Members summit111 Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 My Brothers, I previously posted about a difficult club owner reneging on our agreed upon fee, threatening to cancel future gigs if we didn't play for his suggested fee, etc. We were a hit at his marina, plenty of fans showed up, he booked us for two future dates while we were playing the first one. We were booked for this Sunday, from 1-5 in the afternoon. His Facebook event had us listed also. Several of us received hurried phone calls late yesterday evening from him with this BS story. "Guys, I have to cancel you for tomorrow. Some guy listening to the band today will pay their fee totally if I book them tomorrow in your place. I can't give up that kind of money so you're not playing tomorrow. I'll see you guys on the date we booked in August!" First, no contract or down payment on our part. Second, I don't totally believe his story. Thirdly, how can one band do that to another? Fourth, he thinks we'll actually play for him in August! I think he talked the Saturday band into playing for some sort of cheaper fee, and it may have been subsidized by one of his customers, putting us out. He's gonna get a surprise in August we don't show up. Turnaround is fair play. We talked to many local bands last night and today, and they all confirmed what a sleaze ball he is. None of them will play there because of his shenanigans. Our first time went great, and we let our guard down. Shame on us! And, I'm gonna have a little discussion with the band that took our place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 Sorry about the gig. At least you didn't play the gig and then get stiffed.... Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 That really blows. I would take the higher, more professional ground and just cancel the gig in August as a result of his cancelling your gig with practically NO advance notice. I wouldn't play the August gig either. What is to stop him from doing the same thing again? Like you said, shame on you (if only from the phrase "fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice, shame on me"), but at least you guys know what to expect from these guys now. Hey, I've been fooled twice before too. I'm a pretty easy-going guy and usually optimistic when dealing with people, which has bitten me in the ass a couple of times over the years. I would definitely write these guys off if I were in your shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 This is a great opportunity to take the high road and be professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Roberts Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 I wouldn't be mad at the other band - they may have no idea what he's doing. He may have told them you wanted them to do it, ya' know? If anything, you might warn them of what he did to you, just to make them aware that it could happen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted June 3, 2012 Members Share Posted June 3, 2012 This is a great opportunity to take the high road and be professional. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KeysBear Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 If we only worked for non-sleazeball owners the calendar would be rather empty. Don't burn bridges, even with slime. Don't pull a no show. Replace the booking and then go to him with a "gee we're sorry but we can't pass up the chance to make more money I'm sure you'll understand." If you can't replace the gig play it and who knows, it might be as big a hit feel good evening as the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'd ask him if he still wants you to reserve the next date. If he does, you'll need a deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree with the folks who say "take the high road". I'd let him know how cancelling you at the last minute took money out of your pocket. It would be akin to you cancelling on him at the last minute to play a more profitable gig and leaving him in a lurch...not cool. As a business owner, he should know this and the fact he apparently doesn't would preclude me from desiring to do business with him again. If his is apologetic and insistent about doing a future date, I'd make sure he reimbursed you the money lost from the cancelled gig and provided a deposit on an increased fee (due to the BS factor) on the next gig. He is likely not going to do that and, if I were you, I would then calmly and professionally give notice of my cancellation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree with the folks who say "take the high road". I'd let him know how cancelling you at the last minute took money out of your pocket. It would be akin to you cancelling on him at the last minute to play a more profitable gig and leaving him in a lurch...not cool. As a business owner, he should know this and the fact he apparently doesn't would preclude me from desiring to do business with him again. If his is apologetic and insistent about doing a future date, I'd make sure he reimbursed you the money lost from the cancelled gig and provided a deposit on an increased fee (due to the BS factor) on the next gig. He is likely not going to do that and, if I were you, I would then calmly and professionally give notice of my cancellation. Agreed. Good advice flanc and KeysBear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members summit111 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 My Brothers, After taking time to calm down and read all the great responses from you, I will take the high road. We visited with other musicians yesterday and today, and the majority of them get a 50% NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOIT from nightclubs. If he calls for us to play again, we'll insist on 100% deposit and a fixed amount per hour past the contracted time. No more pass the hat BS. Note: This is a small time player that owns a Marina in Swamp People country, but he is the only one in the area to ever pull this. The New Orleans venues never do this as it would spread quickly and would never be able to hire any musicians. We had to cancel our sound contractor, and he graciously understood. Several of us play in other bands and could have been booked with them, but that's lost cheese. For me, it's not about the money, but lack of respect. I for one, play for the love of music, and it's disheartening for a club owner to have such a lack of integrity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree with the folks who say "take the high road". I'd let him know how cancelling you at the last minute took money out of your pocket. It would be akin to you cancelling on him at the last minute to play a more profitable gig and leaving him in a lurch...not cool. As a business owner, he should know this and the fact he apparently doesn't would preclude me from desiring to do business with him again. If his is apologetic and insistent about doing a future date, I'd make sure he reimbursed you the money lost from the cancelled gig and provided a deposit on an increased fee (due to the BS factor) on the next gig. He is likely not going to do that and, if I were you, I would then calmly and professionally give notice of my cancellation. Plus + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 My first instinct says to wait untile the day before the august gig and cancel on him........then I realize it just wouldnt look good on you all. I would inform him for the august date there is a non refundable deposit of some sorts to cover your expenses if he cancels.....some people just dont think this stuff isnt any big deal, and need reminded why it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 For me, it's not about the money, but lack of respect. I for one, play for the love of music, and it's disheartening for a club owner to have such a lack of integrity! I very succinctly told you to take the high road, but I should also mention that it's VERY CLEAR that he COMPLETELY SCREWED you guys over. That's bull{censored} no one should have to put up with, whether or not his story is true or not. Even if his story is true, he could have given you guys a good chunk of your agreed upon fee (say, 50%) and STILL come out ahead, since he didn't have any entertainment costs if his guest was covering the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KeysBear Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 For me, it's not about the money, but lack of respect. I for one, play for the love of music, and it's disheartening for a club owner to have such a lack of integrity! I'm not really warming up to this statement at all. It is about the money, if not for you then for your guys. I play for the love of music at home. I haul a car full of gear around for pay and maybe if I'm lucky it will be a wonderful experience that feeds my artistic obsession and massages my ego. Many club owners, bar managers, sometimes even barmaids will cheat you if you let them. They didn't get into the bar business because they want the world to be a better place so don't fret over their lack of integrity, it just goes with the territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ski219 Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 Screw the high road. Screw asking for a deposit. Just don't show up in August and write the asshole off. WIll it really effect your booking with other venues - I doubt it. Will it really hurt sleaze ball club owner - no, so he won't have a band on one date. Is he likely to sign a contract and give you 50% up front - not in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 Screw the high road. Screw asking for a deposit. Just don't show up in August and write the asshole off. WIll it really effect your booking with other venues - I doubt it. Will it really hurt sleaze ball club owner - no, so he won't have a band on one date. Is he likely to sign a contract and give you 50% up front - not in a million years. Pretty true. While I advocate taking the high road when it comes to being the type of person you want to be, the business reality is this guy is a dick and doesn't give a {censored} so why should you. If he's the type of guy to screw you, he's not going to be the type of guy who signs contracts and give deposits. And, to be brutally honest, if he could so easily toss you aside for another band, I doubt he loves your band so much that he'll sign anything and pay whatever to make sure you come back again. Be done with him and move on. Handle it however it makes you feel best about yourself, but the business end of it is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I think it is pretty simple...not any road of any kind....just doing business. Call, no email, and cancel your date. Don't say why unless he asks. When/if he asks why, just simply tell him that your band had a meeting and that while you appreciate the opportunity you choose not to play at that venue because it is not a good fit. Be a politician and tow the line: don't let him pull you into a pissing contest. It is not a good fit end of story. Do it as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm with Flanc on this one. Don't be a dick. Just spell it out that he cost you money that needs to be made up somehow, along with a deposit or other guarantee on the next gig. otherwise let him know you can't take those types of risks and will have to cancel any remaining dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minn12 Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 In this situation, when being cancelled last minute, some bands will immediately ask for a replacement (additional) date to make up for the cancelled date. That way you don't lose anything. However, given his track record, you may have to make a decision whether it is worth doing any future dates for this guy. I agree he is likely not going to pay any deposits on future dates. If he won't, then you have to decide if a few dates a year and the likelihood of future cancellations and problems from this guy is worth your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jealousblues Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 Just cancel the other show.If you no show it just makes you look like an ahole...especially if people who like you see you are playing there and turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davebols Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 i agree! you have to just talk to people and dig where they are and know if they are cool or just thinking about themselfs. sorry about the spelling, but just talking to someone is usally the best to know were ya stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 Don't no show.. just do like has been said.. call the club, and calmly cancel the date. If they ask why, simply tell them that this last incident cost you money, and that you can't afford to run your business that way. Wish him the best, be friendly, but make sure he understands that your band isn't willing to do business that way, and cancel the dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urca Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 My Brothers, After taking time to calm down and read all the great responses from you, I will take the high road. We visited with other musicians yesterday and today, and the majority of them get a 50% NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOIT from nightclubs. If he calls for us to play again, we'll insist on 100% deposit and a fixed amount per hour past the contracted time. No more pass the hat BS.Note: This is a small time player that owns a Marina in Swamp People country, but he is the only one in the area to ever pull this. The New Orleans venues never do this as it would spread quickly and would never be able to hire any musicians. We had to cancel our sound contractor, and he graciously understood. Several of us play in other bands and could have been booked with them, but that's lost cheese.For me, it's not about the money, but lack of respect. I for one, play for the love of music, and it's disheartening for a club owner to have such a lack of integrity! Been gigging much? Get used to it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted June 4, 2012 Members Share Posted June 4, 2012 I think it would be a lot cooler to go ahead and keep the date, but modify the band's presentation. Dress up like Slipknot, then put on a show that falls somewhere between GWAR and GG Allin, filled with profanity, racial epithets and hate-metal, with a healthy dose of raw meat, pig blood, music stands, and simulated sex acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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