The Portable PA & the Solo Performer

[Keithos28]

boseengineer,

many thanks again for your reply, the entire science of producing LIVE sound with speakers, Mics, Mixers, PA cabs, Power amps, Power Mixers, Signal Processors and Wireless Mic systems is quite a challenge and has been [and is] an on-going education. I now have alot more respect for the sound engineers that work the systems at those large indoor and outdoor concerts.

[zippo]

saw this today....

http://www.collinsamerica.com/page2/page2.html

[adieste@bigvall]

Boseengineer

You mentioned you are in a 10 piece R&B band (EWF-TOP-Motown), which is EXACTLY what I'm currently doing, as well as my own separate projects. I'd like to pick your brain a bit, but not waste everyone else's time, nor the website's bandwidth ... please send me a PM ... thanks!

Al
adieste@bigvalley.net

PS: I played a series of gigs last May in Mazatlan with the Bose tower in an open-air retaurant, and was quite impressed!

[sventvkg]

The Bose unit is nice and I have used the Model 1 and 2. Would rather have the 2 but for my wants nowadays it's too big. Any way you slice it. I need something small like an AER, Acoustic Image, etc..Very clean, and hifi sounding, nice headroom and sound, small and light. The Bose system is too much money in my opinion as well and the Tonematch engine while, cool is menu driven and takes a sec to get in there and tweak should you need to on the fly and you will. Trust me. The Bose are nice sounding units but Not small, not that light and expensive. I guess it depends on your needs/wants.

[sventvkg]

saw this today.... http://www.collinsamerica.com/page2/page2.html

 

 

Looks like the guy who was on the forums saying that Fishman had basically stolen his Idea that he helped them to design for the Soloamp. Said they changed it, made it heavier, bigger and {censored}tier etc. Said he would have his own version of it out by the fall that it would be around this price and would outperform the Fishman. If it does come out, i'm going to buy it just to test it out. It's got a 30 day money back guarantee so what the hell. A bunch of us should check it out and do head to head shootouts with the Soloamp. I'm down. Anyone with me?

[zippo]

Are you saying you are going to buy both and test them yourself?
Or are you saying you will buy one and try to find someone in your
city to pair up with for a shootout?
That of course would be great!

I think one of the magazines or sites should do a really comprehensive article
on portable pas. I know it's been covered before, but what if you covered
EVERYTHING you could round up? A really comprehensive survey.
Heck, I'll write it if someone wants to sponser it.


As i predicted ( ahem ) the bagamp has already crept up in price.

I'm still interested.

I'm also thinking about the Barbetta sona 31 for a one piece full range one hand
solution. On paper it specs out perfectly for me. ( vocals and full range instruments)
I'm a little apprehensive because i'm finding a lot of negative reviews not about the sound but the build quality. Anybody here have an opinion on these?

[Rbts]

Are you saying you are going to buy both and test them yourself? Or are you saying you will buy one and try to find someone in your city to pair up with for a shootout? That of course would be great! I think one of the magazines or sites should do a really comprehensive article on portable pas. I know it's been covered before, but what if you covered EVERYTHING you could round up? A really comprehensive survey. Heck, I'll write it if someone wants to sponser it. As i predicted ( ahem ) the bagamp has already crept up in price. I'm still interested. I'm also thinking about the Barbetta sona 31 for a one piece full range one hand solution. On paper it specs out perfectly for me. ( vocals and full range instruments) I'm a little apprehensive because i'm finding a lot of negative reviews not about the sound but the build quality. Anybody here have an opinion on these?

 

 

Interesting. I came to the Barbetta amp too... one time in looking for something, although I think I was looking at the Soma 41... which is 550 watts into two 10" woofers and a horn... The Barbetta is fine stuff too... even if a little hyped by some true believers.

 

I A/Bed the Barbetta to a Peavey and a Roland keyboard amp... all in the same price range generally, and to be honest, they were all comparable. The Barbetta was also comparable to my Yorkville NX 55P which is also a 550 watt amp... but into a 12" speaker with a woofer.

 

What I have come to believe is that while there certainly is the quest, there actually is not any holy grail. For me there is no reason to get into the esoteric more boutique style units... there are plenty of "just fine" comman name brand units that will fill most any nitche. There is something to having something recognizable for your audience, AND for the repairman when you are taking it in.

 

It is still true that the speaker system is going to have a LOT to do with how your system ends up sounding, and you should get the best one you can figure out how to afford. It does cost a loittle more to get that nice sweet warm sound... but it is so worth it. (That having been said... most of the people who will be listening to you will have been drinking, and they are not going to really care so long as it sounds OK).

[hongaku]

The only problem I have now is that I need a more powerful amp to drive all four. The one I have now is OK but I really need about 600 wpc into 4 ohms to drive all 4 speakers...

 

Howdy, I know this post isn't exactly recent, and that I'm a new member and am about to sound like an idiot with the questions I have; but here goes:

 

When you say 600 watts per channel, are referring to program/continuous watts, or RMS watts?

I'm assuming you're talking program watts to drive the PR's in parallel @ 4 ohms per side?

 

See, I'm considering a similar set up for small venue gigs. I have two PR12's (recently acquired new for $144 each on sale!) and an old Peavey XR684 powered mixer (free hand me down) at the moment; which is fine for the small practice room we're working with. Since the XR684 is only 210 watts RMS per side @ 4 ohms, and the Pr's are 200 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, I have been bridging the channels of the XR684 and daisy chaining the speakers from the mono out. I know this makes a 4 ohm load on a mono output that specifies an 8 ohm minimum load...but it doesn't seem to be screwing anything up yet.

Here's the thing, for a real gig situation (running only vocals in a small venue) I can use the PR12's for monitors and pick up a couple of PR15's for mains; but I'm totally new to how live sound works and I need to find a standalone power amp or powered mixer that mates up with the PR's well and doesn't underpower or overpower them too much.

Does anyone have any info they'd like to share about this most basic of live sound subjects? I'm sorry if I sound like a fool asking about how to properly match loudspeakers with impedance and power ratios, but I simply don't know how to do it.

Thanks in advance for any advice/feedback.

For reference, both the PR12's and PR15's are 8 ohm 200watt RMS (400w program, 800w peak) handling speakers.

[richardmac]

I had to go back and read the original post you quoted. Here's what happened since then.

 

I had a Mackie stereo power amp, about 200 wpc into 8 ohms, or about 300 into 4 ohms. Great for 2 PR speakers, a bit underpowered for 4 of them, like I said. And just like I said, I ended up buying a Yamaha stereo powered mixer - the 312. I can never remember the exact name. It's about 190 wpc into 8 ohms, and about 300 wpc into 4 ohms. It's way way lighter than my Mackie amp, and it beats the hell out of carrying around the Mackie amp and a dedicated Yamaha mixer. So now for indoor gigs I bring a PR 12 and a PR 15 and the Yamaha powered mixer.

 

For outdoor gigs, I can bring the Mackie, too, and drive the PR 12's with the Yamaha and send a stereo out to the Mackie and power the PR 15's with the Mackie. IF I need the extra volume. I played outside not long ago with a buddy, with the pair of PR 15s and a monitor that the buddy brought. It actually sounded fine and we didn't need to crank the Yamaha beyond what it was capable of... but we were on the side of a street, not on a big stage or anything. We did not want to kill people walking by with volume.

 

But it's nice to know that I could use the Mackie if I needed. In my opinion, owning the PR 12's and the PR 15's, you need to send each speaker about 200 watts. More, and the speaker won't sound good. Less, and your amp will distort before the speaker will, and that not only sounds bad, but it's also dangerous for the gear.

[flemmish51]

I recently got a powered mixer, the soundcraft gigrac1000st, 2-PV15's, cords and a pair of stands at guitar center for 900.00 (labor day sale) Running 1 spkr on each side is an 8 ohm load and the gigrac is rated at 300wpc. At 4 ohms the gigrac is rated at 500wpc. Does anyone think I can properly drive 2 PV15's per side and have a good match?
Thanks

[Al Poulin]

 

I recently got a powered mixer, the soundcraft gigrac1000st, 2-PV15's, cords and a pair of stands at guitar center for 900.00 (labor day sale) Running 1 spkr on each side is an 8 ohm load and the gigrac is rated at 300wpc. At 4 ohms the gigrac is rated at 500wpc. Does anyone think I can properly drive 2 PV15's per side and have a good match? Thanks

 

 

 

That should be fine. 250 watts for each PV15 should be just right. Your setup will be slightly louder overall with better low frequency response because of the coupling of the multiple 15'' woofers. Get two PV15s up on stands (one left side and one right side) and two on the floor right below each stand mounted one. This will give you a ''stack'' on each side of the stage with the stand mounted tops sending the sound over people's heads (so people in the back will hear loud and clear) - while the speakers on the floor will increase bass response. Al - Party-Time! DJ Services

[Bill Lewis]

I've been gigging for many years and was constantly trying to get lighter and more portable. I do parties, wedings, restaurants, whatever. I play keys with backround drums and bass, do vocals and also DJ.
Finally got a system I love and it covers 90% of my gigs. A Yamaha EMX 512 power mixer in a hardshell case (all together about 25LBs.) and two Carvin LM12 speakers.(28lbs each) For monitors I use one, sometimes two Peavey Impulses. The system kicks and is very clean. I can't say enough about the Carvins. I think they're fantastic!!! If I get a larger gig (100 + people) I slave my Crate KX220 keyboard amp. For small gigs I just use the Crate. Including Keyboard, DJ stuff, and stands, it all fits nicely into my new Nissan Rogue so I'm saving gas too.

Bill Lewis

[rhat]

I have a couple mackie srm 450s and a little yam mixer with effects. Its a easy set up and would fine for practice and a small bar gigs. Powered speakers on sticks are very popular for bands on the move alot. I know one due that had a couple sets and an extra conga rig. They would have the roadie setting up a gig,, while they were playing an afternoon show. All the gear lived in a trailer. These guys would do two shows a day alot. Keeping things simple was key.

[music central]

I know they are not the cheapest, But I have to give a big heads up to the

ART 10a. If you hav'nt heard these things, TRY TOO. The Bass response

out of these powered 10's is incredible. (think car subs). The horns give

the cleanest vocals I've heard. At 350 real watts each, you can carry one

in each hand. put them on sticks and have 700watts FOH if you need it.

Get a small 4 mic input mixer with some Fx and any single or duo is ready

to go. Yes a bit more money. But the better you sound, the more gigs you

may score. Believe me a pair of these will handle a coffee house gig to a 150

person wedding etc. Regards all.

[ceflint]

In addition to a few weekend gigging bands (30-35 weekends per year), I've been solo gigging since the 70's. I use my portable PA rig for basically 3 different setups. Solo jazz guitar instrumental. Solo rock/blues vocal. Guitar/Bass/Drum Trio with one vocalist.

Solo Jazz Guitar Instrumental
Roland AC-90 with Boss DR-800 drum/bass machine. For larger rooms I'll tie it into a Fender Passport Deluxe PD-250 Portable PA. Very nice setup.

Solo rock/blues vocal
Typically small room stuff. Guitar thru separate amps. Acoustic thru the Roland AC-90. Electric thru a Trademark 60. Vocals and backing tracks thru the Passport.

Trio
Vocals only thru the Passport.

I've used the Passport for a couple of years and like it fine. As I understand, the larger model Passport cabinets were designed by or with Bose. While it wouldn't drive the larger rock or blues bands with higher volumes, for medium size rooms (country club/church halls) it works great for me.

I have also let others use it outside for Christian assemblies with acoustic guitar and vocals without a problem.

I highly recommend the upper 2-3 models of Passport. Their lower end stuff is fine for speaking, but not so much for music.

[RichCT]

I have recently ditched my passive speakers and amp and switched over to a single mackie srm350, which I picked up brand new for $300, and a single yamaha msr100 as a floor monitor. I hook both of these up to a behringer ub1832fx. This setup has served me well and reduced cargo as well as setup time. If I have a good parking spot, I can have everything loaded and live in 20 minutes. I am currently keeping my eyes open for a 2nd mackie srm350 so I can complete my transition. I still use run 2 yamaha BR12m's off a qsc usa850 (275WPC@8ohms) for larger rooms.

[Keithos28]

Trio I highly recommend the upper 2-3 models of Passport. Their lower end stuff is fine for speaking, but not so much for music.

 

 

When you refer to lower end versus upper 2-3 models of passport. Which ones are you referring to?

 

At this time the only ones I am familiar with are:

Fender Passport Deluxe PD-250 Portable PA and the Passport deluxe PD-150 Portable PA

[LinuxMercedes]

While I don't own any PA gear of my own yet (not old enough to make it feasible), I've worked with a couple of systems.

I liked a system that had a pair of JBL 15" powered speakers and a Mackie 8-channel amp, and the Alesis nanoverb. It's an awesome setup for doing keyboard, two acoustic guitars, vocals, etc. The bass can get pretty loud on this system without becoming undefined. It's loud enough to do ~500 seat auditoriums easily.

My church has a pair of Yorkville 15" cabs with some JBL subwoofers. The Yorkvilles sound great (as do the JBLs). IMHO, you probably won't go wrong buying Yorkvilles.

I'd stay away from Kustom stuff...I've used one of their systems (small PA setup) and was not pleased at all with it...it's impossible to make vox and acoustic guitars sound good on.

There's my $0.02

[Keithos28]

Looks like the Fishman Amp is on the move - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCEkOR0dqM4
Shipped out last month......designed for singer/songwriter in mind.
Anybody tried it yet? Should have been in the stores since middle of last month. Do you think they stole any ideas from say 'Bose L1 system'?
I dont believe you can match it against the beautiful sound of the Bose L1 ,
but it is something new and light and very transportable.

[stevejohnson]

I liked a system that had a pair of JBL 15" powered speakers and a Mackie 8-channel amp, and the Alesis nanoverb.I do parties, wedings, restaurants, whatever. I play keys with backround drums and bass, do vocals and also DJ.
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[ceflint]

When you refer to lower end versus upper 2-3 models of passport. Which ones are you referring to? At this time the only ones I am familiar with are: Fender Passport Deluxe PD-250 Portable PA and the Passport deluxe PD-150 Portable PA

 

 

Mine is the PD-250. The PD-150 sounded a little thin to me in the store using it with a Boss DR-880 (which I use for some of the solo jazz stuff).

 

Fender also has a PD-500 and a PD-250 Plus. The 500 offers (as you probably guess) 250 watts per side and couple extra channels. Not sure what the "PLUS" is in the 250Plus.

[jmcountry43]

simple, yamaha mixer w/fx 150 bucks
3 Berienger active 12" Pa speakers 750 bucks
shure sm 58 and mic stand cable ext 100 bucks

this gives you a moniter two mains, mixer w/ 48v phantom power and effects. 8 channels w/ rca jacks as well. I used this for a long time and I could play bars with over 200plus and out door venues. You could get away with two speakers really. one main one moniter.
The speakers are 400watts 300lows and 100highs

If you have some extra cash get shure beta series mic. great sound!
Good luck:lol:

[daklander]

Looks like the Fishman Amp is on the move - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCEkOR0dqM4 Shipped out last month......designed for singer/songwriter in mind. Anybody tried it yet? Should have been in the stores since middle of last month. Do you think they stole any ideas from say 'Bose L1 system'? I dont believe you can match it against the beautiful sound of the Bose L1 , but it is something new and light and very transportable.

 

 

Here's somewhat of a A/B of the two.

[YOUTUBE]bF2Q-fyvLWQ&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[rollerkc]

Quality sound is always tuff to get depending on the venue. You more than likely use a top line guitar and mic, and your material must fit who you are. So don't try to cut corners on your sound system.
In any audio system you need to start with good speakers. I use Yamaha
S115V or S112V(M). I use a Mackie 808M mixer. Lots of power, compact, rich lows, and crisp highs even at low show levels. This system works well for solo shows and also with my band (just ad subs).

[SoundmanLuke]

I'm sure it's been mentioned a few times in the 8 pages of this thread but the Bose L1 is apparently amazing. Obviously more than $1,000 but probably worth kicking out the extra cash for.
I'm actually leaving in a couple weeks for a 43 show Christmas tour using two of the L1 systems all in school gyms. I can't wait to hear this thing for myself and to not have to haul around/set up/troubleshoot/tear down a complete rig 2-3 times a day. Wish Bose made some kind of lighting system that was as easy to use.
I'll more than likely have a review when I get back and we'll see if it really is worth the money.
Rehearsals start next week but that won't compare to a big gym with about 500 kids screaming French Christmas song at the top of their lungs.