you and a few others have pointed, when you try to take these songs and microscope it to nail down the groove, and are aware of those songs' nuances, or really take it to another place, thats a different thing: thats a great work ethic...Im not talking about those bands.

[maxnew40]

In my area north of Seattle I find that many Classic Rock bands are not playing those standards. Instead they play long boring guitar wankery songs like Stranglehold and Flirting With Disaster.

We play a few of those standards and I don't any problem with it. I played original music for many years, so I had never played Brown Eyed Girl before in my life. I play the acoustic 12 string part on that song, it is easy and fun.

Max

[ContractPilot]

I would be curious to see a commonly known 'standard' list for the clubs

[Vito Corleone]

I would be curious to see a commonly known 'standard' list for the clubs

Would depend on the genre and age group. If you're talking dance clubs with a younger (under 35) clientele, you could probably look at Jeff's and Jason's bands' songlists, find the common songs and you'd have the majority of the "standards" for that market right there.

Going a bit older into the wedding/corporate gig scene? None more standard than that list I posted earlier.

Strictly classic rock bands have a slightly different list of standards.

Country bands, blues bands & R&B are going to have their own list of standards as well.

[cooterbrown]

Would depend on the genre and age group. If you're talking dance clubs with a younger (under 35) clientele, you could probably look at Jeff's and Jason's bands' songlists, find the common songs and you'd have the majority of the "standards" for that market right there. Going a bit older into the wedding/corporate gig scene? None more standard than that list I posted earlier. Strictly classic rock bands have a slightly different list of standards. Country bands, blues bands & R&B are going to have their own list of standards as well.

 

Around where I live you could pick any four out of at least a hundred local musicians, agree on forty songs that everybody knows, play the gig, and get comments at the end of the night like "...you guys were great"

"...we're having a party - how much you guys charge", or "...how long have you guys been together?"

[wades_keys]

My drummer tends to play ahead of the beat.

I'm always trying to rein him in; sometimes that tension actually works.

I guess it's a question of perception.

Again, I'll say what I always do in these types of discussions, and what my mom always told me: "concentrate on what YOU can improve, and don't worry about what you can't control".

I'll say this about my attitude on stage: I'm listening to everything, I keep a clear head, I practice my instrument, I work on my time, and I do what I can to feel the groove and lay down something fat - I'm definitely not worried about what people are thinking, or thinking about anything at all other than being totally into the music.

Isn't that what it's all about?

Don't you all think that if each person in the band were to have that attitude and approach, then the band would be better?

I mean - Otherwise, what's the point? Should I lay down and not give a {censored} because somebody else on that stage isn't doing what I think should be done? Or worse, start overplaying out of a sense of "hey, look at me - I can play".

I mean, wtf is that? I'm not gonna quit, and I'm not gonna worry about how "WE" compare to anybody. I AIN'T WE. I'm ME. So I"M going to do the best goddamned job I can possibly do on that stage, regardless of what else may or may not be happening. I ain't in a bubble, I hear what's going on - I don't always like what I hear.

But goddammit I play, and I give it my best, and I'm not a chicken{censored} - I smile, have fun, and do what I can to make my band sound as good as it can sound.

I know some of you cats are highly accomplished, and I don't know what you do or don't work on in your own time. But goddamit I'd sure like to hear a lot more discussion about what "WE" as INDIVIDUALS can do to contribute to the sound of the band(s) that we are in.

Otherwise, I'm sorry to say - it just comes off as bragging ("MY band is better than yours").

[ContractPilot]

Not being in a band, I don't have bragging rights...but I do know that if you have 4 guys that all want to be better, putting the audience first...that's a group of guys I would like to play with.

[rhat]

Boy howdy! I love it, have always loved it, and will continue a blues band in some form, but I've always been a pragmatist and learned years ago to play whatever put bread and butter on the table. That's why my solo act morphed from mostly blues to mostly folky/bluesy/alt countryish/Americana/revamped classic rock stuff. I play with one band in a side project; we're meeting next week to discuss keeping our blues material and the 70s covers we do but adding some 80s and 90s covers, and starting another side project within that band doing classic country, Americana and alt/outlaw country . Nobody here is doing it, but I get good response doing it solo. Every band around here is doing the same tired old blues thing, or classic rock (and some of them are quite good, better than I could do it) or their 15 original songs. Since no one's getting rich anyway, we might as well give it a shot at trying something different. Who knows, we might find an audience!

 

 

we do alot of that kind of music and it goes over well. Tonight was cajun night at the new bar ,,,,been doing it as a trio ,, bass, keys, and the acoustic front man. The place was full. Amazing for a thurs night. the accordian patch got a good work out ....

[BlueStrat]

Given that there are lots of popular tunes (both old and new) that aren't always the most danceable - do most forumites take liberties with tempo in order to help tunes become a little more danceable? Personally, I don't care for radical departures from the original tempo in most songs - but don't mind making small adjustments to put a tune in a more danceable meter.

 

 

If anything, I pull songs back a little bit to accent the backbeat. Especially if it's funk or R&B. Those two genres can go from a nice groove to being a frigging march if they're played too fast.

 

Some songs I rework completely. We took the old Junior Wells tune 'Messin ' With The Kid" which is sort of a blues/R&B band staple but done to death, and cut the tempo about in half, turning into a really laid back heavy funk groove. We also cut out the hook line to every other verse, not every one. It really works well for a dance tune.

[BlueStrat]

Not being in a band, I don't have bragging rights...but I do know that if you have 4 guys that all want to be better, putting the audience first...that's a group of guys I would like to play with.

That's cool. I'd rather play with guys who want to do something a bit different and do it well enough to draw the audience into what we're doing. But it all depends on what your goals are. If I found satisfaction in getting an audience and making lots of money, I'd play nothing but popular covers from the 80s on up. But I just can't hang with that, and have been doing my own thing since about 1990. It's a lot more work, but over the years I've developed a fairly good reputation and a following to come watch and hear the band do what we do, so I have a lot of freedom to play what I want and be a bit more indulgent and still get paid decently. It's a niche that I've managed to create for myself, which we all do if we stay with it long enough.

[SeniorBlues]

If anything, I pull songs back a little bit to accent the backbeat. Especially if it's funk or R&B. Those two genres can go from a nice groove to being a frigging march if they're played too fast. Some songs I rework completely. We took the old Junior Wells tune 'Messin ' With The Kid" which is sort of a blues/R&B band staple but done to death, and cut the tempo about in half, turning into a really laid back heavy funk groove. We also cut out the hook line to every other verse, not every one. It really works well for a dance tune.

If you hear each note in the hook as a "snap", you can keep the groove going, even at fairly fast tempos. If you hear it as one tied phrase, it tends to get rushed, you can't execute the 16th notes, and now you're in freight train mode.

This can be applied to most, if not all, rock songs.

If the drummer can play clean eighths without dragging, and everybody else plays behind the beat, you're in business.

[ContractPilot]

If anything, I pull songs back a little bit to accent the backbeat. Especially if it's funk or R&B. Those two genres can go from a nice groove to being a frigging march if they're played too fast. Some songs I rework completely. We took the old Junior Wells tune 'Messin ' With The Kid" which is sort of a blues/R&B band staple but done to death, and cut the tempo about in half, turning into a really laid back heavy funk groove. We also cut out the hook line to every other verse, not every one. It really works well for a dance tune.

 

 

Funny you mention that, a guy I play with cut 'The Breeze' way back...it seems to come off pretty good...harder to solo to, when you have the original in your head....

[Vito Corleone]

I know some of you cats are highly accomplished, and I don't know what you do or don't work on in your own time. But goddamit I'd sure like to hear a lot more discussion about what "WE" as INDIVIDUALS can do to contribute to the sound of the band(s) that we are in. Otherwise, I'm sorry to say - it just comes off as bragging ("MY band is better than yours").

 

 

I don't really get a sense of anybody bragging much here. People DO come here and post about their wins, but there are a lot of posts about peoples losses as well---bad nights they had, bad crowds, bad run-ins with clubowners, problems with bandmates, etc.

 

Personally I know I can get a bit defensive about what I do when it is challenged because I work hard at it and proud when I do well, but I really don't mean to brag and hope it doesn't come off that way.

 

But it's nice to be able to talk about all this stuff with other people who get it. Even my very-patient wife doesn't get a lot of band-detail stuff I will tell her about. So this forum is great for that.

[moogerfooger]

No..sorry....I haven't heard your band but take away your singer and a solid guitar player and your doing 'Moonriver' on the keyboard... No one thinks much of Journey past the singer and his guitar player....he's what makes the band...pretty much the singer in Bonjovi and his guitar player as well....can you name the keyboard guy for Bon Jovi?

David Bryan

you have good point. My current band is a Journey, REO, STYX, Boston and Foreigner tribute. Most people probably couldn't name any of members of styx or Foreigner or REO or boston for that matter -- they might know steve perry. but they know the songs and that's really what matters. it still takes the rest of the band to put the songs over, but yea, people remember the hooks, as long as you can nail the hooks you have them.

[TrickyBoy]

I know some of you cats are highly accomplished, and I don't know what you do or don't work on in your own time. But goddamit I'd sure like to hear a lot more discussion about what "WE" as INDIVIDUALS can do to contribute to the sound of the band(s) that we are in.

I'll bite...

First off there's a lot of information that you're asking for throughout many threads, this one included. Song ideas, arrangement ideas, medley ideas, image, lights, sound, etc. etc. etc. All of this contributes to the success of the band.

The problem with your "WE" as INDIVIDUALS part is that a band is a team, and good ones, not to , are better than the sum of their parts. So what do I do to individually improve the sound of our band? Well...

1. I practice my ass off to the tune of 10-15 hours a week not including 4 hours of band practice a week. I make sure I know every tune we play inside and out. You might say "DUH!" but do we all do that???

2. I get out and see other bands REGULARLY. See what works and what doesn't. I'm not looking for specific ideas to steal. Instead, I like to watch for overall big picture concepts that really work and really don't work.

3. Take what you learn and become a coach to the other members. This is the hard part, because you can't come across as a dick. I see probably 8 bands a month, the other three members of my band probably see 1-2 combined among them. The experience of seeing all these other bands give me all sorts of ideas that have a better than average chance of succeeding. But I can't come across as a dictator. So I throw ideas out there and see what they like, but once they buy into an idea, I help make sure we execute it as well as possible.

4. Constantly think outside of the box. When I'm driving, I'm constantly looking for a new song to play. I flip through all kinds of stations. Here's my next medley... I was listening to some oldies station and Bette Midler's "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" came on and I was like... ding ding ding we have a winner. Then as I listened to it, it's the same beat/feel as "Rock This Town" by The Stray Cats... and a medley was born

Is there a level of bragging here? Absolutely. I think we all have a bit of narcissist in us. Otherwise, we'd have never gotten on stage in the first place. At the same time, I never feel like it gets to the point of "My Band's Better Than Your Band". It's more like "Look what I did!!!" YMMV

[Vito Corleone]

IThe problem with your "WE" as INDIVIDUALS part is that a band is a team, and good ones, not to , are better than the sum of their parts.

This and every band dynamic is so unique that you'll never find two individuals for whom the same MOs will exist.

My band doesn't play a circuit or even many public gigs. So while you're out checking out other bands, I'm online checking out other bands' websites and promo paks. At least 75% of our gigs come from people who have never even heard OF us before, so for us it's all about the promotion and the 'sale'. So I'm constantly looking at other bands' websites and packages for ideas that we can incorporate or even steal to improve what we're doing. And some of that includes onstage as well. Looking at live videos for staging and lighting ideas, looking at songlists to see what songs other bands are playing and not playing etc.

I've also got help from my bass player on this. He and I are the 'big picture' guys and are on the same page here. We both have pretty much the same vision for where we thing the band should be, what we should look like, sound like, what sort of gigs we should be getting, etc. We often call each other up several times a day with a "hey check THIS out" or "what do you think about doing this?" phone call. It also serves to keep each other fired up. He is the point man for booking gigs, and I'll usually call him up every morning asking him who he's calling today, what leads is he following up on, etc.

The drummer is more-or-less our musical director and will usually take the lead in rehearsal when coming up with arrangements, set flow, etc. I have a big hand in this too, but he likes doing it and is good at it so I try to give him free reign here. He wants to contribute and feel like it is his band as much as anybody elses and I certainly want to encourage that.

The other 2 are mostly just along for the ride but as long as they show up with their parts learned and are ready to go, that's enough.

[MikeyParent]

No..sorry....I haven't heard your band but take away your singer and a solid guitar player and your doing 'Moonriver' on the keyboard... No one thinks much of Journey past the singer and his guitar player....he's what makes the band...pretty much the singer in Bonjovi and his guitar player as well....can you name the keyboard guy for Bon Jovi?

 

 

David Bryan :-) (and I didnt google it)

[TrickyBoy]

And the drummer is Tico Torrez. Couldn't tell you the bass player, but they fired the original dude years ago

[Vito Corleone]

And the drummer is Tico Torrez. Couldn't tell you the bass player, but they fired the original dude years ago

 

 

I think the bass player IS the original dude---like the original original dude but he's just working as a hired gun and has for years. Not an official part of the band.

[MikeyParent]

Man, you oughta give another listen to Skynyrd and ZZ Top. There's plenty of room for keys in both of those bands: older ZZ Top material has keyboard parts in it

I love my droning synth bass in Sharp Dressed Man

[pickinatit]

Mustang Sally lives in the cover band world. It was popular when it was recorded but nothing special. I played in several bands in 1968-1972 that didn't play it - and not because we were deliberately avoiding it. It was just another song back then. It got a boost from the Commitments, but I think it's popular in the cover band circuit because it's dead simple to play, so everybody does it. Hold on I'm Coming has a signature horn line that the guitar player may or may not want to tackle. The rhythm is a strong 16th backbeat, which a lot of bands simply can't do. So if you do hear the song played, it's probably not done very well, so it didn't get the sustained exposure that Mustang Sally did.

 

 

Everyone does it because the CROWD wants it, not because it's easy to play. I think you have the cause and effect backward.

 

1968 - 1972 bands avoided Mustang Sally because the song was a couple years old and at that time bands HAD to stay as current with the top 40 hits as possible because there WAS no classic rock yet. Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry...early rock and roll tunes weren't even "Oldies" yet.

If you were playing songs that were a year or two old you would get tagged as a band that "played too much old stuff". Now we're arguing the same concept except about songs that are 30-40-50 years old. Even 80's music is going on thirty years old now.

[Rezrover]

I think the bass player IS the original dude---like the original original dude but he's just working as a hired gun and has for years. Not an official part of the band.

 

 

Wasn't Richie Sambora, Tico Torres, Dave Bryan, & Alex John Such the touring band off of Bon Jovi's first album because the studio guys couldn't/wouldn't go on the road?