Members IsildursBane Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 You could try telling him you'd rather not go through the PA at all and just rely on your stage volume and see what they say. From the looks of the size of the room, I'm not sure that'd be a good idea though. It would not be a good idea, and as a sound guy I take this attitude as kind of a pretentious dick move on the part of the talent, highlighting how little they actually know about what it takes to get a balanced sound on an amplified stage. The VAST majority of times I've acquiesced to the talent in these situations, I've come to regret it (including having a Tony-winning composer chiding me for it when engineering a production of his musical). You telling me that I don't need a keyboard (or any other instrument) feed out front would be like me telling you that you don't need a certain octave or patch on your keyboard. IOW, I'll let you make your decisions; you let me make mine. This isn't rocket science and any sound guy who's not an idiot will be able to hear that the keys need to be louder or softer in parts and adjust accordingly. Or better yet, adjust your playing accordingly so he doesn't have to do anything. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by IsildursBane It would not be a good idea, and as a sound guy I take this attitude as kind of a pretentious dick move on the part of the talent, highlighting how little they actually know about what it takes to get a balanced sound on an amplified stage. The VAST majority of times I've acquiesced to the talent in these situations, I've come to regret it (including having a Tony-winning composer chiding me for it when engineering a production of his musical). You telling me that I don't need a keyboard (or any other instrument) feed out front would be like me telling you that you don't need a certain octave or patch on your keyboard. IOW, I'll let you make your decisions; you let me make mine. This isn't rocket science and any sound guy who's not an idiot will be able to hear that the keys need to be louder or softer in parts and adjust accordingly. Or better yet, adjust your playing accordingly so he doesn't have to do anything. -Dan. Indeed. The way to approach these sort of gigs, generally speaking, if every non-drumming instrumentalist is using an amp, is to simply set up, plug in, and set stuff so you can hear each other and yourselves comfortably onstage, but no louder. If the sound guy wants to mic something, run an XLR out, whatever... just let him do it it. Let him worry about FOH because that's his job, and with 15 minutes to set up you don't have time to make it your job anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by IsildursBane It would not be a good idea, and as a sound guy I take this attitude as kind of a pretentious dick move on the part of the talent, highlighting how little they actually know about what it takes to get a balanced sound on an amplified stage. The VAST majority of times I've acquiesced to the talent in these situations, I've come to regret it (including having a Tony-winning composer chiding me for it when engineering a production of his musical). You telling me that I don't need a keyboard (or any other instrument) feed out front would be like me telling you that you don't need a certain octave or patch on your keyboard. IOW, I'll let you make your decisions; you let me make mine. This isn't rocket science and any sound guy who's not an idiot will be able to hear that the keys need to be louder or softer in parts and adjust accordingly. Or better yet, adjust your playing accordingly so he doesn't have to do anything. -Dan. Indeed. The way to approach these sort of gigs, generally speaking, if every non-drumming instrumentalist is using an amp, is to simply set up, plug in, and set stuff so you can hear each other and yourselves comfortably onstage, but no louder. If the sound guy wants to mic something, run an XLR out, whatever... just let him do it it. Let him worry about FOH because that's his job, and with 15 minutes to set up you don't have time to make it your job anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 It would not be a good idea, and as a sound guy I take this attitude as kind of a pretentious dick move on the part of the talent, highlighting how little they actually know about what it takes to get a balanced sound on an amplified stage. The VAST majority of times I've acquiesced to the talent in these situations, I've come to regret it (including having a Tony-winning composer chiding me for it when engineering a production of his musical). You telling me that I don't need a keyboard (or any other instrument) feed out front would be like me telling you that you don't need a certain octave or patch on your keyboard. IOW, I'll let you make your decisions; you let me make mine. This isn't rocket science and any sound guy who's not an idiot will be able to hear that the keys need to be louder or softer in parts and adjust accordingly. Or better yet, adjust your playing accordingly so he doesn't have to do anything. When ever we play with sound guys its typically on a big stage with a real pro level sound company. I just do what they tell me and when its time to play , i make it sound right to me on stage and take a fatalistic view that if they make it sound like crap at the FOH its their problem. that never seems to happen ,, fancy that ,, they have the job because they know how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 It would not be a good idea, and as a sound guy I take this attitude as kind of a pretentious dick move on the part of the talent, highlighting how little they actually know about what it takes to get a balanced sound on an amplified stage. The VAST majority of times I've acquiesced to the talent in these situations, I've come to regret it (including having a Tony-winning composer chiding me for it when engineering a production of his musical). You telling me that I don't need a keyboard (or any other instrument) feed out front would be like me telling you that you don't need a certain octave or patch on your keyboard. IOW, I'll let you make your decisions; you let me make mine. This isn't rocket science and any sound guy who's not an idiot will be able to hear that the keys need to be louder or softer in parts and adjust accordingly. Or better yet, adjust your playing accordingly so he doesn't have to do anything. When ever we play with sound guys its typically on a big stage with a real pro level sound company. I just do what they tell me and when its time to play , i make it sound right to me on stage and take a fatalistic view that if they make it sound like crap at the FOH its their problem. that never seems to happen ,, fancy that ,, they have the job because they know how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 It sounds like their focus is on FOH more than individual monitor concerns, and given the time constraints, I don't see how it could be otherwise. If I can control the volume and position of my own amp, I'll be a lot more comfortable than if all I can hear is their mix through monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 It sounds like their focus is on FOH more than individual monitor concerns, and given the time constraints, I don't see how it could be otherwise. If I can control the volume and position of my own amp, I'll be a lot more comfortable than if all I can hear is their mix through monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hockeyguy Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 This is the old Jaxx. I've played there a bunch. If Bill or mike is running sound, they are the best in the business. The best. They're probably going to have a guy in there who knows the drill and may have local help to cart gear on and off. The staging area is very small off of stage left and can be a real clusterf##k. A bunch of bands trying to get drums and gear set up off to the side while the band plays on the stage. Load-in/out is easy and the stage is close to the door. Just a few steps from stage to floor and they should have a ramp set up which will make wheeling things a snap. The stage is equipped with front monitors and sidefills so hearing should not be a problem. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hockeyguy Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 This is the old Jaxx. I've played there a bunch. If Bill or mike is running sound, they are the best in the business. The best. They're probably going to have a guy in there who knows the drill and may have local help to cart gear on and off. The staging area is very small off of stage left and can be a real clusterf##k. A bunch of bands trying to get drums and gear set up off to the side while the band plays on the stage. Load-in/out is easy and the stage is close to the door. Just a few steps from stage to floor and they should have a ramp set up which will make wheeling things a snap. The stage is equipped with front monitors and sidefills so hearing should not be a problem. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by hockeyguy This is the old Jaxx. I've played there a bunch. If Bill or mike is running sound, they are the best in the business. The best. They're probably going to have a guy in there who knows the drill and may have local help to cart gear on and off. The staging area is very small off of stage left and can be a real clusterf##k. A bunch of bands trying to get drums and gear set up off to the side while the band plays on the stage. Load-in/out is easy and the stage is close to the door. Just a few steps from stage to floor and they should have a ramp set up which will make wheeling things a snap. The stage is equipped with front monitors and sidefills so hearing should not be a problem. Good Luck! That's encouraging . . . well mostly. From the picture, I suspected there wasn't much room off stage for set up. Looks like you've moved away, but if you're in town, drop by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by hockeyguy This is the old Jaxx. I've played there a bunch. If Bill or mike is running sound, they are the best in the business. The best. They're probably going to have a guy in there who knows the drill and may have local help to cart gear on and off. The staging area is very small off of stage left and can be a real clusterf##k. A bunch of bands trying to get drums and gear set up off to the side while the band plays on the stage. Load-in/out is easy and the stage is close to the door. Just a few steps from stage to floor and they should have a ramp set up which will make wheeling things a snap. The stage is equipped with front monitors and sidefills so hearing should not be a problem. Good Luck! That's encouraging . . . well mostly. From the picture, I suspected there wasn't much room off stage for set up. Looks like you've moved away, but if you're in town, drop by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Having a bass player with the rig, ear for the mix and skills to cover the room without putting bass in PA will give the best chance at letting a crap PA carry the vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Having a bass player with the rig, ear for the mix and skills to cover the room without putting bass in PA will give the best chance at letting a crap PA carry the vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sounds like this wasn't a crap pa. Bets to go check out a show at the place and get an idea of monitoring setup and skill of man at desk. We played a mid size room with undersize "crap" house pa once but sound guy was pro and super easy to work with. I gave him a DI. Same pa with crap sounguy and I'm using my bass amp to cover the gig. That's why I have 500 watts up there and a 4x10. Bass only instrument up there that can carry room from stage without beaming. Done it many times; heard it done many times. Ain't for everyone though: some bassists can't hack it; can be tough at times. Gotta listen for booms and use that parametric and the right bass and tone settings. P bass terrible for this IMO. Anyway later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Sounds like this wasn't a crap pa. Bets to go check out a show at the place and get an idea of monitoring setup and skill of man at desk. We played a mid size room with undersize "crap" house pa once but sound guy was pro and super easy to work with. I gave him a DI. Same pa with crap sounguy and I'm using my bass amp to cover the gig. That's why I have 500 watts up there and a 4x10. Bass only instrument up there that can carry room from stage without beaming. Done it many times; heard it done many times. Ain't for everyone though: some bassists can't hack it; can be tough at times. Gotta listen for booms and use that parametric and the right bass and tone settings. P bass terrible for this IMO. Anyway later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minn12 Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Just talked to an employee. I may try to talk to the sound man this evening . . . We have 15 minutes to set up. They provide mics, stands and eight monitors, but not drums or amps. We're all expected to arrive early because the performance order won't be determined until just before start time. Sharing drums is fairly common in these cases, isn't it? I've done a lot of these multi-band shows as a sound tech. Try hard to agree on a shared drum kit and bass rig. Someone with good gear usually steps up and volunteers. That will save a lot of time. (Some drummers may want to use their own snare or cymbals etc. which is no big deal.) As for your keyboard, definitely bring an amp for your own keyboard monitoring and let the sound guy do the rest. He will get you in the mix. Based on the pics of the board and console, it is very likely the techs will be fine and do a good job for all bands. They will likely get things dialed in nicely during the first band's slot, so it should be fine after that for everyone. Just show up early and have a good show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minn12 Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Just talked to an employee. I may try to talk to the sound man this evening . . . We have 15 minutes to set up. They provide mics, stands and eight monitors, but not drums or amps. We're all expected to arrive early because the performance order won't be determined until just before start time. Sharing drums is fairly common in these cases, isn't it? I've done a lot of these multi-band shows as a sound tech. Try hard to agree on a shared drum kit and bass rig. Someone with good gear usually steps up and volunteers. That will save a lot of time. (Some drummers may want to use their own snare or cymbals etc. which is no big deal.) As for your keyboard, definitely bring an amp for your own keyboard monitoring and let the sound guy do the rest. He will get you in the mix. Based on the pics of the board and console, it is very likely the techs will be fine and do a good job for all bands. They will likely get things dialed in nicely during the first band's slot, so it should be fine after that for everyone. Just show up early and have a good show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srspud Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Something I haven't seen mentioned yet - if there are multiple bands, have someone you trust keep an eye on your gear when you are not using it. Not all musicians have integrity. I've heard a lot of stories from musicians that I've worked with that have lost gear to someone else at the venue while they were playing, or while the gear was being moved around. Just saying play it safe in what might be a hectic uncontrolled situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srspud Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Something I haven't seen mentioned yet - if there are multiple bands, have someone you trust keep an eye on your gear when you are not using it. Not all musicians have integrity. I've heard a lot of stories from musicians that I've worked with that have lost gear to someone else at the venue while they were playing, or while the gear was being moved around. Just saying play it safe in what might be a hectic uncontrolled situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 22, 2012 Members Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hard to tell from the picture if the gear is crap or not. If you talk to the soundman ask what the speakers are. You may be screwed if all the house soundman ever mixes is metal bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 22, 2012 Members Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hard to tell from the picture if the gear is crap or not. If you talk to the soundman ask what the speakers are. You may be screwed if all the house soundman ever mixes is metal bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 22, 2012 Members Share Posted December 22, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Hard to tell from the picture if the gear is crap or not. If you talk to the soundman ask what the speakers are. You may be screwed if all the house soundman ever mixes is metal bands. Exactly my thought. Good chance vocals will be very low in the mix if sound man isn't changing gains to match singers that don't scream into the mic. Why I suggested getting bass out of the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 22, 2012 Members Share Posted December 22, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Hard to tell from the picture if the gear is crap or not. If you talk to the soundman ask what the speakers are. You may be screwed if all the house soundman ever mixes is metal bands. Exactly my thought. Good chance vocals will be very low in the mix if sound man isn't changing gains to match singers that don't scream into the mic. Why I suggested getting bass out of the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 22, 2012 Members Share Posted December 22, 2012 Originally Posted by wades_keys Exactly my thought. Good chance vocals will be very low in the mix if sound man isn't changing gains to match singers that don't scream into the mic. Why I suggested getting bass out of the PA. I would imagine it could get very loud. It just may sound bad. Taking the bass out of the PA is a bad idea IMO. The PA isn't for vocals only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 22, 2012 Members Share Posted December 22, 2012 Originally Posted by wades_keys Exactly my thought. Good chance vocals will be very low in the mix if sound man isn't changing gains to match singers that don't scream into the mic. Why I suggested getting bass out of the PA. I would imagine it could get very loud. It just may sound bad. Taking the bass out of the PA is a bad idea IMO. The PA isn't for vocals only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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