Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Appreciate all the reassuring responses . . . seriously. I'm not used to playing keys DI. Why keys, but not guitar? (this is sweet soul music, remember. Not R&R.) DI for keys is pretty SOP on big pro run stages. It will be fine. Guitars tend to get their tone from a guitar amp. Keys just need to have the sound the keyboardboard makes reproduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Appreciate all the reassuring responses . . . seriously. I'm not used to playing keys DI. Why keys, but not guitar? (this is sweet soul music, remember. Not R&R.) DI for keys is pretty SOP on big pro run stages. It will be fine. Guitars tend to get their tone from a guitar amp. Keys just need to have the sound the keyboardboard makes reproduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Appreciate all the reassuring responses . . . seriously. I'm not used to playing keys DI. Why keys, but not guitar? (this is sweet soul music, remember. Not R&R.) Just isn't common practice for guitarists to go DI. I'm sure that for any guitarist that wanted to, that they could easily accomodate hat. They are probably going to want to run your keys DI regardless. They aren't going to mic your amp unless there's no other way to get a signal from you. If you have a mixer they'll probably look for an unused output. If you run a single keyboard direct into your amp, they'll probably have a splitter box for you to plug into so you can send your signal to your amp and they can get a line from you as well. But that's separate from you having your own amp on stage for hearing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Appreciate all the reassuring responses . . . seriously. I'm not used to playing keys DI. Why keys, but not guitar? (this is sweet soul music, remember. Not R&R.) Just isn't common practice for guitarists to go DI. I'm sure that for any guitarist that wanted to, that they could easily accomodate hat. They are probably going to want to run your keys DI regardless. They aren't going to mic your amp unless there's no other way to get a signal from you. If you have a mixer they'll probably look for an unused output. If you run a single keyboard direct into your amp, they'll probably have a splitter box for you to plug into so you can send your signal to your amp and they can get a line from you as well. But that's separate from you having your own amp on stage for hearing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS DI for keys is pretty SOP on big pro run stages. It will be fine. Guitars tend to get their tone from a guitar amp. Keys just need to have the sound the keyboardboard makes reproduced. I am aware of that, but I'm reluctant to have someone who's never heard us decide where I sit in the mix. I'm way back in some songs and drive others. Of course, having my own amp doesn't necessarily prevent that from happening if I'm also going through the board. I'm going from a single board to a Boss pedal to a powered speaker. The XLR out from that could go to the board, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS DI for keys is pretty SOP on big pro run stages. It will be fine. Guitars tend to get their tone from a guitar amp. Keys just need to have the sound the keyboardboard makes reproduced. I am aware of that, but I'm reluctant to have someone who's never heard us decide where I sit in the mix. I'm way back in some songs and drive others. Of course, having my own amp doesn't necessarily prevent that from happening if I'm also going through the board. I'm going from a single board to a Boss pedal to a powered speaker. The XLR out from that could go to the board, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I am aware of that, but I'm reluctant to have someone who's never heard us decide where I sit in the mix. I'm way back in some songs and drive others. Of course, having my own amp doesn't necessarily prevent that from happening if I'm also going through the board. I'm going from a single board to a Boss pedal to a powered speaker. The XLR out from that could go to the board, no? Typicall i would say yes , but you can run into phantom power issues from the board with your passive send with the keyboard amp. If i were you , i would just hand the soundmen your cable from your board and relax. You got 12 minutes. It will be fine ,,You have a volume knob on your board. Use it. If you seem too loud in your monitor turn down,, If you are not loud enough turn it up. Let the sound men deal with the FOH> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I am aware of that, but I'm reluctant to have someone who's never heard us decide where I sit in the mix. I'm way back in some songs and drive others. Of course, having my own amp doesn't necessarily prevent that from happening if I'm also going through the board. I'm going from a single board to a Boss pedal to a powered speaker. The XLR out from that could go to the board, no? Typicall i would say yes , but you can run into phantom power issues from the board with your passive send with the keyboard amp. If i were you , i would just hand the soundmen your cable from your board and relax. You got 12 minutes. It will be fine ,,You have a volume knob on your board. Use it. If you seem too loud in your monitor turn down,, If you are not loud enough turn it up. Let the sound men deal with the FOH> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I am aware of that, but I'm reluctant to have someone who's never heard us decide where I sit in the mix. I'm way back in some songs and drive others. Of course, having my own amp doesn't necessarily prevent that from happening if I'm also going through the board. Welcome to the world of dealing with soundmen. Yes, you'll still set your own levels either way and yes, the sound guy can decide to do things diffferently out front. You could try telling him you'd rather not go through the PA at all and just rely on your stage volume and see what they say. From the looks of the size of the room, I'm not sure that'd be a good idea though. And you'd still have to deal with the fact that if the guitar and other instruments are going through the PA, you'll still have limited control over the mix. At some point, you just have to hand over the reigns and hope for the best. Especially at a short gig like this. I deal with "my keyboards in the mix" issues with my REGULAR sound guys all the time. When you're using whoever-is-there? Really, you just gotta pray they don't {censored} you too badly. Best to not think about it and just concentrate on playing. Tough situation for control freaks...lol I'm going from a single board to a Boss pedal to a powered speaker. The XLR out from that could go to the board, no? Yes. They can just jack right into the back of the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I am aware of that, but I'm reluctant to have someone who's never heard us decide where I sit in the mix. I'm way back in some songs and drive others. Of course, having my own amp doesn't necessarily prevent that from happening if I'm also going through the board. Welcome to the world of dealing with soundmen. Yes, you'll still set your own levels either way and yes, the sound guy can decide to do things diffferently out front. You could try telling him you'd rather not go through the PA at all and just rely on your stage volume and see what they say. From the looks of the size of the room, I'm not sure that'd be a good idea though. And you'd still have to deal with the fact that if the guitar and other instruments are going through the PA, you'll still have limited control over the mix. At some point, you just have to hand over the reigns and hope for the best. Especially at a short gig like this. I deal with "my keyboards in the mix" issues with my REGULAR sound guys all the time. When you're using whoever-is-there? Really, you just gotta pray they don't {censored} you too badly. Best to not think about it and just concentrate on playing. Tough situation for control freaks...lol I'm going from a single board to a Boss pedal to a powered speaker. The XLR out from that could go to the board, no? Yes. They can just jack right into the back of the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THX1138 Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Did a few situations like this years ago. Just from my personal experience, a few tips...Be courteous and professionalWork with the soundman, not against himDont expect any Rockstar treatmentGet your equipment together and be ready to GO GO GOWhen you're done, don't dick around. MOVEThe thing that a lot of bands don't seem to get in these situations, is the Soundman/crew have a LOOOONG event to deal with. They're not out to screw you, but they wont be going out of their way to accomodate your every need either. It's a LOT of work running a show like this. Some are pro and set up to handle it. Some only care about their next pot break. What they all have in common though, is not losing any sleep worrying about your tone, personal monitor mixes, or artistic aura. They want it to go as smoothly and efficiently as possible.If he hands you a DI - shuttup and plug in."We need our snare mic'd top and bottom" - Shuttup n hit it."Can I get more crispies in my monitor?" - Can you hear it? Shuttup15 minutes to get one off and another on. It's not going to be perfection. Just be professional, do you your thing, trust front of house to do theirs, and kick ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THX1138 Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Did a few situations like this years ago. Just from my personal experience, a few tips...Be courteous and professionalWork with the soundman, not against himDont expect any Rockstar treatmentGet your equipment together and be ready to GO GO GOWhen you're done, don't dick around. MOVEThe thing that a lot of bands don't seem to get in these situations, is the Soundman/crew have a LOOOONG event to deal with. They're not out to screw you, but they wont be going out of their way to accomodate your every need either. It's a LOT of work running a show like this. Some are pro and set up to handle it. Some only care about their next pot break. What they all have in common though, is not losing any sleep worrying about your tone, personal monitor mixes, or artistic aura. They want it to go as smoothly and efficiently as possible.If he hands you a DI - shuttup and plug in."We need our snare mic'd top and bottom" - Shuttup n hit it."Can I get more crispies in my monitor?" - Can you hear it? Shuttup15 minutes to get one off and another on. It's not going to be perfection. Just be professional, do you your thing, trust front of house to do theirs, and kick ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 The size and number of those speakers is what prompted this thread. I suspect we'll ALL be going through the board, one way or another. Hopefully, I'll get a good recording out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 The size and number of those speakers is what prompted this thread. I suspect we'll ALL be going through the board, one way or another. Hopefully, I'll get a good recording out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Welcome to the world of dealing with soundmen. Yes, you'll still set your own levels either way and yes, the sound guy can decide to do things diffferently out front. You could try telling him you'd rather not go through the PA at all and just rely on your stage volume and see what they say. From the looks of the size of the room, I'm not sure that'd be a good idea though. And you'd still have to deal with the fact that if the guitar and other instruments are going through the PA, you'll still have limited control over the mix. At some point, you just have to hand over the reigns and hope for the best. Especially at a short gig like this. I deal with "my keyboards in the mix" issues with my REGULAR sound guys all the time. When you're using whoever-is-there? Really, you just gotta pray they don't {censored} you too badly. Best to not think about it and just concentrate on playing. Tough situation for control freaks...lol Yes. They can just jack right into the back of the speaker.[/QUOTE] Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Welcome to the world of dealing with soundmen. Yes, you'll still set your own levels either way and yes, the sound guy can decide to do things diffferently out front. You could try telling him you'd rather not go through the PA at all and just rely on your stage volume and see what they say. From the looks of the size of the room, I'm not sure that'd be a good idea though. And you'd still have to deal with the fact that if the guitar and other instruments are going through the PA, you'll still have limited control over the mix. At some point, you just have to hand over the reigns and hope for the best. Especially at a short gig like this. I deal with "my keyboards in the mix" issues with my REGULAR sound guys all the time. When you're using whoever-is-there? Really, you just gotta pray they don't {censored} you too badly. Best to not think about it and just concentrate on playing. Tough situation for control freaks...lol Yes. They can just jack right into the back of the speaker.[/QUOTE] Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Phantom power would be a board issue. But I would hope these sound guys know their gear well enough to know the best way to hook up the keys. They might just want to split the signal before it gets to the speaker. Simple enough and they should have the gear if they do this stuff a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Phantom power would be a board issue. But I would hope these sound guys know their gear well enough to know the best way to hook up the keys. They might just want to split the signal before it gets to the speaker. Simple enough and they should have the gear if they do this stuff a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Phantom power would be a mixing board issue. But I would hope these sound guys know their gear well enough to know the best way to hook up the keys. They might just want to split the signal before it gets to the speaker. Simple enough and they should have the gear if they do this stuff a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Phantom power would be a mixing board issue. But I would hope these sound guys know their gear well enough to know the best way to hook up the keys. They might just want to split the signal before it gets to the speaker. Simple enough and they should have the gear if they do this stuff a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Phantom power would be a mixing board issue. But I would hope these sound guys know their gear well enough to know the best way to hook up the keys. They might just want to split the signal before it gets to the speaker. Simple enough and they should have the gear if they do this stuff a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its not always that simple. I can do it with my VR700,,, my Stage piano runs into issues when you try to do that. Had a long talk with mackie about it. The discussion was about useing a mackie 450 as a keyboard amp and then going passive to the board. They said to the best of their knowledge it was a phantom power issue. Its not the speaker and its not the board.. so I tend to go with their opinon since both the board and the powered speaker is their gear. Phantom power would be a mixing board issue. But I would hope these sound guys know their gear well enough to know the best way to hook up the keys. They might just want to split the signal before it gets to the speaker. Simple enough and they should have the gear if they do this stuff a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by THX1138 Did a few situations like this years ago. Just from my personal experience, a few tips... Be courteous and professional Work with the soundman, not against him Dont expect any Rockstar treatment Get your equipment together and be ready to GO GO GO When you're done, don't dick around. MOVE The thing that a lot of bands don't seem to get in these situations, is the Soundman/crew have a LOOOONG event to deal with. They're not out to screw you, but they wont be going out of their way to accomodate your every need either. It's a LOT of work running a show like this. Some are pro and set up to handle it. Some only care about their next pot break. What they all have in common though, is not losing any sleep worrying about your tone, personal monitor mixes, or artistic aura. They want it to go as smoothly and efficiently as possible. If he hands you a DI - shuttup and plug in. "We need our snare mic'd top and bottom" - Shuttup n hit it. "Can I get more crispies in my monitor?" - Can you hear it? Shuttup 15 minutes to get one off and another on. It's not going to be perfection. Just be professional, do you your thing, trust front of house to do theirs, and kick ass. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by THX1138 Did a few situations like this years ago. Just from my personal experience, a few tips... Be courteous and professional Work with the soundman, not against him Dont expect any Rockstar treatment Get your equipment together and be ready to GO GO GO When you're done, don't dick around. MOVE The thing that a lot of bands don't seem to get in these situations, is the Soundman/crew have a LOOOONG event to deal with. They're not out to screw you, but they wont be going out of their way to accomodate your every need either. It's a LOT of work running a show like this. Some are pro and set up to handle it. Some only care about their next pot break. What they all have in common though, is not losing any sleep worrying about your tone, personal monitor mixes, or artistic aura. They want it to go as smoothly and efficiently as possible. If he hands you a DI - shuttup and plug in. "We need our snare mic'd top and bottom" - Shuttup n hit it. "Can I get more crispies in my monitor?" - Can you hear it? Shuttup 15 minutes to get one off and another on. It's not going to be perfection. Just be professional, do you your thing, trust front of house to do theirs, and kick ass. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 You could try telling him you'd rather not go through the PA at all and just rely on your stage volume and see what they say. From the looks of the size of the room, I'm not sure that'd be a good idea though. It would not be a good idea, and as a sound guy I take this attitude as kind of a pretentious dick move on the part of the talent, highlighting how little they actually know about what it takes to get a balanced sound on an amplified stage. The VAST majority of times I've acquiesced to the talent in these situations, I've come to regret it (including having a Tony-winning composer chiding me for it when engineering a production of his musical). You telling me that I don't need a keyboard (or any other instrument) feed out front would be like me telling you that you don't need a certain octave or patch on your keyboard. IOW, I'll let you make your decisions; you let me make mine. This isn't rocket science and any sound guy who's not an idiot will be able to hear that the keys need to be louder or softer in parts and adjust accordingly. Or better yet, adjust your playing accordingly so he doesn't have to do anything. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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