Members Tullsterx Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by trevcda The last thing you want to do in this situation is to have to depend on an unknown to hear anything but vocals in the monitors, and with a twelve minute throw and go change over, even that may be a crapshoot. Bring amplication for instruments. I agree with this. I would never trust any unknown system (to me) to amplify my keys on stage. So many things could go wrong with the monitors during change-over in my opinion. Just bring a simplifed setup if you can. But I always run with a stage amp. And have a DI ready to patch into the snake. And, yeah, you mic the guitar not DI. So much of a guitar's sound comes from the guitar amp and speaker cabinet. . . you want to capture all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by WynnD Amazingly good advice. One other thing, if you're usually packed in tight, continue to pack the group tight even if there is a ton of space available. You want to hear your bandmates as closely to normal as you can and if you spread out, it will be different. Then pray that the sound engineer is good. Good luck! See posts #69 and #73. I assume everyone has the opportunity / requirement of setting up differently at various venues. We're still in experimental mode. I've been front / back, left / right. . . . We're all used to being self-contained and although it works reasonably well, this is my first time with everyone going DI, and although there's the potential for problems like the ones we had, I'd like to consider doing that regularly, assuming we have more time and control over things than we did here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Tullsterx I agree with this. I would never trust any unknown system (to me) to amplify my keys on stage. So many things could go wrong with the monitors during change-over in my opinion. Just bring a simplifed setup if you can. But I always run with a stage amp. And have a DI ready to patch into the snake. And, yeah, you mic the guitar not DI. So much of a guitar's sound comes from the guitar amp and speaker cabinet. . . you want to capture all that. We did mic the guitar . . . and I did have my own amp. The drums drowned it out. Everybody says TRUST the sound guy; PRAY that he's good. Well we should have taken more control over the situation that we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues We did mic the guitar . . . and I did have my own amp. The drums drowned it out. Everybody says TRUST the sound guy; PRAY that he's good. Well we should have taken more control over the situation that we did. Well if the drums were too loud in the monitor all you had to do was tell the soundman to take them out of the monitor mix. He could have done so in about 10 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Well if the drums were too loud in the monitor all you had to do was tell the soundman to take them out of the monitor mix. He could have done so in about 10 seconds. You'd think it would be that easy . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 I'm also curious why sound check was drum-tone oriented. Wouldn't he have gotten that right for the first group using that kit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by Tullsterx I would never trust any unknown system (to me) to amplify my keys on stage. So many things could go wrong with the monitors during change-over in my opinion. Just bring a simplifed setup if you can. But I always run with a stage amp. And have a DI ready to patch into the snake.... Amen to that! My gig rig is designed such that I have total control over my stage sound - and simply send a keys submix to FOH mixer. Never again will I rely on trying to get the attention of somebody at a mixing station 70 feet away to "adjust" what I'm hearing on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minn12 Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues We had very little time to figure out how much of everything was going to come back to us through the monitors. He spent most of his time on the tone of each drum, then sent the set back to us at an ear splitting volume. I would have preferred nothing at all, given that he was center back on a two foot riser. We should have stopped the first song immediately and asked him to correct it. I thought the sound on the video clip was decent, nothing seemed out of whack. It did seem like the lead singer may have been clipping his channel and distorting a bit on certain loud singing parts, but it's hard to tell for sure. Curious if you were using a shared drum kit, or if that one was yours? Even if the drums were being swapped out, he shouldn't need to 'sound check' again them once the first band was dialed in. This seems odd. Also, it would be unusual for a sound tech to put drums in all the monitors, unless a prior band specifically wanted that and it was left over or something. In any case, you should have indeed asked to kill the drums in the wedges once you noticed what was going on. All in all, it seems like the band sounded good, and hopefully you can get some work out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by minn12 I thought the sound on the video clip was decent, nothing seemed out of whack. It did seem like the lead singer may have been clipping his channel and distorting a bit on certain loud singing parts, but it's hard to tell for sure. Curious if you were using a shared drum kit, or if that one was yours? Even if the drums were being swapped out, he shouldn't need to 'sound check' again them once the first band was dialed in. This seems odd. Also, it would be unusual for a sound tech to put drums in all the monitors, unless a prior band specifically wanted that and it was left over or something. In any case, you should have indeed asked to kill the drums in the wedges once you noticed what was going on. All in all, it seems like the band sounded good, and hopefully you can get some work out of it. I heard the lead vocal mic clipping too. We were not sharing drums. This is normally a "metal" club. Don't know if that style typically wants them in the monitors. Wasn't my call to interrupt the "show" and talk to the sound guy about fixing the stage mix after the first song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted December 29, 2012 Members Share Posted December 29, 2012 If I have to play electronic guitar at one of these types of gigs I bring this...and dime every control on the front panel. F*cuk the soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 29, 2012 Members Share Posted December 29, 2012 Originally Posted by OldGuitarPlayer If I have to play electronic guitar at one of these types of gigs I bring this...and dime every control on the front panel. F*cuk the soundman. Well hopefully you don't have to play electronic guitar very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted December 29, 2012 Members Share Posted December 29, 2012 Surprised no one picked this up.The band is good, has talent, no one stepped on each other, tons of separation of instruments. I have NO idea whats going on on stage, nor what the audience was hearing because the CLIP had nothing to do with any of that...as recording input levels and mix has ZERO to do with with monitor or PA levels. Anybody that records would know that. Hence if the soundguy was getting hammered by the bass (I'll take your word for that) it might be why there is NO bass in the clip...where he might have pulled it back at the board, which in turn pulled it back on the recording input, too low...and hence why there is no bass in the clip, hence surprise surprise, the sound guy screwed up. That said, the video quality could be better...but all in all...it was very decent, with the only real issue being at the sound guy / recording level / video level. Also, if your desire is to use that clip to get business, if that is the end result, works best if you show the audience dancing, clapping, 'see we played to a packed house'....If the clip comes off like a studio demo, fine, but that says nothing about whether your going to get people out of their seats dancing and up to the bar buying drinks. 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 30, 2012 Members Share Posted December 30, 2012 Originally Posted by OldGuitarPlayer If I have to play electronic guitar at one of these types of gigs I bring this...and dime every control on the front panel. F*cuk the soundman. You dime a silver face on stage? Either something's wrong with the amp or your ears. Those things get loud as hell. Not to mention the shrill harsh tone. Blues deluxes sound much better and they're smaller and lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Dime an amp for a demo with the band? Other bands are waiting to play? Your peers in the audience? Your trying to make a good impression?That's the very definition of self sabotage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Sillypeoples Dime an amp for a demo with the band? Other bands are waiting to play? Your peers in the audience? Your trying to make a good impression? That's the very definition of self sabotage. Well those silver twins do have a weak preamp: can't get even overdrive tones without outboard. But still,I've played through and played gigs wih that exact amp and I can't think of one situation that would call for diming it. As a bass player I can get away with using my rig to carry the room but guitar is best kept in pa cuz it gets so beamy and harsh at loud amp volumes. Trust me: I played for years with a stupid loud guitarist. He had beam blockers an all that but he still killed and continues to kill the sound of the band he's in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Wade - A friend has a Silverface with JBLs, a Vintage rig for a deal...I go over to check it out....'so wheres the dirt?'....he comes over and turns it up and up, finally it breaks up into that frippy, farty, poopy tube break up stuff....I just kinda laughed. That was one of those moments that got me closer and closer to settling in on Marshals. My jam rig is a Marshall MG50 or a Peavy Classic 30. I don't yell at guys to turn down any more, no more screaming and yelling, just turn and angle my amp right at their head, maybe go to a bridge pickup and just keep stepping on my volume control.It's really amazing...some of these guys are obviously on drugs, so out there.....it's gotten so stupid that one time a bum came in off the street to tell us we were too loud. Looking back, as much as it was a cluster at the time, it was kinda fun to have that horsepower on stage....and just watch the other guitar player glower at me...I mean he can either turn down or go deaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 I use a 1984 100W JCM 800 with a 212 cab when I gig. I user a Marshall CD10 when we practice. My big Marshall's stay in the garage, waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 I use a 1984 100W JCM 800 with a 212 cab when I gig. I user a Marshall CD10 when we practice. My big Marshall's stay in the garage, waiting. I like how you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by wades_keys Well those silver twins do have a weak preamp: can't get even overdrive tones without outboard. But still,I've played through and played gigs wih that exact amp and I can't think of one situation that would call for diming it. I'm thinking OGP was being faceticious about diming every control on the front panel, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 I'm thinking OGP was being faceticious about diming every control on the front panel, but I could be wrong. He probably was, yeah. But what's the fun in that lol. I try to have fun with music and talking about it too. Happy New Years David: if I make it through I'll probably be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Sillypeoples Wade - A friend has a Silverface with JBLs, a Vintage rig for a deal...I go over to check it out....'so wheres the dirt?'....he comes over and turns it up and up, finally it breaks up into that frippy, farty, poopy tube break up stuff....I just kinda laughed. My bro and I always laugh at the old Beatles songs where they're just cranking those old amps. "Oh yeah, I'll tell you something" FLUM FLUM FLUM FLUM FLUM LMFAO. It would be cool to put together a pre 1965 Beatles act and call it the FLUM tones lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted January 2, 2013 Members Share Posted January 2, 2013 Wade - I wonder how many rock stars listen to their early stuff and just die a little bit. Clapton talked of just cringing as he watched a concert video of himself so bombed out that he played most of the concert on his back. Hendrix was booed off the stage when he play Harlem...I don't like to focus on the negative, but I think it's important to not get caught up in the old school vintage, grail tone, analogue, tube warmth, Rolling Stone, old music rules, new music sucks, hype that we are supposed chug down like a stripper at 3am behind the dumpster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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