Members MusicalSchizo Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 Thritto! Quaditto...(?) Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I stand corrected, Schizo! You Austin guys are brutal when it comes to burying those pointy-toed cowboy boots in someone's ass! My apologies sir. Sincerely, signed Whoever the {censored} I am THIS week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 Never argue with someone who gigs with a Spongebob Squarepants shower curtain for a backdrop! (and ROCKS it!!) I firmly believe you and Mr.Knobs to be eminently knowledgeable and accomplished fellows. But I am going to find out if both of you guys are really up on your local working country music scene, with one question: Who is the best working pedal steel player in Austin? (playing the "Austin connection" card). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 Never argue with someone who gigs with a Spongebob Squarepants shower curtain for a backdrop! (and ROCKS it!!) Hey, I know I'm crazy...but I appreciate the positive parenthetical comment. I firmly believe you and Mr.Knobs to be eminently knowledgeable and accomplished fellows. But I am going to find out if both of you guys are really up on your local working country music scene, with one question: Who is the best working pedal steel player in Austin? (playing the "Austin connection" card). There are so many good steel players here - and really all over the area...I guess Lloyd Maines is one of the most famous. I'll admit that I don't know that many working local guys by name - being in radio and having an active family and musical life outside of that (hence the SpongeBob SquarePants shower curtain and the pop-rock covers), I really mostly only get to actually meet the artists/singers when they come to the station...save for the occasional guitarist or keyboardist who comes out to accompany them. I see great players all the time though. I'll happily concede my ignorance on that point. Who is it? Maybe Mr. Knobs knows... I still think it's fun to make fun of the things we love. I grew up with three brothers, and our M.O. has always been to make fun of each other. It's our way of expressing love. Sorry to kind of be a dick in my post. It reads more harshly than I intended it (which often is the case when I'm responding to something that annoys me). Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 Hear ya, Schizo. I had been holed up in the monastery all week (soundtrack: Gregorian chants with a faint but authentic twang) and it made me somewhat grumpy and curmudgeonly. I played a fun gig Sat. night, had a few drinks, and woke up feeling better. "Best" (steel player) is admittedly too strong a statement, esp. for a music mecca like Austin. But this guy: http://pedalsteeltrax.com/ has to be competitive. The link is a site where he records steel tracks for whoever wants to pay for them. He also has a boutique guitar strap-making business, with several pretty high-profile clients. James plays in Jim Stringer's AM band (there's only one band in Austin and everyone plays in it ) that hosts the Monthly Jim's Country Jam, moving this month to the Scholz Beer Garden May 20. James is AMAZING, I was in a house band with him over 10 years ago. He's got the old-school sound plus alot more- one of the few steel players who plays rhythm. I found an old recording of our band playing Steel Guitar Rag, hope to put it up on Soundclick in the near future. I hope nobody minds me plugging my friend. I guess Knobs is AWOL. I'm still waiting for him to send me a jar of horned toad secretions. Good stuff, although even better licked directly off the toad, from what I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'm going to have to check James out - being the "MusicalSchizo" he sounds like his broad approach to steel guitar is right up my alley...thanks for the link and stuff. I know Mr. Knobs has varying levels of activity on here, so I'm sure he'll be back at some point. He can be a busy guy, from what I understand. I still haven't met him in the real world even though we're both here in Austin. Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted May 14, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'm going to have to check James out - being the "MusicalSchizo" he sounds like his broad approach to steel guitar is right up my alley...thanks for the link and stuff. I know Mr. Knobs has varying levels of activity on here, so I'm sure he'll be back at some point. He can be a busy guy, from what I understand. I still haven't met him in the real world even though we're both here in Austin. Brian V. I threw a house party last night at the knobs ranch with a twist. Everyone here took turns performing at my Second Life venue. Basically, everyone played a set here at the house and it was simulcast up to SL where there was a large crowd attending. Made some money, had a good time, drank too much. The last musician walked out my front door at about 3:30 AM. I've just started cleaning up the mess and wrapping up all the cables. Of course I counted the microphones and put them back in the locker last night. The standout from last night's show was Lisa Marshall. She took a sell out crowd (initially gathered by SL's most popular musician, Donn Devore) and not only held it with a line waiting to get in, she electrified it. She has a bright future on the world stage. Sometimes Austin is like that, you have to go somewhere else to be successful. Hell, there ain't no "sometimes" to it. What was the question? Steel guitarists? Best? If you like corporate country, I'd go with Mike Daily of George Strait's outfit, probably because I did sound for them for a while. I'm not sure where Mike lives these days, so he might not meet the criteria. My personal, AUSTINY favorite, is Cindy Cashdollar who has a unique style that I find more interesting. She's played with a lot of folks here, mostly Asleep at the Wheel. Having said all that, this is Austin with our 10,000 bands (according to the local paper) so there's probably a dozen hot steel players here I've never heard of let alone heard. I'm not a country music fan, though I like some country songs. I was anti-country (and still don't like drippy country) but my years as a tour sound man for various country artists educated me a bit that country is a big genre, and there are a hell of a lot of amazing players doing country. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted May 15, 2012 Members Share Posted May 15, 2012 These days, when I produce a "modern country" song I always reach for a fiddle player, which might be an Austin thing like I said. If you're gonna play in Texas, ya gotta have a...." Oh, never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted May 16, 2012 Members Share Posted May 16, 2012 Well, sure he did. After all, that's what he was hired for. It was still a thriving business back then, but what many of us don't realize in today's music business is that back then it was the slickly produced mega-sellers that provided the development money to take chances on guys like Waylon (not considered a great singer back then) and Charlie Pride and lots of other more boundary-pushing types. Today, development deals are a thing of the past- the success of a Lady Gaga or Rhianna just leads to finding another Gaga or Rhianna. But guys like Chet used money from sales of people like George Jones and Tammy Wynette to finance Waylon and Willie, Jerry Reed (also not considered a great singer) and John Hartford. That would never happen today. Willie and Waylon, both great songwriters early on, were slow in developing to superstar status. Chet helped get them out there. Chet even helped produce Waylon's "Wanted: The Outlaws" album. Chet created the Countrypolitan/Nashville sound. His job was to slick up and commercialize country music, and he was an overachiever. Wanted! The Outlaws was a compilation, and wasn't a "Waylon album," per se. His tracks on it were from albums he'd already put out, which weren't produced by C.A., afaik. Chet was probably the executive producer of the compilation, if anything, as it was on RCA. It was a Jessie Coulter (both solo and with Waylon), Willie, and Tompall Glaser record, as much as a Waylon one, but it wasn't recorded at the same sessions, as a cohesive "album," to start with. Waylon recorded some with Chet early on, and there's a famous story of Chet telling Waylon he couldn't use his own band, as that just wasn't the way Nashville did things. Waylon's big success in the "outlaw" era, years later, of course featured the Waylors. Individual bands have character, though, and that goes against everything the Nashville machine stands for. Best to have everything slick and hemogenized. C.A. was indeed the man most responsible for turning country music into a soulless commercial venture. There was backlash long before the "outlaw" days, though...the whole Bakersfield thing, for example. There's the famous CA bit where when asked what the "Nashville sound" was, he would rattle the change in his pockets. That pretty much says it all. Pretty much everybody respects CA's guitar playing, but his production style is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted May 16, 2012 Members Share Posted May 16, 2012 Chet created the Countrypolitan/Nashville sound. His job was to slick up and commercialize country music, and he was an overachiever. Wanted! The Outlaws was a compilation, and wasn't a "Waylon album," per se. His tracks on it were from albums he'd already put out, which weren't produced by C.A., afaik. Chet was probably the executive producer of the compilation, if anything, as it was on RCA. It was a Jessie Coulter (both solo and with Waylon), Willie, and Tompall Glaser record, as much as a Waylon one, but it wasn't recorded at the same sessions, as a cohesive "album," to start with. Waylon recorded some with Chet early on, and there's a famous story of Chet telling Waylon he couldn't use his own band, as that just wasn't the way Nashville did things. Waylon's big success in the "outlaw" era, years later, of course featured the Waylors. Individual bands have character, though, and that goes against everything the Nashville machine stands for. Best to have everything slick and hemogenized. C.A. was indeed the man most responsible for turning country music into a soulless commercial venture. There was backlash long before the "outlaw" days, though...the whole Bakersfield thing, for example. There's the famous CA bit where when asked what the "Nashville sound" was, he would rattle the change in his pockets. That pretty much says it all. Pretty much everybody respects CA's guitar playing, but his production style is a different story. Yeah, I figured those observations had a little more teeth than I could put on 'em, coming from some pretty damn solid fans and players of the music. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Chet created the Countrypolitan/Nashville sound. His job was to slick up and commercialize country music, and he was an overachiever. Wanted! The Outlaws was a compilation, and wasn't a "Waylon album," per se. His tracks on it were from albums he'd already put out, which weren't produced by C.A., afaik. Chet was probably the executive producer of the compilation, if anything, as it was on RCA. It was a Jessie Coulter (both solo and with Waylon), Willie, and Tompall Glaser record, as much as a Waylon one, but it wasn't recorded at the same sessions, as a cohesive "album," to start with. Waylon recorded some with Chet early on, and there's a famous story of Chet telling Waylon he couldn't use his own band, as that just wasn't the way Nashville did things. Waylon's big success in the "outlaw" era, years later, of course featured the Waylors. Individual bands have character, though, and that goes against everything the Nashville machine stands for. Best to have everything slick and hemogenized. C.A. was indeed the man most responsible for turning country music into a soulless commercial venture. There was backlash long before the "outlaw" days, though...the whole Bakersfield thing, for example. There's the famous CA bit where when asked what the "Nashville sound" was, he would rattle the change in his pockets. That pretty much says it all. Pretty much everybody respects CA's guitar playing, but his production style is a different story. Everyone is entitled to their own version of history, I suppose. But for being such a promoter of the soulless commercial venture, you can't ignore him signing these guys an you can't ignore his many live performanaces with them, many of which are on Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Everyone is entitled to their own version of history, I suppose. But for being such a promoter of the soulless commercial venture, you can't ignore him signing these guys an you can't ignore his many live performanaces with them, many of which are on Youtube. well, he WAS the head of the record company. Sure, they may have played with him and even respected him as a guitarist. Doesn't mean they had to like the commercial BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 I acknowledged already he produced cheese to make the record company money. It was his job. However, that cheese financed the marketing of guys like Willie and Waylon and lots of other lesser known acts he signed and helped develop, just as mega pop acts helped finance young rock bands that took awhile to grow a following. I'm sure they didn't like the cheese, but it helped them get where they got, and I think Chet deserves some credit for that. I also think the "outlaw" disdain for Chet is blown way out of proportion. People seem to forget that's how new acts were signed to three record development deals back then, something that is unheard of today. For what it's worth, guys like Merle Haggard and Johnny Cash put out their fair share of overproduced slick cheese in their day (Cash's Sunday Morning Coming Down , for example, makes me want to puke evey time I hear it), and they are regarded as outlaw icons today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Best to have everything slick and hemogenized. As in, like an auditory hemorrhage? I've played in several band that fit that description. I myself, like the "countrypolitan" sound. Although I more often associated it with Billy Sherrill. FWIW, Charlie Rich is one of my heroes, along with Ray Price. Maybe they themselves wanted a stripped-down, rawer sound, but their hits are still classics. I suppose they were contemporaries with Jimmy Webb and wanted to emulate his sound, seeing his success with Glen Campbell and others. Or vice versa. Sorry, I'm not being much help here. But I really doubt that Willie, Waylon or anyone else listed had any animosity towards CA. I always wondered just WHEN they retired the Nashville Celestial Choir sound, that used to be on "He Stopped Loving Her Today" and everything else. Maybe the choir members just got too old, and retired. Maybe they are all shacked up in a Nashville nursing home, along with the animated dancing pig chorus line from Hee Haw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Even rock had its slick evolved to the max era. I grew up and watch things go from stones to groups like the association, grass roots , chicago, blood sweat and tears and three dog night types. A ton of people hated that stuff and were into the hendrix , cream, blue cheer etc heavier groups. I think why some of the guys hated that slick rock so much was that it was totally out of their ability level. If you could do that stuff it was a great money maker for bands. With country its just a mirror image rinse wash repeat. The way I see it ,, be the band that you are and find your crowd and play for them. At the end of the day doing what you want to do and doing it well is more important than the money from the local yokal cover band scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 I acknowledged already he produced cheese to make the record company money. It was his job. However, that cheese financed the marketing of guys like Willie and Waylon and lots of other lesser known acts he signed and helped develop, just as mega pop acts helped finance young rock bands that took awhile to grow a following. I'm sure they didn't like the cheese, but it helped them get where they got, and I think Chet deserves some credit for that. I also think the "outlaw" disdain for Chet is blown way out of proportion. People seem to forget that's how new acts were signed to three record development deals back then, something that is unheard of today. For what it's worth, guys like Merle Haggard and Johnny Cash put out their fair share of overproduced slick cheese in their day (Cash's Sunday Morning Coming Down , for example, makes me want to puke evey time I hear it), and they are regarded as outlaw icons today. Hard to say what Chet's take on it was. MAYBE he was just producing the chese for the cash and doing it so he could finance the 'real' stuff? MAYBE he loved the cheese and let some of the raw stuff slip in even though he couldn't stand it because they weren't good enough "players" in his view? I've certainly seen plenty of musicians on BOTH end of that spectrum in my time. I have no idea on which end Chet really lived. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Everyone is entitled to their own version of history, I suppose. But for being such a promoter of the soulless commercial venture, you can't ignore him signing these guys an you can't ignore his many live performanaces with them, many of which are on Youtube. I'm sure that Waylon/Willie etc were just being good slaves on the plantation . Or at least didn't hold grudges (although probably never had any), and as mentioned earlier, could separate the person and the person's talent from the business MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have no idea on which end Chet really lived. Do you? No, but I do know he quit at the height of his tenure there. Here's a pretty good interview with Don McClean about Chet. http://ezinearticles.com/?Working-With-Chet-Atkins---An-Interview-With-Don-McLean&id=2675075 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JailTime Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 For what it's worth, guys like Merle Haggard and Johnny Cash put out their fair share of overproduced slick cheese in their day (Cash's Sunday Morning Coming Down , for example, makes me want to puke evey time I hear it), and they are regarded as outlaw icons today. I like that version, but Kristofferson's original version kills. I love all this forum talk about the classics - I've always admired the songwriters the most - like Billy Joe Shaver, who basically wrote Waylon's entire Honky Tonk Heroes Album - which may be the best country album ever, IMO. CA, I'm sure was particular to the players, and I think that does carry on to today. If you're a great picker, you'll might get a shot, RE: Vince Gill. I said might - don't you know there's 1462 guitar pickers in Nashveille? And each one of those pickers can pick more notes than the number of ants on a Tennessee ant hill. Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 Everyone is entitled to their own version of history, I suppose. But for being such a promoter of the soulless commercial venture, you can't ignore him signing these guys an you can't ignore his many live performanaces with them, many of which are on Youtube. I don't know of any of them having "animosity" toward him, as someone said, but my "version of history" is the one where Waylon and Willie were much more successful in the 70's, after getting away from the slick production style, and using the Waylors and the Family Band, respectively, in the studio. Sure, those guys did that stuff in the 60's, As for Waylon's material on "Wanted!," I haven't gone through all the Waylon tracks to find out all the songs' orgins, but "Honky Tonk Heroes," originally from the album of the same name, was produced by Waylon and Tompall Glaser. I'm not sure what sessions, if any, CA produced from that album. Just because somebody's listed as a "producer" on a compilation album doesn't mean they were at a single session for it. I definitely don't hear his production style on that material. Johnny Cash wasn't part of the "outlaw" movement, really, though he did associate with those guys, somewhat. He'd been well established for about a decade and a half by the time that stuff really hit. Somebody included Merle, earlier, too, but he was a Bakersfield guy. Both of them were loosely associated with it after the fact, but using their records as examples doesn't really jive, especially the ones made in the 60's and before. Waylon and Willie both did the "Nashville thing" in the 60's, and were more or less floundering until going their own way. IOW, of course it's not hard to find examples of them doing that stuff, if you dig deep enough, but are the clean cut Willie or Waylon of the 60's the first image that comes to anybody's mind when their names come up? Chet may have signed them to start with, but getting away from that is what made them "what they are." Waylon fought to use his own band and get away from that sound and philosophy of making records. It's extremely disingenous to credit Chet Atkins with the outlaw movement in any way, aside from inspiring them to do things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deezle250 Posted May 17, 2012 Members Share Posted May 17, 2012 How many have heard 5 pound bass? Me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Country music is in good hands as long as we have some real-deal, country-to-the-bone twangulatin' troubadours like Darius Rucker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Country music is in good hands as long as we have some real-deal, country-to-the-bone twangulatin' troubadours like Darius Rucker! I'm not a big country fan and have never really been, and I'll tell you why: I love the old school stuff---Hank and Merle and Johnny etc etc. But country music, like any other genre, can't be stuck in the past. Nobody is going to make any money sounding like Hank Williams these days. And too much of country's present and future is somebody ELSES past. Country has always been more than willing to sound like 20-year-old rock. A lot of 70s and 80s country sounded more like 50s rock n roll than 'country', and a lot of modern country is just bands trying to sound like the Eagles or Skynyrd with a bit more twang and steel guitar. Well, I already lived and loved that musical period of my life, I don't need "new" country bands sounding like my old rock classics. Obviously, that's just me and modern country does just fine without MY input. But I'm always wishing that country could find somewhere "new" and "modern" to go that didn't remind so much of a old Fleetwood Mac album..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 I'm not a big country fan and have never really been, and I'll tell you why: I love the old school stuff---Hank and Merle and Johnny etc etc. But country music, like any other genre, can't be stuck in the past. Nobody is going to make any money sounding like Hank Williams these days. And too much of country's present and future is somebody ELSES past. Country has always been more than willing to sound like 20-year-old rock. A lot of 70s and 80s country sounded more like 50s rock n roll than 'country', and a lot of modern country is just bands trying to sound like the Eagles or Skynyrd with a bit more twang and steel guitar. Well, I already lived and loved that musical period of my life, I don't need "new" country bands sounding like my old rock classics. Obviously, that's just me and modern country does just fine without MY input. But I'm always wishing that country could find somewhere "new" and "modern" to go that didn't remind so much of a old Fleetwood Mac album..... I get a kick out of the guys who profess to hate modern country ,, but try to cover their ass by saying they love old school,, but wouldnt be caught dead playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Piano Whore Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 Well I dunno, Tim..I might cut David some slack if his corporate/wedding band doesn't cover "Your Cheating Heart". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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