Talk to me about lighting

[BATCAT]

As I mentioned in the other thread I started, I'm planning to get a couple of LED PAR cans to add light from the stage floor.

 

The last time I dealt with lighting was like ten years ago, before, I think, a lot of the stuff that is pretty common now either didn't exist or wasn't common/affordable.

 

What options exist for music-controlled lights? For footswitch-controlled, of whatever? What can be adjusted using the PAR cans themselves, without a controller? I'm seriously clueless and need to have this explained to me like I'm 8 years old.

[modulusman]

My band has 8 of these. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-dj-64-bl-led-pro We use them with no controller. You can set them with controls on the lights to fade in/out with different colors, change color along with the music, static one color mode etc.

[Chicken Monkey]

Our pedal steel player brings in the LEDs, so I can't tell you much about them. I can tell you this--we've got to get them on a different circuit from the PA or they buzz like crazy.

[Mutha Goose]

I would suggest going to the lighting forum here. There is a wonderful primer written up that will take you through much of the basics. After reading that, you should have enough information to ask some more pointed and less open-ended questions (which are a lot easier to answer).

 

Good luck.

[jeff42]

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Chauvet-COLORstrip-DMX-LED-Linear-Wash-Light-104652433-i1380888.gc

 

I just grabbed one of these last weekend for my trio. testing it this weekend.

[BATCAT]

I would suggest going to the lighting forum here. There is a wonderful primer written up that will take you through much of the basics. After reading that, you should have enough information to ask some more pointed and less open-ended questions (which are a lot easier to answer). Good luck.

 

There's a lighting forum?

 

I'll go read that, thanks.

[kmart]

 

I would suggest going to the lighting forum here. There is a wonderful primer written up that will take you through much of the basics. After reading that, you should have enough information to ask some more pointed and less open-ended questions (which are a lot easier to answer). Good luck.

 

 

Ditto to this.

 

 

Something basic to understand before you purchase ANY fixtures or controllers:

 

Lights are generally going to be run by a protocol known as DMX.

Depending on the functionality of your lights (can it change different colors/how many, fade or chase from one to the next, MOVE (especially move) etc.), they will 'operate' by receiving information to do so via a certain number of DMX channels. If your light 'needs' (or uses) 6 channels, but your controller is only capable of controlling or sending information to 3 DMXchannels, for instance...

That ain't enough.

 

So as tempting as it may be to start out simple and easy with a low-functionality controller, for instance, it's real easy to outgrow the simplest/cheapest ones.

 

I bought 2 ministrip lights and the 'made for them' foot controller, only to find that I could control on/off easily, but that was about it; I couldn't change from one color to another and then back, for example...just forward through all 21 pre-set colors and patterns in order (no backing up).

$60 wasted, and it's never been used once.

 

But the strip lights are now part of our fully automated show, and up light my drums/me quite awesomely.

[tlbonehead]

Our pedal steel player brings in the LEDs, so I can't tell you much about them. I can tell you this--we've got to get them on a different circuit from the PA or they buzz like crazy.

Actually, I've found just the opposite, at least compared to having dimmer packs on the same circuit as the sound. I always split lights and sound when it is possible.

[tlbonehead]

I got a pair of these to add to our stuff when MF was having their mistake? Chauvet sale. $209 per set. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/chauvet-4bar-tri

[Vito Corleone]

 

Actually, I've found just the opposite, at least compared to having dimmer packs on the same circuit as the sound. I always split lights and sound when it is possible.

 

 

I've never found a buzzing problem with the LEDs either. Almost makes me wonder if there wouldn't be something wrong with them if they are causing a buzz?

 

We usually split our power Left side/Right side. One mains stack, one light tree and half the backline on one circuit and the other side on another. And a third circuit for the back lighting truss which is 6 standard Par 56 cans and dimmers.

[Alan Roberts]

Go down to SODO and talk to the guys at Hollywood Lighting.

[Chaff67]

 

Ditto to this. Something basic to understand before you purchase ANY fixtures or controllers: Lights are generally going to be run by a protocol known as DMX. Depending on the functionality of your lights (can it change different colors/how many, fade or chase from one to the next, MOVE (especially move) etc.), they will 'operate' by receiving information to do so via a certain number of DMX channels. If your light 'needs' (or uses) 6 channels, but your controller is only capable of controlling or sending information to 3 DMXchannels, for instance... That ain't enough. So as tempting as it may be to start out simple and easy with a low-functionality controller, for instance, it's real easy to outgrow the simplest/cheapest ones. I bought 2 ministrip lights and the 'made for them' foot controller, only to find that I could control on/off easily, but that was about it; I couldn't change from one color to another and then back, for example...just forward through all 21 pre-set colors and patterns in order (no backing up). $60 wasted, and it's never been used once. But the strip lights are now part of our fully automated show, and up light my drums/me quite awesomely.

 

 

Also ditto to this.

 

And...get fixtures using at least 1-3 watt LED's you will get much more output than the 5-10mm diodes.

[Hoppy Shimko]

My self contained show has about 20 led fixtures. they suck. yes, they change color and use less energy, but they suck. I can put two real 64 cans on and "drowned out" all 20 of the others. They are toys, not worthy of a real stage.

[tlbonehead]

My self contained show has about 20 led fixtures. they suck. yes, they change color and use less energy, but they suck. I can put two real 64 cans on and "drowned out" all 20 of the others. They are toys, not worthy of a real stage.

depends on what you get. I've found that 7x3 watt tri lights are easily as bright and vivid as a par 56 with 300 watt bulb. The 5-10mm lights, not so much.

[kmart]

 

My self contained show has about 20 led fixtures. they suck. yes, they change color and use less energy, but they suck. I can put two real 64 cans on and "drowned out" all 20 of the others. They are toys, not worthy of a real stage.

 

 

If the output of your LED lights is toy-like...

 

...you likely bought toy lights.

[wheresgrant3]

Nothing really toy like about our lighting. All LED, light, efficent and barely any heat. I think no matter what you buy it pays to have someone competent running them and setting them up.

 

[video=vimeo;30300933]

 

15 ft AMDJ Dura Truss

2- FX Fusion Bars #3

1-FX Fusion Bar #2

1- LED Starball

4-Colorsplash 200b

2 color splash 155b

2- Black & Decker Strobe Haligen Flood Lamps (for blinders)

And a new addition from the spring 4 beam RGX laser (Chinese made). LOL

 

We're on our 3rd Obey 80 controller. The first one had beer spilled on it... second one pudding (from pudding wrestling). Thankfully they are cheap and disposable.

 

 

 

In October we've owned this set up 3 years. We're due to replace some lighting. I'd like to get some Blizzard Puck Q12+ to replace the the colorsplash pars we have.

[SpaceNorman]

 

My self contained show has about 20 led fixtures. they suck. yes, they change color and use less energy, but they suck. I can put two real 64 cans on and "drowned out" all 20 of the others. They are toys, not worthy of a real stage.

 

 

I won't disagree with your point about a couple of real Par 64's being able to "drown out" all 20 of your led fixtures. Regardless - I'd still take a 20 fixture LED light system (even if they're "little" fixtures!) over real Par 64's any day of the week. Why? Simple - because I haven't played a stage that had the ceiling height, the trussing and/or the power necessary to drive a real Par 64 light show in years.

 

A significant percentage of the shows we do - we're set up on the floor or maybe a 6 inch raised platform - often in places where there's not much of a ceiling (9' - 12" maybe). Many of the banquet facilities we work were constructed for their aesthetics - and simply don't have a stage area with multiple circuits readily available. I'll gladly take a 20 fixture LED setup that I can use week in and week out over a system of Par 64's that I might have the opportunity to use a couple of gigs each year.

 

Real Par cans have their place if you're playing the right rooms - but the for vast majority of us weekend warrior types playing the local bar scene and/or local banquet facilities - a "right sized" system of LEDs is far more practical!!!!!

[ckcondon]

We use three Chauvet Colorstrips. One behind the drums and the other two as sidefill. All set on auto. We also have two led scanners for the dancefloor.

Works perfectly for small stages or any place that has no house lighting. Easy setup and let it go on it's own.

[BATCAT]

So, an update...

 

I couldn't really afford LED par cans. I bought two regular par 56-es. (and an inexpensive fog machine)

 

One question: If I had, say, $100-$150 more to spend, what should I get? I was thinking some kind of moonflower effect, or maybe a LED strip for the floor in front...

 

Whatever it is, it will have to be on the floor.

 

[Chaff67]

Are you using gels in the par 56's? Do you have a controller for them? What wattage bulb are you using?

 

If you are going to add an effect, such as a moonflower, you want to make sure that it will cut through your current lights (assuming they will be on all the time).

[kmart]

If you have $100-150 to spend, and only looking for a single fixture, maybe look into a ColorStrip Mini, but honestly I'd say to buy...some patience.

 

Then save up your pennies and buy a pair of fixtures (maybe a pair of ColorStrip minis) or larger fixtures so that you're able to light the entire front of stage well.

 

If you buy $100-150 worth of LED lighting and place itin front on the floor, what you will end up with is basically a small portion of the front of the stage (assuming center) somewhat lit from below, and a fair amount of the front of the stage...not.

[BATCAT]

 

Are you using gels in the par 56's? Do you have a controller for them? What wattage bulb are you using? If you are going to add an effect, such as a moonflower, you want to make sure that it will cut through your current lights (assuming they will be on all the time).

 

 

It's this one I believe, not sure of the wattage

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-dj-par-56-polished-can-with-lamp

 

Here's what I'm thinking of doing. (again, this all has to be pretty much from the floor, and we generally have to adhere to very short set-up times):

 

I'm going for "dramatic and spooky", not "party time" with this. Since there are usually some house lights (but nothing very exciting) I'll ask for red light only, then have the par cans on the floor, somewhere behind the drums or something. I'm thinking no gels. And some fog. My idea is to have the band dress entirely in backs and white (the drums are black) so we'd have an entirely black/white/red thing going on onstage. I'm planning to get a powerstrip with a footswitch so I can control the two par cans from the stage.

 

I'm totally open to input on all this BTW.

 

I just want one other thing to add a bit of excitement, not really a moving effect, but just something visually arresting or unusual.

[BATCAT]

Holy {censored}, here we go:

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/omnisistem-laser-glove

 

[sbrett]

Keep it simple. One band I'm in has something along the lines of 16 PAR 64s (non-LED), 9 scanners (the old HEAVY ones), a few strobes, spotlight, and 4-8 more PARs for front lighting. It looks amazing. It's also a royal pain in the ass to setup, tear down, troubleshoot, and maintain. It takes anywhere from 1 to 2 hours just to setup and get the lights working, and that is with two roadies and a couple of band members helping.

 

My other band is about to pick up a couple of 4-bar TRIs and maybe a few movable fixtures. Way lighter, way less cables, way less power consumption, and way less time to setup.

 

Lighting can get really expensive really fast, so I'd recommend not just buying odds and ends here and there. You'll end up with a bunch of fixtures that don't really make 'sense' together. Make a plan for what you eventually want the end product to look like, and buy things that complement that plan as you can afford them.

[BATCAT]

 

Keep it simple. One band I'm in has something along the lines of 16 PAR 64s (non-LED), 9 scanners (the old HEAVY ones), a few strobes, spotlight, and 4-8 more PARs for front lighting. It looks amazing. It's also a royal pain in the ass to setup, tear down, troubleshoot, and maintain. It takes anywhere from 1 to 2 hours just to setup and get the lights working, and that is with two roadies and a couple of band members helping.

 

 

Yeah, I'm talking about, like, 10-15 minute setup times, with no roadies. (maybe a friend to help) So simple is what I want. As I kinda said before, I'm basically thinking two par cans on the stage, dim house lights, and one "effect"-type light, which is what I'm looking for now. This seems kinda cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-WHyAVbhQ&feature=related

 

The thing is that so very few original bands playing smaller clubs put much effort into this stuff, so even doing something simple is going to make us really stand out. But the other side of it is that part of the reason so many bands don't do it is because you're talking about mostly cramped stages and very short setup times.