Talk to me about lighting

[sbrett]

 

Yeah, I'm talking about, like, 10-15 minute setup times, with no roadies. (maybe a friend to help) So simple is what I want. As I kinda said before, I'm basically thinking two par cans on the stage, dim house lights, and one "effect"-type light, which is what I'm looking for now. This seems kinda cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-WHyAVbhQ&feature=related

 

 

Probably not what you want to hear, but I think I'd skip that kind of effect light. First, you'll need a hazer/fogger to really see it, and after a few minutes of watching it do that thing it does you'll either annoy or bore the audience. I've found effect lighting works great if you keep things symmetrical, and it's the kind of thing you don't start adding until your base lighting is set. Not saying don't get it if you really want it, just saying don't get it now.

[BATCAT]

 

Probably not what you want to hear, but I think I'd skip that kind of effect light. First, you'll need a hazer/fogger to really see it, and after a few minutes of watching it do that thing it does you'll either annoy or bore the audience. I've found effect lighting works great if you keep things symmetrical, and it's the kind of thing you don't start adding until your base lighting is set. Not saying don't get it if you really want it, just saying don't get it now.

 

 

We have a fog machine. The thing is, I don't want a moving/flashing/changing color effect- thats pretty over-the-top for what we're doing, but I DO want a sort of star/beam pattern. Now, I know I can just get a moonflower-type effect and set it to one color/stationary (I can right?) but I don't want to spend a lot of cash on way more capability than I need.

 

I agree re symetry... which is why I'm thinging of something like the cans on either side and something more interesting in the middle, probably right behind the drummer.

[race81]

We use the 4bar chauvet led lights...one on each side of the stage. One set lighting the band, the other set for the dance floor. On top of the one for the dance floor is a galaxian mini......great little light for around $100 to add to the dance floor, and looks cool through smoke!

a link to the miCro!1

[Chaff67]

You need to find out if the venues you play at will allow a fog machine, many don't. As for the mini Galaxian, you will need the fog to get any kind of effect out of it, unless you point it to the dance floor like race81 mentions.

[kmart]

Probably not what you want to hear, but I think I'd skip that kind of effect light. First, you'll need a hazer/fogger to really see it, and after a few minutes of watching it do that thing it does you'll either annoy or bore the audience. I've found effect lighting works great if you keep things symmetrical , and it's the kind of thing you don't start adding until your base lighting is set. Not saying don't get it if you really want it, just saying don't get it now.

 

 

There is a whole lot of wisdom in the above.

Every single word of it, but especially the bolded parts.

[BATCAT]

There is a whole lot of wisdom in the above. Every single word of it, but especially the bolded parts.

 

Yeah, I'm not really interested in anything to add movement, color changes, or flashing. I just want a cool stationary color/pattern. Not trying to start a rave or anything.

[kmart]

Yeah, I'm not really interested in anything to add movement, color changes, or flashing. I just want a cool stationary color/pattern. Not trying to start a rave or anything.

Colorstrips or Colorstrip Minis seem to be calling you...

They can do solid colors and changes from one color to another, plus a few flashing patterns via the on-board pre-set programs...and you can make those changes real slow so they are less obvious.

Of course, you can also speed those changes up for when you're playing those ADD benefits.

[jimiv]

I've never found a buzzing problem with the LEDs either. Almost makes me wonder if there wouldn't be something wrong with them if they are causing a buzz? We usually split our power Left side/Right side. One mains stack, one light tree and half the backline on one circuit and the other side on another. And a third circuit for the back lighting truss which is 6 standard Par 56 cans and dimmers.

 

 

I found it to be unusual to have three separate circuits at the places we've played. I wish that were the common venue layout. Usually two circuits, sometimes only one. Once in a while, I have had to break out the 100' heavy duty 10 gauge extension cord to run off a different circuit for the lights.

[BATCAT]

I think I've got it... a pair of these:

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/chauvet-led-pinspot-2

 

...pointing up and out from either side of the drums, set to wide beam probably. Then something like putting the par cans in "sidefill" position, with red gels, then killing (or nearly killing) the house lights. I think that would look really menacing and cool, especially with fog.

[sbrett]

I think I've got it... a pair of these: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/chauvet-led-pinspot-2 ...pointing up and out from either side of the drums, set to wide beam probably. Then something like putting the par cans in "sidefill" position, with red gels, then killing (or nearly killing) the house lights. I think that would look really menacing and cool, especially with fog.

 

 

How are people going to see the band, and how are ya'll going to be able to see what you're doing? I'd put the pars up front facing the band, with amber gels. If you need another light, put it on the floor, in the back, facing up, center stage and blow some fog over it (or the pinspots as you suggest). It may not look menacing, but it will look more professional.

[BATCAT]

 

How are people going to see the band, and how are ya'll going to be able to see what you're doing? I'd put the pars up front facing the band, with amber gels. If you need another light, put it on the floor, in the back, facing up, center stage and blow some fog over it (or the pinspots as you suggest). It may not look menacing, but it will look more professional.

 

 

Well, my intention was to use the (red gel) pars to light the band, like you said (with some supplemental red light from the house lights, if needed) but from the side, rather than the front. My concern with doing them in the very front would be that with the smaller stages we often play, we might not be able to stand far enough back from them. (not to mention someone in the crowd up front could burn themself!). Off to the side there's more room. And yeah, the pin spots would be in the back, facing up (or slightly up and out) to make the fog look cool. I am wanting it somewhat dark.

 

I think we're talking about sort of the same thing, if I'm understanding you right.

[kmart]

...not to mention someone in the crowd up front could burn themself...

 

That's another reason you should save your pennies and get some better-than-toys- quality LEDs...

[BATCAT]

 

That's another reason you should save your pennies and get some better-than-toys- quality LEDs...

 

 

It would be nice, but honestly, sinking more than the several hundred into this that I am isn't an option. Aside from this stuff, I'm paying the recording and mixing of an album- it's all right out of my pocket and personal budget. You know how that goes. So I can either go with what I can afford now to try to improve our upcoming shows, or hope down the line I'll have more extra cash to spend on this stuff. Considering how low the bar is set with regard to original bands at the club level (generally, doing nothing at all) I think a cheap fog machine, two par cans, and a couple of led mini spots (or something- I haven't bought those yet) is, frankly, going above and beyond.

[Mutha Goose]

Actionsquid: You're getting some really good advice here, from people that have obviously been where you are and have moved forward. Anyone who's been there will give you the same advice. My advice to you is to listen a little better (no offense, I really am trying to be helpful). Look a little past where you are now...

[Snare227]

Honestly man, these guys are right. Back in my college days I was broke too and I didn't have a lot of money to throw into expensive music gear so I know where you are coming from. Let me give you a little advice from that standpoint.

You've got the right idea not trying to do both the stage and the crowd on a strict budget. Rule number one would be to light the performers, and then worry about backlighting etc, but it doesn't sound like you want standard "professional" looking lights, you want effect lighting and I get that.

Kmart is on to something with those Colorstrips. My suggestion for a dirt cheap lighting rig for you would be to save up for one "nice" fixture and the Color Strip would be my first choice. It just does so much for the money and has a decent spread. For a small stage one regular sized Colorstrip should be able to fill the stage with whatever color you want as your base color, granted you have a good placement. Then since LED prices are out of your price range, I would pick up a couple PAR 38 cans (30 bucks for 2) and a few gels. You can use them as up lighting like you were suggesting before or in other ways.

If it were me I would mount a Colorstrip to a T stand permanently wired up and ready to plug in behind the drums (short setup times) as a fill and eye candy, and then a couple of those 38s up on the mains pointing down at the performers or as uplighting behind the band up the walls behind the amps.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-dj-par-38b-can-buy-two-and-save

This stuff adds up quickly, but a nice unit that you can build around is better than throwing money down on something that will look cheesy. I'd spring for the CS/CSmini and go from there.

[BATCAT]

 

Kmart is on to something with those Colorstrips. My suggestion for a dirt cheap lighting rig for you would be to save up for one "nice" fixture and the Color Strip would be my first choice. It just does so much for the money and has a decent spread. For a small stage one regular sized Colorstrip should be able to fill the stage with whatever color you want as your base color, granted you have a good placement. If it were me I would mount a Colorstrip to a T stand permanently wired up and ready to plug in behind the drums (short setup times) as a fill and eye candy, and then a couple of those 38s up on the mains pointing down at the performers or as uplighting behind the band up the walls behind the amps.

 

 

Thanks for the detailed info. I'm considering those colorstrips for sure. The reason that at this point I'm kind of going back and forth between one of those and something like a pair of LED pinspots is that I (in most venues we play) already have the house lights, plus the par cans for uplighting or whatever, so something like the pinspots (pointing up behing the drums maybe) seems more dramatic (assuming there's fog). I'm not really sure how visually appealing a colorstrip on a stand behind the drums would look, especially since I don't want any flashing or color changing. But I'm definitely going to keep weighing those two options, and whichever I get, I can get the other down the road...

 

I don't want to bring lights to do anything the house rig can do anyhow, if you know what I mean.

[Potts]

 

But I can't spend money I don't have, and with shows coming up I simply don't want to do nothing at all under the assumption that sometime in the future I will have more and not less free money to spend on lights

 

 

There's nothing wrong with that line of thinking at all! My entire gear purchasing life has been like this just take the money you have and make the best possible decision you can. Oh and Squid...please lock the music stand thread. We're all ready.

[JoeDirt]

 

But the strip lights are now part of our fully automated show, and up light my drums/me quite awesomely.

 

 

Mini-strips are a drummers best friend. I get people asking me how my drums change colors all the time (my drums are chrome wrapped and reflect the light quite well).

[kmart]

 

I'm not really sure how visually appealing a colorstrip on a stand behind the drums would look, especially since I don't want any flashing or color changing.

 

 

I would suggest possibly considering placing it (or them, if you get a pair, esp. minis) on the floor aiming up.

I've got mine mounted on crossbars added to the front of my drum rack, low to the ground and aiming up, back and across.

 

Lights the drums, myself and the backdrop up pretty well.

[BATCAT]

 

I would suggest possibly considering placing it (or them, if you get a pair, esp. minis) on the floor aiming up. I've got mine mounted on crossbars added to the front of my drum rack, low to the ground and aiming up, back and across. Lights the drums, myself and the backdrop up pretty well.

 

 

Cool. That sounds like a good way to use 'em.

[Potts]

I would suggest possibly considering placing it (or them, if you get a pair, esp. minis) on the floor aiming up. I've got mine mounted on crossbars added to the front of my drum rack, low to the ground and aiming up, back and across. Lights the drums, myself and the backdrop up pretty well.

Just to add to that...Squid I think you said you didnt want them flashing or fading or whatever. There's a ton of presets on the colorwash minis that will do what ever you want. I had them on slow fade for about a year until I realized this and just keep them on all colors now and they just "wash" the little stage quite nicely.

[BATCAT]

 

Just to add to that...Squid I think you said you didnt want them flashing or fading or whatever. There's a ton of presets on the colorwash minis that will do what ever you want.

 

 

Yes, I dont want to do much color changing because part of why I'm going this is that I want to create a sort of "signature" onstage color scheme- lots of bold black and white accented with red.

[BATCAT]

So, because my local GC had one in stock, I went ahead and got a mini LED colorstrip. Pinspots will have to wait. Ive been messing around with it and it's pretty cool for sure, but I have a question... Ill take this to Lighting if nobody here knows but I thought Id try here first (manual isnt too helpful)...

 

Im experimenting with the setting that respond to sound, however, when trying out low sensitivities, if a bit of time passes by and theres no sound that registers, it just starts doing all kind of patterns. Id like it to hold whatever its doing if it isnt registering sound, otherwise if I use a sound-responsive setting Im going to feel like a jackass when its going nuts between songs. Anybody know how to make it ONLY change in response to sound?

[sbrett]

So, because my local GC had one in stock, I went ahead and got a mini LED colorstrip. Pinspots will have to wait. Ive been messing around with it and it's pretty cool for sure, but I have a question... Ill take this to Lighting if nobody here knows but I thought Id try here first (manual isnt too helpful)... Im experimenting with the setting that respond to sound, however, when trying out low sensitivities, if a bit of time passes by and theres no sound that registers, it just starts doing all kind of patterns. Id like it to hold whatever its doing if it isnt registering sound, otherwise if I use a sound-responsive setting Im going to feel like a jackass when its going nuts between songs. Anybody know how to make it ONLY change in response to sound?

 

 

I read elsewhere that you should set each program's P function to 51. Apparently there's no way to stop it, but it looks like this setting will cycle through the changes slowly and not strobe.

[kmart]

So, because my local GC had one in stock, I went ahead and got a mini LED colorstrip. Pinspots will have to wait. Ive been messing around with it and it's pretty cool for sure, but I have a question... Ill take this to Lighting if nobody here knows but I thought Id try here first (manual isnt too helpful)... Im experimenting with the setting that respond to sound, however, when trying out low sensitivities, if a bit of time passes by and theres no sound that registers, it just starts doing all kind of patterns. Id like it to hold whatever its doing if it isnt registering sound, otherwise if I use a sound-responsive setting Im going to feel like a jackass when its going nuts between songs. Anybody know how to make it ONLY change in response to sound?

 

 

Check the lighting forum; I'm positive someone will be able to specifically speak to this. I personally loathe the sound-activated modes on most lights from what I've experienced, and since our show is fully programmed, I don't have any time/experience on that mode.