Members Mutha Goose Posted August 1, 2012 Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 I have a few options available to me. Option 1: Marshall JVM205: The Marshall has a wonderful lead channel with it's own volume control so I can set my lead volume how ever much louder I want. I use a volume pedal (in front of the pre-amp) to vary gain. This is my current main gigging rig and it works great for hard rock to metal. Option 2: Carvin Legacy: This was my go-to amp for years. For lead boost, I use an EQ pedal in the effects loop, boosting mainly mids. I use this setup for fussion work. Option 3: Either of my Oranges or my Fender Amps: Guitar's volume knob. None of these amps respond well to lead boost. They just compress more. These cover everything else from blues to jazz to classic rock etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted August 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2012 You're right, but that's who is asking, so I provided an answer aimed at his situation. Not sure how answering for every kind of instrument and situation represented on the forum would have been as useful, so... Hey, if it works for you then great. I'm just going off my experience as a lead guitarist having used countless rig configurations in countless settings, plus having discussed this ad nauseum with other guitarists here, in real life, and on other forums. I said in certain settings just using a volume knob works fine. For the type of work myself and the OP do, it usually does not. I only mentioned that because the "just use your volume knob" I see here an everywhere else started, which I knew wouldn't be of much use to the OP. Sorry if it came across as harsh. Fair enough. Anyhow, something that hasn't been brought up is that using the volume for lead boosts doesn't mean you don't use dirt pedals or channel switching amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted August 1, 2012 Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 So what's your rig and how do you boost? When I'm using the GSP1101 and want a clean boost I setup the patch with a compressor or there's even a couple of the distortion models that don't distort to much. With my Tech 21 amp there is a boost switch on the included foot pedal. Even though many people have success with it, one thing I never do is use the volume knob on the guitar because the signal level from passive pickups is low output and high impedance and I like my amp/modeler to get it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hmm, I'm not sure how to react to this thread.. Maybe I should clarify the question- I currently use a GSP1101 --> EQ (boost) ---> Clean channel on amp. It works for me. I DO use my vol knob excessively for changes to my tone and gain, but it does little in the way of actual volume. IME, vol knobs never really controlled volume as much as gain until you are around 1-2 vol. It's not the question I meant to ask anyways. I'm talking about full-volume balls out rocking, and then climbing over a 2nd guitarist with a well pronounced solo. Like I said, what I do works. The question I was dancing around was that I wanted to get an alt-setup:guitar --> bypass GSP ---> eq, pedals --> amp. Now, when on the clean channel, the EQ pedal directly boosts the volume (everything flatlined, volume up a hair), but on Marshall, line 6, and just about every other amp I've tried, the distortion channel gets zero boost from the EQ pedal. Even jacking every knob to 11.. there's a tonal difference, but no actual volume gain. I think this was touched upon in reply #13 (thanks strat), and it's notable that any pedals on the distortion channel like a TS or EQ or whatever else does nothing to the end volume level. Why is it so different between the clean and distortion channels, and I guess in the end my question was how do people overcome it when they are at 10 on the guitar, on the distortion channel with heavy gain (say 80's metal for an example) and then "boost" over the other guitarist for the solo? Squiddy- I'm surprised at your comments, as we've all acknowledged the need for this forum to be more diverse in topics and less snarky responses. I posted this here in an attempt to be more engaging and with less flammable material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted August 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2012 Squiddy- I'm surprised at your comments, as we've all acknowledged the need for this forum to be more diverse in topics and less snarky responses. I posted this here in an attempt to be more engaging and with less flammable material. It wasn't intended to be snarky and I apologize if it came off that way. I just meant it to be direct. Your question seemed extremely general and the answer I was referring seemed to be reframing the question in a very specific way. I also didn't understand the asserion that someone who favors their volume knob wouldn't understand why other people use different methods. It just seemed like an odd response. His subsequent post clarified it somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted August 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 It wasn't intended to be snarky and I apologize if it came off that way. I just meant it to be direct. Your question seemed extremely general and the answer I was referring seemed to be reframing the question in a very specific way. I also didn't understand the asserion that someone who favors their volume knob wouldn't understand why other people use different methods. It just seemed like an odd response. His subsequent post clarified it somewhat. yeah I was trying originally to keep it general just to see what people did with what kinds of setups, but I guess I was too vague and everyone just kinda fell back on "use the volume knob", but in a coverband situation with 2 guitars, there's a need for a much more substantial boost. My real issue is that I feel like my distortion channel on my marshall is useless as there's no way to boost it directly. This isn't a faulty amp.. every marshall I've ever owned is that way, and my 2nd guitarist found last night that his line 6 has the exact same issue. We were screwing around with how we set up and work together and were sorely disappointed that we felt trapped into using our amps for clean only and letting the rest go unused. I will go ahead and expand a little on our progress too- My GSP switches between patches instantly, so creating a slightly higher volume patch with some solo fx is easy, but his line 6 doesn't switch as fast and there's an audible delay in it, so that is even worse for him, as he uses stompboxes and was trying to get away from them, but now feels trapped by them Sorry if I jumped at you, but it really did come off snarky. maybe I should re-read it. No worries, I dont get butt-hurt over it.. I just snap back lol/ It's all good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 1, 2012 Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 Why is it so different between the clean and distortion channels, and I guess in the end my question was how do people overcome it when they are at 10 on the guitar, on the distortion channel with heavy gain (say 80's metal for an example) and then "boost" over the other guitarist for the solo? Amps are distorting because they've reached the maximum output from the tubes, so the tubes start clipping. Adding a boost to an already distorted amp just adds more distortion and compression. Assuming your power tubes aren't clipping, you can put a boost in the loop, but a boost in front of either section of your amp that's already pushed into distortion can't add volume. That's where the volume pedal in the loop comes in, and it's especially handy on two channel amps. You dial in your amp sound the way you want, then reduce the overall volume using the pedal. That will cut down on the signal going into the power section and if you're counting on power amp distortion, it may change your sound a little. If you're using the preamp for dirt, it won't change your sound at all. Anyway, you just use the pedal to dial back the volume, then open it up when you want to play leads. The combination of using your guitar's volume and a pedal in the loop, especially with a good multi-channel amp, gives you pretty much unlimited control of how much distortion you get and how loud your amp is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dda Posted August 1, 2012 Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 I play through a VOX AC-30 so, since I very rarely play in a venue large enough that I can really crank it, all of my overdrive and distortion comes from pedals. I have an MXR Micro Amp at the end of my pedal chain that I use to boost solos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted August 1, 2012 Members Share Posted August 1, 2012 Also, I can't remember the last time I was in a band with a second guitarist, so I am able to easily tweak my freqs so that I am not really sitting in a sonic space occupied by the other instruments. So my rhythm playing sits in the mix well, and my leads, even using the exact same settings and volume, cut through just fine. Come to think of it, there are currently only a handful of songs (out of hundreds) where I change settings anywhere mid-song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Gonna try the eq pedal in between my HD500 and the amp. Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 I would leave my EQ on all the time with a lower volume and turn it off for solo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm just curious as I've only been actively doing leads at gigs for about three years now-I found that EQ pedals do a great job when you are using a modeling pedal or stompboxes in front into a clean amp. BUT.. when using both marshall channels clean/dirty, the EQ pedal works on the clean channel for boost, but does not boost the heavy channel, So I had to abandon that setup. I found that creating a separate patch on the GSP for boost works, but the other guitarist in my band has issues with switching patches on his line 6 ( he has a really nice flex-wave I think), there's a very small delay, but very noticeable, and his eq does nothing to boost the amp. I don't get any delay with my GSP1101 when switching patches, but I did with my GNX3000 pedal (retired it).So what's your rig and how do you boost?Whatever boost you use, it has to come AFTER your signal area where your gain/overdrive/saturation is taking place, otherwise you are mainly just increasing gain. (if you are dealing with an overdriven rhythm tone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 I use a stereo amp and a mono amp together, with a number of channel switching capabilities, and about 7-8 diferent ways of boosting my lead volumes. I also use a wah, many times in a somewhat fixed position to find the frequencies that sound good and cut thru properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted August 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Amps are distorting because they've reached the maximum output from the tubes, so the tubes start clipping. Adding a boost to an already distorted amp just adds more distortion and compression. Assuming your power tubes aren't clipping, you can put a boost in the loop, but a boost in front of either section of your amp that's already pushed into distortion can't add volume.That's where the volume pedal in the loop comes in, and it's especially handy on two channel amps. You dial in your amp sound the way you want, then reduce the overall volume using the pedal. That will cut down on the signal going into the power section and if you're counting on power amp distortion, it may change your sound a little. If you're using the preamp for dirt, it won't change your sound at all. Anyway, you just use the pedal to dial back the volume, then open it up when you want to play leads. The combination of using your guitar's volume and a pedal in the loop, especially with a good multi-channel amp, gives you pretty much unlimited control of how much distortion you get and how loud your amp is. I think we have the answer, thanks GCDEF and Stratotastic (both explained it well even though I only quoted one) - I will try out using a vol pedal in the FX loop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 This topic always gets a flood of "just use your guitar volume knob" responses, but these guys probably don't understand the kind of versatility that cover band players need. For example, you may need an all out distorted rhythm sound but at modest volumes, like for 80's stuff, but then your lead comes up and you need that added volume boost. If you play with even a modest amount of overdrive on your basic sound, turning up the volume knob is going to add more gain, but not necessarily volume. If you play mostly clean, then that's a different story. Anyway, solutions I've used in the past that all work--talking tube amps here: Volume pedal or volume boost in the effects loop. Effects loop is key as it comes AFTER your preamp section (where the distortion is generated) but before the power section (where volume is generated). If you play into a clean amp and generate all your distortion/OD with pedals, either of the above work if you put them after your distortion/OD in your pedal chain. Essentially it's the same idea--putting the boost after your overdrive but before your power tubes. Treble booster or EQ. This works pretty well if you have no choice but to put it before your amp distortion. It boosts the high mids and upper EQ to be heard better in the mix. I use this with my JCM 800 which is always running at fairly high gain and doesn't have an effects loop. A Tube Screamer or vol boost can work for this, depending on how much gain you have in your basic sound. Lead boost on your amp. My Mark V has this, but it's annoying because it's adjustable and not linear, so any time I adjust any of the channel levels, it throws the lead boost level out of whack. (A little inside, but if you have a Mark V you understand ) Right now I use a combination of treble boost (via my Line 6 M13) and lead boost from the amp. Another thing to be considered is the size of your band. A trio or single-guitar unit doesn't require as many "tricks" since there are fewer instruments you need to be heard over. When you go into a solo, you can usually just play it and don't need to leapfrog over someone else's sound to be heard. So if all else fails, you can just kick out everyone else but the rhythm section and be good to go. Great post! Exactly! Obviously posted by a player. In the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Great post! Exactly! Obviously posted by a player. In the real world. So who here isn't a "player" in the "real world"? You should name names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chadd Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Ok, everyone just whip them out and get them measured. Then maybe we can have a discussion without the whole "internet tough guy" routine. As for the original question, I use a Marshall TSL60. The vast majority of my overdrive tones come from the rhythm channel or clean channel with a pedal, then I switch to the lead channel for a boost. The third channel shares tone controls with the rhythm channel, but really does help add a ton of versatility to the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yer Blues Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 I really think if I keep playing in cover bands I will go to something like a POD HD500 directly into the PA.... although I will probably set up pretty much like my amp. Clean, dirty, and lead sound then use a couple of effects to color the sound. Although a microvibe and wah are really the only effects I use. I will miss cranking an amp though. I got a Ceriatone 18/7 watt Plexi clone awhile back and I hadn't played it in about a year. I took it out this week and man it sounds awesome, but even at 7 watts it is louder than I'll ever get to use. I guess I could look into getting an attuenator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Guitar (Strat or LP)-->TS9-->Fulltone OCD-->TS808-->clean Fender Deluxe Reverb. Between this setup and volume/tone knobs, I can get ANY sound I want with a HUGE range going from dead clean to dirtier than all hell. The 808 serves as the lead boost, used with any combination of the pedals before it. Slight tube reverb and I'm good to go. Oh...and push your other guitarist off the stage if he can't learn to roll down his volume a tad while you solo (and vice versa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Guitar (Strat or LP)-->TS9-->Fulltone OCD-->TS808-->clean Fender Deluxe Reverb. Between this setup and volume/tone knobs, I can get ANY sound I want with a HUGE range going from dead clean to dirtier than all hell. The 808 serves as the lead boost, used with any combination of the pedals before it. Slight tube reverb and I'm good to go. Oh...and push your other guitarist off the stage if he can't learn to roll down his volume a tad while you solo (and vice versa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dfwadjuster Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Guitar (Strat or LP)-->TS9-->Fulltone OCD-->TS808-->clean Fender Deluxe Reverb. Between this setup and volume/tone knobs, I can get ANY sound I want with a HUGE range going from dead clean to dirtier than all hell. The 808 serves as the lead boost, used with any combination of the pedals before it. Slight tube reverb and I'm good to go. Oh...and push your other guitarist off the stage if he can't learn to roll down his volume a tad while you solo (and vice versa). So if I'm getting what you and Stratotastic are saying...it's beneficial to have your "boost" AFTER the other pedals? Or am I making that sh!t up and need to reread your posts? Not to hijack, but I also use a Tubescreamer for boost, and in my new band (they play louder and with more dirt than my old band) I'm finding it lacking. First I'll swap it's spot on the pedalboard. Failing that would an actual boost pedal provide more....wait for it.....wait for it....boost? In the old band we just didn't have the stage volume that the new band seems to like, so this issue of boost just never came up...the TS was plenty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chadd Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 At the end it should just make everything louder. At the front, it could impact those other pedals/effects. I have a clean boost, an eq and a TS, but they area ll for different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 When I had my last amp built I had him throw in a solo boost which is foot switchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roamingbard13 Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 My Egnater Renegade has a "Main 2" button on the footswitch that'll boost the volume to whatever I set it to. It works on both channels...or one or the other depending on how I have it set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ku'Yleh Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 sometimes a separate patch on the POD, sometimes different pup volumes + using the pup switch, sometimes guitar knob... depends on the song, and how I want the change in dynamics to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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