DJ's: How successful would they be if they didn't work the crowd and only played.....

[wheresgrant3]

Don't fight what you do. Embrace it. Sell it. BE it. Be you.

 

This brings a little tear to my eye.

[Lee Knight]

[jeff42]

Now we do jenny jenny, swa, journey, etc.. and it just isn't us, and it's equally as much not them either (our fans), which is why we see so much failsville on songs that should be home runs. We saw drunk people dancing to Seether and thought maybe people wanted to dance more. I saw it worked for bands here, but in the end, I think we screwed up--- we had a formula that worked really well and we left it behind, on good intentions, but still, it didn't work. all about YMMV in the end. Find what works for you, I think I know now what works for us, and expand on it rather than divert away from it.

 

I will say yes, find what works for your group and be the best you can be at it! I have always said this, there is room out there for all types of cover bands! Just be interesting! We started out as a classic rock band, meaning mainly 70s rock and some 80s rock. Any new tunes were few and were rock tunes if they were new. We saw in our hometown NO ONE was playing dance music. So we added a few tunes and people liked 'em. So we added more and we found that we did 'em pretty well. We became for lack of some better terms a dance/party/variety band. And we like it. We do still play some rock tunes/ classic tunes but we are a "dance" band. Its cool. I feel that we offer something different and interesting. IMO that is.

 

Not everyone can be convincing/entertaining by pulling a rock cover of the latest pop/techno tune. Not everyone can sell the latest hard rock tune either.

[New Trail]

This thread has taken a turn away from DJ's but that's okay.

 

 

I will say yes, find what works for your group and be the best you can be at it! I have always said this, there is room out there for all types of cover bands! Just be interesting!.....

 

 

These are some interesting and thought provoking posts. If you really and truly believe in what you're doing, rather than just trying to do what it takes to be successful, the audience will pick up on that, too, and follow you, or you will attract an audience that likes what you do.......or not.....

[Vito Corleone]

 

These are some interesting and thought provoking posts. If you really and truly believe in what you're doing, rather than just trying to do what it takes to be successful, the audience will pick up on that, too, and follow you, or you will attract an audience that likes what you do.......or not.....

 

 

Another beat-to-death topic, but I suppose it bears repeating because it IS so important:

 

It less about the content than about the delivery. If you something really really well, you'll find an audience and people will respond. I don't care if that's being a band, being a DJ, being an automechanic or making bagels. If you're just going through the motions--whether that is for the purpose of trying to "please the audience" and make a quick buck, or playing songs just because you personally happen to like them--going through the motions is still just that and you'll probably get the response you deserve.

 

For every band that is like Grant described that followed the trends simply to try and follow the money and failed, there's another who took a "{censored} the audience, we'll do what we like" attitude and failed as well. The successful bands and DJs are those that know how to package what they do properly and sell it to the audience accordingly. Put your heart and talent into your music--regardless of which song it is---and you'll stand a much better chance of making it work.

 

From a pure marketing standpoint, "niching" your product is going to lead to better success. You'll have a hard time standing out in the marketplace if you're just one-of-five party bands or Pan-Asian restaurants. Find a niche for yourself and exploit that. Do something different/better than the other guys. Put your own spin on it.

 

"Be All You Can Be"? Yes. Absolutely. But also be smart enough to realize that if "all you can be" is just-another-band-playing-their-personal-favorite-classic-rock-tunes. then you need to find ways to put your own spin on it.

 

Because, really, no one probably cares what sort of music you like or what's on your personal iPod. If you want to take people down that road, you have to give them I reason to travel it with you.

 

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea if every band looked at every song they play and asked themselves "why would anybody want to hear us play this song?" What is there about it that is special? Is there anything going on there beyond "I really like this song personally" or "it's got a good beat and you can dance to it"? If not, you might want to reconsider what's your reason for doing it.

[vanlatte]

 

For every band that is like Grant described that followed the trends simply to try and follow the money and failed, there's another who took a "{censored} the audience, we'll do what we like" attitude and failed as well.

 

 

At the risk of getting too much further off topic, everytime I have seen that type of attitude it has always been accompanied with a borderline delusional belief that "The People" are craving something different, and Destined To Fail Band #498 are the only ones that can deliver it.

 

Anyone else noticed this?

[BlueStrat]

 

At the risk of getting too much further off topic, everytime I have seen that type of attitude it has always been accompanied with a borderline delusional belief that "The People" are craving something different, and Destined To Fail Band #498 are the only ones that can deliver it. Anyone else noticed this?

 

 

Well, there are just so many variables involved that applying ''rules" is impossible. Location size, venues, demographics, quality of musicianship, band personality, presentation, the list goes on. My band plays almost nothing that has ever been popular, but we do well, we have a solid rep, and find that many of our gigs are more like concerts than bar gigs. It clearly wouldn't work for everybody, but we've managed to carve out a nice little niche in a market that is otherwise dominated by classic rock bands playing hits from the 60s, 70s and 80s and DJs. my next project will be another expedition into obscura-it will be an alt country/Americana/higher energy neo-folk thing. I think I can make it work, if for no other reason than people who know me know they won't be going to hear some slapped together minimally rehearsed crap.

[tim_7string]

People want quality and they want passion. These will mean different things for different people.

I have seen bands that really got into what they did, but they were barely passable musicians. I enjoyed their show anyway. That's a big part of what punk rock was all about after all. I have seen other bands with a great light show, but looked like they were doing their taxes onstage. The light show got people into the band anyway. Saw a band with a big, fat slob (yes, way fatter than me lol) dressed in a big 'onesy' like a baby and wondered why so many people packed the joint. Then he opened his mouth. What charisma! He had the crowd eating out of his hand. One of the best shows in a club I ever saw.

When you can combine several of these things, NOW ya got something!

[Vito Corleone]

 

At the risk of getting too much further off topic, everytime I have seen that type of attitude it has always been accompanied with a borderline delusional belief that "The People" are craving something different, and Destined To Fail Band #498 are the only ones that can deliver it. Anyone else noticed this?

 

 

That's certainly how I've always noticed things.

 

I would just add to that by emphasizing that the key is to find the that right balance between the two. If you're going to give people something different, you still have to give it to them in a manner they crave. And if you're going to give them something common, you need to do it in a manner that makes YOUR common product seem unique and worth spending time/money on.

[Vito Corleone]

I was listening to a story on NPR yesterday about the success that the Panda Express restaurants have been having. How it's been based on the expanding palettes of Americans over the last few years toward Asian and spicer foods and how they have taken great steps to fill a certain niche. They constantly work to refine, expand and improve their menu by making it different, but not too different. By knowing they can't continue to grow by just selling the same asian food in the same manner they did 15 years ago. By trying to make it as "quality" tasting as they can but keep it under a certain price point.

 

All interesting stuff that applies to selling music as well. You gotta know your audience and grow/change with them. You'll fail if you stay too generic. But you'll also fail if you become too introverted and shoot too far over their heads without giving them a way to connect to what you're doing.

[Lee Knight]

 

I was listening to a story on NPR yesterday about the success that the Panda Express restaurants have been having. How it's been based on the expanding palettes of Americans over the last few years toward Asian and spicer foods and how they have taken great steps to fill a certain niche. They constantly work to refine, expand and improve their menu by making it different, but not too different. By knowing they can't continue to grow by just selling the same asian food in the same manner they did 15 years ago. By trying to make it as "quality" tasting as they can but keep it under a certain price point. All interesting stuff that applies to selling music as well. You gotta know your audience and grow/change with them. You'll fail if you stay too generic. But you'll also fail if you become too introverted and shoot too far over their heads without giving them a way to connect to what you're doing.

 

 

 

I like that kind of thinking. Nice post.

[wheresgrant3]

This thread has taken a turn away from DJ's but that's okay. These are some interesting and thought provoking posts. If you really and truly believe in what you're doing, rather than just trying to do what it takes to be successful, the audience will pick up on that, too, and follow you, or you will attract an audience that likes what you do.......or not.....

 

Yeah... we got off track a bit but the point of looking toward a DJ's song selection as an indicator toward success is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Club DJ's (that are spinning and remixing, not celeb DJ's who are actually creating music) are there to build an atmosphere so people dance. That's not exactly aligned with our goals as a band. We're hired to entertain and engage the audience. I don't care if the audience is dancing or not.. I want them completely focused on our act. Again, I point back to my friend who's spent the last 4-5 years emulating our setlist and act without the same level of success. In his eyes, the results should be the same, because 'we play the same music' . Every band is different...every gig is different. Which is why comparing where DJ's would be if they played abstract music is not a good comparison to a live band performing music. The DJ is being hired to keep people dancing period.

 

I know the point you were trying to make (philosophizing aloud). I just think there's a danger in pointing to a model and deciding that's the direction to take without discovering your own path. In 10 years I don't think we ever looked at another band, setlist or entertainment act and decided what would worked for them would work for us. In fact, we just took a lot of chances and decided what would work for us... period. And, what worked for us wouldn't necessarily work for you or other bands.

[Vito Corleone]

I know the point you were trying to make (philosophizing aloud). I just think there's a danger in pointing to a model and deciding that's the direction to take without discovering your own path.

 

 

That's true, but I think the point the OP was trying to make was a much more simple one: simply to say that if DJs are smart enough to put the audience first, then bands should be as well.

 

And I think that, regardless of HOW they get there, the most successful bands ARE putting the audience first or, at the very least, not taking them for granted and making them a specific part of their game-plan.

[New Trail]

I think about the classic scene in the movie "The Committments"

(if anyone hasn't seen this movie, see it ASAP) where the direction of the band has been determined (soul band) and the members are being auditioned. The classic line was "What are your influences?" But maybe a direction could be made after the band is together based on what music the individuals like and will play with committment, rather than trying to fit pieces into an existing puzzle.

[Vito Corleone]

But maybe a direction could be made after the band is together based on what music the individuals like and will play with committment, rather than trying to fit pieces into an existing puzzle.

 

 

I've never been a big fan of the "band by committee" model, or the "let's just throw everything into a pot and see what comes up" model. The most successful bands I've played with have been the ones with set goals and strong leadership. Sure...you're going to make some adjustments to the model depending on the different members, their styles, their strengths and weaknesses etc. But I'm strong believer in having a very good idea and plan of what the end product will look like.

[New Trail]

 

I've never been a big fan of the "band by committee" model, or the "let's just throw everything into a pot and see what comes up" model. The most successful bands I've played with have been the ones with set goals and strong leadership. Sure...you're going to make some adjustments to the model depending on the different members, their styles, their strengths and weaknesses etc. But I'm strong believer in having a very good idea and plan of what the end product will look like.

 

 

I agree! It's just that it seems that I end up with bands that are that way. Rather than saying "Hey, Bob, do you want to start a classic rock/blues band" it's "Hey Bob, do you want to put a band together?" and THEN come up with songs that everyone is willing to play. Then you get into one guy wanting to play popular covers, one guy wanting to do originals and all that kind of crap. It's just that there aren't enough good mature musicians around here to put a band together based on a solid concept and THEN finding good players who will buy into that concept. So it's always a compromise, and NOT in a good way.

 

I was reading the article with Paul McCartney in the new Rolling Stone. He said that in The Beatles everyone had veto power, and basically they didn't do a song if one of them didn't like it. He mentioned the song "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" as a song that they almost didn't do. I remember reading that some of George Harrison's songs, particularly "All Things Must Pass", were presented to The Beatles, but rejected.

[Vito Corleone]

I was reading the article with Paul McCartney in the new Rolling Stone. He said that in The Beatles everyone had veto power, and basically they didn't do a song if one of them didn't like it. He mentioned the song "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" as a song that they almost didn't do. I remember reading that some of George Harrison's songs, particularly "All Things Must Pass", were presented to The Beatles, but rejected.

 

 

Lennon hated "Maxwell". But it seems the only songs that ever really got vetoed were George's, who had all that stuff lying around for his "All Things Must Pass" album. It doesn't seem there were a whole lot of Lennon or McCartney songs that got vetoed. Makes me wonder if George and Ringo would have really agreed with Paul that EVERYONE had veto power.

 

Most bands I've been in, yes--rarely is it a situation where people have NO say at all. If somebody--anybody--really really hates a song, it probably isn't going to be played. But, at the same time, it's almost always the case that SOME members have more 'veto power' than others, while the rest just go-along-to-get-along most of the time.

[JohnMCA72]

That's true, but I think the point the OP was trying to make was a much more simple one: simply to say that if DJs are smart enough to put the audience first, then bands should be as well. And I think that, regardless of HOW they get there, the most successful bands ARE putting the audience first or, at the very least, not taking them for granted and making them a specific part of their game-plan.

 

 

Agree 100%!

 

Something I'm always saying, to anybody who'll listen, is this: It's not about US (the musicians); it's not even about the MUSIC. It's all about THEM (the audience). The reason I have to say it so often is that so few people seem to get it!

[BlueStrat]

 

Agree 100%! Something I'm always saying, to anybody who'll listen, is this: It's not about US (the musicians); it's not even about the MUSIC. It's all about THEM (the audience). The reason I have to say it so often is that so few people seem to get it!

 

 

 

Well, that's good for you but I reject that notion. It's not "all about the audience". For me, it IS all about the music and whether it moves me, inspires me and represents me. If I don't at least like what I'm doing, I'm not going to do it. I hope the audience likes what I'm doing, but I already have one job that's a lot of drudgery. Having a second one that doesn't pay nearly as much is not for me. I could say "I'm going after the classic rock audience" or the "pop music audience" or the "country audience", but not all audiences are the same. If I decide to try something different, I'll never know if the audience likes it or not until I try it. I don't view my challenge as catering to an audience. I view it as bringing them around and getting them to accept and like what I like. I've gone into more than one classic rock club with my band and won them over. Sometimes it flops, but I'm okay with that. Not everyone is going to like it. YMMV. Just wanted to say that maybe more guys don't "get it" because they don't buy it in the first place. Not meant as a slam on you, just that some of us are motivated by different things than others, and one isn't better than another.

[tim_7string]

I feel the same way.

 

Of course, the audience is important. But I am not going to be a trained monkey doing anything and everything someone wants me to do. "Play some Skynyrd!" *plays Gimme Three Steps* "I want to dance to a slow song!" *plays Your Man* "Bend over for me, baby!" *starts to...* lol

 

I'm not a performing flea, but I'm also not a clueless idiot that thinks they are going to play whatever the hell they want and f*** what anyone else thinks about it. I'm pretty sure I'd not get hired back if I started off the night playing GODFLESH's "Like Rats" followed by Devo's "Jerking Back And Forth" (although, that would be completely AWESOME...for me ). That's the kind of music I love, but I also like and love a lot of stuff that WILL go over for the crowds I target. It's why we are in rotation in two bars and are continually playing new places all the time.

 

When I go see bands, I want to be entertained by what THEY do. It doesn't matter if each frontman isn't like David Lee Roth or frontwoman isn't like Lady GaGa, on a small-time level or a big one. Whatever that band does, that makes them special, that is worth seeing. If they don't give a f***, I'm not going to stick around very long. I'm also not going to stay very long if all they do is play what the crowd wants, sacrificing their own style just to get them to like them. Then that falls into desperation. Finding a good balance between it all is where real success lies.

[Vito Corleone]

My take on all this is everyone is correct--to a degree. What I don't agree with is the harsh defensive opinions many people seem to camp themselves in. If someone suggests that "the audience comes first" then someone invariably responds "I'm not a human jukebox". well...hookay. No one has suggested anyone need be a trained monkey in order to put the audience first.

 

You can please yourself AND please the audience Which I think is nearly every performing musician's ultimate goal. The trick is, of course---how to do that and find the right balance.

 

Most times I see these defensive positions as just that: musicians who are not that happy artistically will often claim that "what the audience wants is all that matters"; those who are struggingly with audience response will often claim "I'm only in it for the music". Rather than look for positions that defend ones particular situation, we should be looking for ways to improve what we're doing on all fronts.

 

And there are several ways to skin this cat: with my band, we went the commercial route, decided to master the "please the audience/make some money" end of things first, and now are continually working on ways to put as much "artistry" into our product as possible in ways that we find musically challenging and pleasing without detracting from the gains we've made in the other area. Hopefully---ideally---the end result will be a better product on all fronts. Work in progress, as always.

 

And, of course, bands could pursue that from the opposite direction, or any number of other approaches. My point here is: keep pursuing higher ground on all fronts--keep growing and keep moving forward. As long as you're doing that, it's hard to go wrong. The only real mistake is when you give up on some areas of what you're doing and instead just resort to making excuses for where things are lacking.

[tim_7string]

 

My take on all this is everyone is correct--to a degree. What I don't agree with is the harsh defensive opinions many people seem to camp themselves in. If someone suggests that "the audience comes first" then someone invariably responds "I'm not a human jukebox". well...hookay. No one has suggested anyone need be a trained monkey in order to put the audience first.

 

 

Nothing wrong with having a defined idea of what you like and what you don't. If it isn't your cup of tea, nothing wrong with that either. I prefer to use terms that specifically state what I'm all about. If you view it as defensive, well, I can't agree with that perception. You and others here aren't the people I'm talking about when I use the words "performing flea" either. It's a segment of narrow-minded people in this area I am referring to.

 

 

Most times I see these defensive positions as just that: musicians who are not that happy artistically will often claim that "what the audience wants is all that matters"; those who are struggingly with audience response will often claim "I'm only in it for the music". Rather than look for positions that defend ones particular situation, we should be looking for ways to improve what we're doing on all fronts.

Again with the defensive talk. How about people that do both: bitch about things *and* look for solutions?

 

 

And there are several ways to skin this cat: with my band, we went the commercial route, decided to master the "please the audience/make some money" end of things first, and now are continually working on ways to put as much "artistry" into our product as possible in ways that we find musically challenging and pleasing without detracting from the gains we've made in the other area. Hopefully---ideally---the end result will be a better product on all fronts. Work in progress, as always.

Yep, there are many ways to succeed, not just the path you chose.

 

 

And, of course, bands could pursue that from the opposite direction, or any number of other approaches. My point here is: keep pursuing higher ground on all fronts--keep growing and keep moving forward. As long as you're doing that, it's hard to go wrong. The only real mistake is when you give up on some areas of what you're doing and instead just resort to making excuses for where things are lacking.

I am doing that, have been doing that, and have always done that. I don't think any of us here are in the habit of "making excuses" and leaving it at that. I haven't seen much of it anyway...

[JohnMCA72]

 

... Whatever that band does, that makes them special, that is worth seeing. If they don't give a f***, I'm not going to stick around very long. ...

 

That's the point I was trying to make. It's not so much what you do, it's that you honestly care about doing it. Love the audience, care about them, draw them in & make them feel a part of what's going on. People can smell it when you don't care & just go through the motions. It doesn't matter whether it's original music or covers, how technical it is or isn't, or the genre.

[tim_7string]

That's the point I was trying to make. It's not so much what you do, it's that you honestly care about doing it. Love the audience, care about them, draw them in & make them feel a part of what's going on. People can smell it when you don't care & just go through the motions. It doesn't matter whether it's original music or covers, how technical it is or isn't, or the genre.

 

Exactly. That's why I don't keep people in my band that don't love what they do. I had a bassist that read from a big three-ring binder book on every single song. That showed me that he didn't care enough about the band to learn the songs. Gone. Then I had a bassist that started out getting the songs down, but eventually stopped practicing and played like crap most of the time, forgetting song parts, singing off-key, basically just showing up and (kinda) playing. Ugh. Again, she got the boot due to lack of commitment to our group. Finally, I just fired the guitarist-turned-bassist because he started to just go through the motions. I realize upon reflection that he was doing that when we are a four-piece, but it was less noticeable then. In a trio, it was very obvious. The final straw was that he had three weeks to get three songs down. He claimed "they weren't hard," yet messed them up on the gig. Both nights. Then decided to show up late to tear down at the bar and not show up at all to unload at my place, most likely because he was making 3% less than he would have been if it was a completely even money split. Three percent. Oh well. Gone.

 

His replacement has a lot of energy, a lot of talent and will be the best bassist/vocalist we've ever had. He has a lot of enthusiasm and loves to put on a great show for the audience. I regret nothing.

[tlbonehead]

Agree 100%! Something I'm always saying, to anybody who'll listen, is this: It's not about US (the musicians); it's not even about the MUSIC. It's all about THEM (the audience). The reason I have to say it so often is that so few people seem to get it!

I disagree with your statement for the most part. You can certainly have good success using that idea. You can also have amazing success by doing just the opposite and finding your following.