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[IsildursBane]

Originally posted by tlbonehead Actually,the 800's are a fairly compact sub. I was thinking they had some sort of kick-back casters on them but its been a little while since I've been around them. If not,you could just throw a pair of pocket casters on the bottom backside. They work really well.

 

 

Yeah, they've got casters on them. I'm just whining more than anything, but they're so short that I have to bend over really far to reach the handle. It'd be great if they had a pull-up handle like big suitcases.

 

-Dan.

[ned911]

Off weekends (especially 3-dayers) can be good. We went to both the high end (pay wise) venues are booked or have played this weekend.

This first one we have already played once and currently have 2 more dates scheduled. The band Friday night was incredible, playing mostly 80's hair band rock. Their PA was silly huge, 6 folded subs (2 per side and 2 in the middle) with 2 2x15+horn mains stacked on top. The only brand I could see was on the mains (LA). Didn't get a chance to see their amp rack but this is one of the highest paid cover bands in Texas.

Saturday night we headed over to the outdoor venue we will be playing in 3 weeks. I think because it was outside (patio) and having the booking agent throw the fear of God into us about sound had me more nervous than I needed to be. For this gig we probably don't need to add anything. The band last night (who were drunk by second set) had 2 18" subs and a pair of 2x15+horn mains (this seems to be popular setup).

So it looks like another LS700P will cover us and rent U15's for the bigger venue. Will probably get a longer snake from EWI as well.

Appreciate all the input.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by ned911 Off weekends (especially 3-dayers) can be good. We went to both the high end (pay wise) venues are booked or have played this weekend. This first one we have already played once and currently have 2 more dates scheduled. The band Friday night was incredible, playing mostly 80's hair band rock. Their PA was silly huge, 6 folded subs (2 per side and 2 in the middle) with 2 2x15+horn mains stacked on top. The only brand I could see was on the mains (LA). Didn't get a chance to see their amp rack but this is one of the highest paid cover bands in Texas. Saturday night we headed over to the outdoor venue we will be playing in 3 weeks. I think because it was outside (patio) and having the booking agent throw the fear of God into us about sound had me more nervous than I needed to be. For this gig we probably don't need to add anything. The band last night (who were drunk by second set) had 2 18" subs and a pair of 2x15+horn mains (this seems to be popular setup). So it looks like another LS700P will cover us and rent U15's for the bigger venue. Will probably get a longer snake from EWI as well. Appreciate all the input.

Your Peavey top cabs should be fine. I don't see a significant upgrade going from an SP5 to the Yorkies mentioned. I'd concentrate on more sub coverage. Even 2 700's isn't a lot but it is better than one. Try putting them together in the middle of the stage to maximize their capability. I do that outdoors with our subs and it does make a difference. www.dastormdogs.com

[Audiopyle Sound]

Originally posted by tlbonehead Your Peavey top cabs should be fine. I don't see a significant upgrade going from an SP5 to the Yorkies mentioned.

 

 

SP5 vs. U15? Excuse meeee...

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound SP5 vs. U15? Excuse meeee...

You're excused.

[ned911]

Wouldn't the U15's be louder just from the ability to push 2-3X the wattage through them?

Not to mention 3way versus 2way.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by ned911 Wouldn't the U15's be louder just from the ability to push 2-3X the wattage through them? Not to mention 3way versus 2way.

Actually,I was thinking SP2,not SP5. But even an SP5 should handle 300-350 watts. I' certainly wouldn't put more then 500-600 watts into any top cab,regardless of what the rating is. And the SP is pretty efficient,probably pretty close to the Yorkie. Not as smooth or as clear,but you can probably smooth it out pretty well with a good ear and a little EQ'ing. As far as 2 vs 3 way,the design itself doesn't necessarily mean more volume. Anyway,whay I really meant was that even with a pair of the small Yorkie subs,low-end coverage is still going to be the main issue. Going to bigger/better/louder top cabs and neglecting the bottom frequencies only makes your system more lopsided. That was my main point.

[Audiopyle Sound]

The 800 watt program rating of the U15 is conservative, normal with Yorkville. Most people I know who run the U15s passive are powering them with something like a PLX3402 (1100 - 1200 watts), one cabinet per channel.

Without considering the output level, I owned SP5s in the past and there is a big difference in the sound.

[Al Poulin]

 

Originally posted by ned911 Wouldn't the U15's be louder just from the ability to push 2-3X the wattage through them? Not to mention 3way versus 2way.

 

 

 

The U15 handles 800 watts program which is basically equal to the SP5 or SP2's program power handling (new models are 800 watts SP5 and 1000 watts SP2). Given similar efficiency specs for all cabs (between 98-100 DB with 1 watt) maximum output levels should be similar. (For the record, the SP2 is the higher end cab between the 2 peaveys - Black Widow loaded vs. Scorpion in the SP5). The U15 is about twice the price per pair as the Peaveys but won't get you more sound. You're paying extra for a patented combined horn/midrange driver featuring 3 mid frequency speakers + 1 horn firing in unison from the same point (one source) What the U15 will give you is way less distortion at high output levels because the 4 speakers in that mid/high horn are significantly padded down and running substantially below the levels they are capable of. Maybe some U15 users will chime in to tell you if there are other advantages to this cabinet. The 4ohm rating will get most from most amplifiers if you are only running one pair. I hope one day my dealer brings a set in. I would love to hear them. I imagine vocal reproduction would be excellent.... Best of luck, Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound The 800 watt program rating of the U15 is conservative, normal with Yorkville. Most people I know who run the U15s passive are powering them with something like a PLX3402 (1100 - 1200 watts), one cabinet per channel. Without considering the output level, I owned SP5s in the past and there is a big difference in the sound.

That's nuts if they aren't buttoned down really well and/or if there is a novice at the helm. I don't care what the rating might be,if you need to put more than 500-600 watts into a speaker to get enough clean volume,you should make more room in the truck/trailer for more speakers. JMO

[agedhorse]

Originally posted by tlbonehead That's nuts if they aren't buttoned down really well and/or if there is a novice at the helm. I don't care what the rating might be,if you need to put more than 500-600 watts into a speaker to get enough clean volume,you should make more room in the truck/trailer for more speakers. JMO

 

Absolutely;)

[Al Poulin]

 

Originally posted by tlbonehead That's nuts if they aren't buttoned down really well and/or if there is a novice at the helm. I don't care what the rating might be,if you need to put more than 500-600 watts into a speaker to get enough clean volume,you should make more room in the truck/trailer for more speakers. JMO

 

 

 

This speaker has 98DB efficiency. Applying 800 watts to it is theoretically the same as applying 400 watts to a 101DB efficient speaker. If a more sensitive woofer had been used, the mid/high horn would have been padded down less and less power would have been needed to reach the speakers maximum SPL...

[Audiopyle Sound]

Originally posted by tlbonehead That's nuts if they aren't buttoned down really well and/or if there is a novice at the helm. I don't care what the rating might be,if you need to put more than 500-600 watts into a speaker to get enough clean volume,you should make more room in the truck/trailer for more speakers. JMO

 

 

Well. Thank you. That simplifies things.

 

I will write a letter immediately to QSC,and cc Crown et al, to advise them that we will no longer be needing any amplifiers capable of putting out more than 500- 600 watts.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound Well. Thank you. That simplifies things. I will write a letter immediately to QSC,and cc Crown et al, to advise them that we will no longer be needing any amplifiers capable of putting out more than 500- 600 watts.

I see. I don't quite get your idea behing this sarcasm. I believe you are aware that there are actually cabs out there with multiple drivers for handling more power.

[ned911]

To get back on track...

I grabbed a used PLX2402 today for a song. Probably throw it in our small show rack where we run the SP5's and monitors off the same amp.

Back to the sub discussion.

At this point would I be better off with 1 2x18" sub or 2 LS700P's for the larger venues? Thinking PV SP218 or JBL MRX528. The 2 Yorkies have more total speaker area (40" vs. 36") but I'm thinking the 2x18"s would actually push more air. Next step would be to get another 2x18 sub if that is the decision.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by ned911 To get back on track... I grabbed a used PLX2402 today for a song. Probably throw it in our small show rack where we run the SP5's and monitors off the same amp. Back to the sub discussion. At this point would I be better off with 1 2x18" sub or 2 LS700P's for the larger venues? Thinking PV SP218 or JBL MRX528. The 2 Yorkies have more total speaker area (40" vs. 36") but I'm thinking the 2x18"s would actually push more air. Next step would be to get another 2x18 sub if that is the decision.

You can't just add up the total speaker diameters for area. You have to actually figure the area of each cone and then multiply by the number of cones. In this case 4 x 10"s = 314 square inches. 2 X 18"s = 509 square inches. So in that scenerio,the 18" win by quite a bit. And since neither is a horn type of cab,you don't have that to consider.

[drumstix]

I cant say Ive heard any other 2x18 boxes other than the 728. I do know that the Peavey QW218 (not sure if thats the correct model #) won a sub shootout over on the prosoundweb boards last year. I have know idea what the other boxes was. Ive seen multiple recommendations for this box many times, I think the price isnt bad either. For your smaller shows 1-2 LS700s are great, for a bigger outdoor show, that dual 18" box will really move some air and get the kick drum in your chest. Im considering looking at these too. I dont know if the TRX dual 18" is worth looking at, if it sounds good that would be another inexspensive sub.

[agedhorse]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound Well. Thank you. That simplifies things. I will write a letter immediately to QSC,and cc Crown et al, to advise them that we will no longer be needing any amplifiers capable of putting out more than 500- 600 watts.

The obviously you haven't been in the service end of this industry. If you saw as much damage as I have over the years, you would wish this very thing. That's why powered speakers are becoming so popular at the higher end of the market. This is where real engineers who KNOW whatthe limitations are in the products can taylor the power vs. time vs. frequency curves more precicely to maximize performance while limiting the liklihood for failure.

Somewhere on the order of 600 watts per driver is a good maximum power target (IME) for the average to somewhat advanced user. That would equate to 2400 watts per channel at 2 ohms... so I just don't get where you are coming from.

The biggest problem is that damn bridge switch. Seems the idiots are the ones most likely to use it. Notice that QSC has eliminated it on many of their new models:thu:

[edit for math error... ]

[Audiopyle Sound]

Originally posted by agedhorse Somewhere on the order of 600 watts per driver is a good maximum power target (IME) for the average to somewhat advanced user. That would equate to 2400 watts per channel at 4 ohms... so I just don't get where you are coming from.

 

 

Agedhorse,

 

The U15 is a three way cab with one 15" woofer, 3 - 5" midrange drivers and a 1" exit compression driver. In passive mode, the cabinet is rated at 800 watts program. When bi-amped, the program rating of the woofer is 800 watts @ 4 ohms. The program rating of the mid/high section is 200 watts @ 8 ohms. Yorkville has stated that the mid/high section is capable of handling far more power, but is already padded 7 dB to match the output of the woofer.

 

The PLX3402 is rated to deliver 1100 watts per channel @ 4 ohms, and in my experience is a perfect match for the U15 cabinet. Other regular U15 users have the same opinion.

 

Yorkville's systems literature recommends their AP4040 amp, rated at 1200 watts per channel @ 4 ohms.

 

tlbonehead,

 

You are right about the sarcasm being un-necessary. Sorry.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound Agedhorse, The U15 is a three way cab with one 15" woofer, 3 - 5" midrange drivers and a 1" exit compression driver. In passive mode, the cabinet is rated at 800 watts program. When bi-amped, the program rating of the woofer is 800 watts @ 4 ohms. The program rating of the mid/high section is 200 watts @ 8 ohms. Yorkville has stated that the mid/high section is capable of handling far more power, but is already padded 7 dB to match the output of the woofer. The PLX3402 is rated to deliver 1100 watts per channel @ 4 ohms, and in my experience is a perfect match for the U15 cabinet. Other regular U15 users have the same opinion. Yorkville's systems literature recommends their AP4040 amp, rated at 1200 watts per channel @ 4 ohms. tlbonehead, You are right about the sarcasm being un-necessary. Sorry.

Don't worry about me. No problems here as far as the sarcasm. I just think that what you can do as far as maximizing a speaker and amplification with all the right additions and lots of knowledge vs having someone who is a complete novice and won't have any "buttoning down" stuff in the chain,perhaps not even engaging the limiters on the amp, should be two very different things. And I would never,under any circumstances,give those cabs more than their program rating. Lets put it this way,would you feel comfortable lending out those speakers along with that much power to some high-schoolers who had barely even run a small powered mixer at practice? I just think we should be more cautious,not only about recommendations,but also should consider who we are giving the recommdations to,when making any recommendations.

[agedhorse]

With power compression, 800 watts to the LF section would be around the point of diminishing returns so I don't see the real benefit while I do see potential reliability issues.

Under reasonable use, I don't think 1100 watts is a problem, but you get folks that are not reasonable and it will be easier to damage the LF section anyway with that much power. IME anyway.

[Craig Vecchione]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound Yorkville's systems literature recommends their AP4040 amp, rated at 1200 watts per channel @ 4 ohms.

 

 

 

I can't find this. Where do they state it? Their spec sheet shows 800w as recommended fullrange and LF power.

 

The U-15P uses a 600w LF amp, and 150w amps for MF and HF.

 

I would be inclined to do what they do, not what they say.

[Audiopyle Sound]

Originally posted by Craigv I can't find this. Where do they state it? Their spec sheet shows 800w as recommended fullrange and LF power.

 

 

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=36&cat=52&id=319

 

and

 

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=36&cat=52&id=320

[Craig Vecchione]

Originally posted by Audiopyle Sound http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=36&cat=52&id=319 and http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=36&cat=52&id=320

 

 

Thanks.

 

You've got to wonder why they would recommend double the power they use in the powered version. As Andy wrote, it's well past the point where power compression negates any useful gain in output, let alone the increase in distortion.

[agedhorse]

The best advice is to look towards what they actually do in their powered versions. JBL powers their MP-418 considerably less than their literature "suggests" is possible.