The Portable PA & the Solo Performer

[Keithos28]

I have not had exactly the same Anyway, you can get what you need to do the gigs and sound good for less than $1000 - it's very important that you learn how to make whatever you've got work to your advantage, though, in that price range. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people who have no idea what they're doing exploit all the worst things about a small PA system...a problem easily avoided with some listening and some smarts. Brian V.

Brian,

I agree with $1K you can get a good system.
By the way, how many of us buy these systems / mixers and do not read the instructional booklet carefully and learn all the different features. I know I can be guilty sometimes of this; if I feel I know the product [ when I really don't]

Things that I have discovered:
- If you buy a mixer say off of craigslist , then you buy the speakers seperately , then the stands and mics plus cables and mic stands elsewhere you end up spending a considerable amount. And I am talking USED stuff. No one wants to let go of their mixer for anything less than $550 or $500.
- For example: Craigs list has Yorkville M810 $550 and Peavey XR600f (+ two peavey 15s] $499.00

- If one was buying just one item, like say the mixer only , then maybe you're better off buying used.

- But brand new ; Musicians Friend or others; have packages at $999 to $1099, and that includes Mixer, speakers, Spkrs stands, mic stands, cables , mics.

On a side note: The Peavey 8600 Versus the Yamaha EMX512SC....anyone have any thoughts on 'which one is the better?'

thanks again for the input !
Keith

[Aiken Drum]

Anyone have any opinions on this self contained system?
http://www.proaudiostar.com/servlet/the-2080/Alto/Detail

[Keithos28]

Anyone have any opinions on this self contained system? http://www.proaudiostar.com/servlet/the-2080/Alto/Detail

It looks weird ; when you play out with it, if they dont remember you, surely they will remember the PA system.
Do a search on Pocketman, he has some to say on this unit. Check out this:
http://www.performingsongwriter.com/vault/tech/reviews/103_alto.pdf

It appears to be heavy but very self contained ........ does'nt seem be sold by either MF or ZZounds.

[sventvkg]

This is what i'm getting for small gigs. You can get an extension speaker for it as well. It's ULTRA High quality but comes in a little over your $1000 budget but worth a look.

Acoustic Image Corus

[Bugzie]

One of the local cover bands uses the yamaha EMX512 thru a 20 year old pair of Peavey SP2's. PLENTY of volume I think thats 300 WPC at 8 ohms

[Keithos28]

This is what i'm getting for small gigs. You can get an extension speaker for it as well. It's ULTRA High quality but comes in a little over your $1000 budget but worth a look. Acoustic Image Corus

Seems very compact from the reviews ; bassists seem to like it !
interesting ; had never heard of the product until now......

[richardmac]

Thinking about the future is also important. If you ever want to play outdoors where you're supplying the PA, then you don't want to buy a combo amp/speaker system unless you can use it as a monitor as part of an outdoor system. Or if you ever want to expand from solo to band...

 

I was going to buy the EV ZX-1's to replace my Peavey PR 12's and some of the folks here talked me out of it! The comment was made that if I wanted to play outdoors ever, the ZX-1's would suck... the PR 12's would actually do a better job outside. And so I went back and listened to the ZX-1's in a HUGE room, and it was true - they didn't throw sound worth sh*t. I wasn't sure if I was ever going to do an outdoor gig or not, but I listened. And now, on June 20, I've got an outdoor gig scheduled. And there'll be more. So I'm glad I didn't dump the PR 12's. Not that the PR 12's are great speakers - they're not. But they're light and inexpensive and take a pounding. And they throw sound fairly well.

 

Some of the Mackie or JBL (I'm thinking Eon) speakers with built-in amps could be used in a coffee shop and then later as a powered monitor in a bigger PA. Something maybe to think about...

[Keithos28]

And so I went back and listened to the ZX-1's in a HUGE room, and it was true - they didn't throw sound worth sh*t. ..

Buddy of mine ; we're playing around with a PA system [he bought] Mackie 808s and 2 Mackie 303s , last night. Both of us new to the PA environment and here we are looking at the manual and adjusting speaker height plus controls and on and on. Its in his living room so we have an outdoor gig friday , but you know the outdoor is going to be a different setting again. It was overwhelming:confused: to say the least but exciting and interesting at the amount of settings available and attempting to get the right tone.

For me the eventual purchase of a system, is dependent on a couple of things one of which is: Listen to the system you want to get FIRST , either at the store or at a club [ so as to get some sort of idea if this is what you want].
I keep reading various reviews of all types of mixers and speakers but your own ears:cool: is the crucial decider.

[richardmac]

Your ears are the crucial decider, but if you're not a live sound pro, you might not know what to listen for! I didn't. I walked into Sam Ash looking for a small PA system to use while gigging coffee houses and other small places, and the salesman cranked up the ZX-1's connected to the EV subs with 12's in the same line, and I was very impressed with the sound - he had it cranked and those darned little speakers didn't distort even a little bit. And plenty of low end from the 12 inch subs.

 

I was discussing the system and the subs here and I was really surprised by the comments - the ZX-1's wouldn't cut it outdoors, the subs had no real low end. I didn't want to believe it. I'd been impressed! I knew good sound... didn't I?

 

So I decided to go and check out some other speakers. Five minutes listening to a real sub convinced me pretty quickly that I'd forgotten what low end was when I'd heard the EV subs. I literally felt the difference. When I went back and listened to the EV subs again, I realized how lacking they really were. They do a good job for what they are, but they're not going to sound like real subs.

 

The other comment I discussed above. After listening to some higher end speakers with horns designed to project, I went back and listened to the ZX-1's again, and they sounded like little stereo speakers cranked up really loud. True, they did not distort, but... they no longer sounded good to me. It was a really valuable lesson.

 

So I really think that although one should trust one's ears, one should also listen to a lot of different speakers and if you're not a "real" live sound engineer, get opinions from those who are.

[Keithos28]

So I really think that although one should trust one's ears, one should also listen to a lot of different speakers and if you're not a "real" live sound engineer, get opinions from those who are.

 

 

 

Well at least you did your "Homework" first, it takes 'research', some analysis and plenty of listening !

[pikappant82]

I'm about to place an order with MF. I'll be using this for solo acoustic/guitar gigs. Anything from playing in bars/restaurants/coffee shops/private parties/weddings, etc. Country/Rock/Classic Rock.
So for cabs I'm ordering so far is a pair of JBL PRX512M's, a pair of speaker stands.
I'm still up in the air on which mixer to order. I want a small mixer with built-in effects. So I'm down to two: Soundcraft MFX-8 or the Peavey PV10. I realize there is a $269 price difference. Both are backordered right now, both due to be in stock this month. The Soundcraft will probably have better quality effects since it uses lexicon on board. The Peavey has a much better factory warranty and its much cheaper, which means I could use the money I save and buy the Radial JDI direct box.
Other than that, I'll just order a couple of good XLR cables and some good extension cords for the speakers, and also a case for the mixer.

Any suggestions on the mixer or anything else?

[Keithos28]

I bought the new Bose L1 with the T1 tonematch.. Yes its triple your price-range, but before I was always buying new gear and now im happy. I play solo and duo gigs. If its strictly small coffe shop gigs get one powered speaker JBL eon g2, and a cheap small mixer with some onboard efx. You''ll be under a grand, and can always add a second speaker if you go beyond coffee shop gigs.

You know after taking part in a test gig with a :poke:Mackie 808s and :freak:two mackies 303s, [all of which were too LARGE for the solo performer] the more I lean :thu:towards the portable PA systems like the stage PAS or even the BOSE PAS.

Fingerpicker,
let us know what you think of your Bose L1 with T1 tone match !!!!

[richardmac]

For what it's worth - the Bose stuff sounds pretty damn good for acoustic guitar and vocals. I've played through the system many times. But if you're going to use keyboards or any kind of backing tracks, you'll be unhappy with the low end. If you don't play keyboards and don't have backing tracks, you'll probably love the Bose.

 

Which is my way of saying the Bose system sounds good but the low end sucks, even with two bass units.

[Masterofmelody]

Just found this site and it has been very informative. Anyone have any opinions or experience with SRM450's from Mackie? I play in an acoustic duo, both guitars plugged in direct with two mics for vocals. Will the guitars put out a rich acoustic sound at all or will they just sound sort of tinny? I'm figuring they'll do just fine with the vocals. I appreciate any feedback from anyone who wishes to chime in.

MoM

[Rbts]

There are perhaps some other options in that price range that might be a little better... but in the end, those Mackies would probably work just fine for that... especially if you are getting a good deal on them. Good luck.

[Keithos28]

For what it's worth - the Bose stuff sounds pretty damn good for acoustic guitar and vocals. I've played through the system many times. But if you're going to use keyboards or any kind of backing tracks, you'll be unhappy with the low end. If you don't play keyboards and don't have backing tracks, you'll probably love the Bose. Which is my way of saying the Bose system sounds good but the low end sucks, even with two bass units.

Acoustic Guitar mag did a review of the Bose L1 recently [http://acousticguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=22619], and from the video [which appears to be done in a recording studio] , it sounds good. I imagine it has an even bigger impact in a wider open space, such as a hall etc. And even though the unit can take more than one musician or instrument at the same time; I do like the part where they say ' Bose recommends that this unit is strictly for the solo musician, and advises that each musician have their own Bose L1'.:poke:

[coyote-1]

I heartily recommend running instruments through one channel and vox through the other. If you need wide coverage, add a pair of speakers. 15s for the instrument channel and 12s for the vox channel. That way, even if the instruments get slightly fuzzy the vox remain clear.

In my opinnion...Kustom is crap. But that is strictly MY opinnion. One thing to add, if you are going to be running keyboard/bass/drums/drum machine through the PA, then I would go with at least 15" 2-way speakers, possibly even a sub. 12" speakers will work, but won't produce a great bass response for those instruments.

 

[richardmac]

I heartily recommend running instruments through one channel and vox through the other. If you need wide coverage, add a pair of speakers. 15s for the instrument channel and 12s for the vox channel. That way, even if the instruments get slightly fuzzy the vox remain clear.

 

 

That's a really interesting idea, and it's one I have not yet tried. My concern would be coverage - If the 15 is on the floor and the 12 is elevated, then I'm thinking you'd be aiming your keyboard/guitar/backing tracks and people's knees. Of course, the way I'm doing it NOW, that's pretty much what I'm doing, but with everything going through the 15 on the floor and the 12 elevated, at least the high end from the instruments is directed properly. If I elevated the 15 too, that would probably work, but space would be a problem.

 

I think I might try out your idea anyway, though... See what it sounds like.

[Keithos28]

And when that day comes, I'll buy the Yamaha mixer/amp combo.

I know you Vigirously support any unit that has a decent 'Low-End',.....what is the Yamaha mixer/amp combo, that you refer to ?

[fingerpicker]

Just a note about the Low-End on the Bose...

Using two gives me more than enough Bass for my acoustic projects. You will need to experiment where you place those little subs. Putting against the wall long ways increases the bass in many situations.

Also I heard a band using three Bose poles. They were LOUD! I was surprised because I hadn't heard several poles used at once. The only complaint was the Bass Player didn't have the Thump I like to hear from a rock band. Could be alot of factors though.

[Keithos28]

One observation....in reading review of several makes of Mixers, it appears that the SPX digital effects that come with the latest Powered Mixers ; [such as reverb, echo,chorus, flanger, phaser and even distortion) are not held in any high esteem.

Here is what one person had to say:

" The built in effects arent very good at all. They sound extreemly weak / cheap and you really need to do some adjusting to get anything out of um. We actually use the Kareoke Echo because the others dont make much of an impact."

Was that a reference to the SPX digital effects? !!!! ?

[agedhorse]

One observation....in reading review of several makes of Mixers, it appears that the SPX digital effects that come with the latest Powered Mixers ; [such as reverb, echo,chorus, flanger, phaser and even distortion) are not held in any high esteem. Here is what one person had to say: Was that a reference to the SPX digital effects? !!!! ?

 

 

That hasn't been my experience at all. I think the effects are quite good for anything in that class of product.

[coyote-1]

Agreed.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I think the effects are quite good for anything in that class of product.

Life is about managing expectations. Of course a dedicated reverb unit that costs $1200 will likely sound better than the 'verb built into a $400 mixer/amp. But that does not mean the reverb in the mixer sucks. Cheap gear today often produces better sound than expensive gear of yesteryear.

[rhat]

Just found this site and it has been very informative. Anyone have any opinions or experience with SRM450's from Mackie? I play in an acoustic duo, both guitars plugged in direct with two mics for vocals. Will the guitars put out a rich acoustic sound at all or will they just sound sort of tinny? I'm figuring they'll do just fine with the vocals. I appreciate any feedback from anyone who wishes to chime in. MoM

 

 

 

I run a keyboard though one as an amp. It sounds great.

[richardmac]

I know you Vigirously support any unit that has a decent 'Low-End',. ....what is the Yamaha mixer/amp combo, that you refer to ?

Ah! I actually bought one this past weekend. I bought the Yamaha EMX 312MG (That's off the top of my head - I think that's the model.)

It's 300 wpc into 4 ohms (stereo) and it has compression on the first 4 channels. Weighs like 20 pounds or so - I'm VERY happy with it. Sounds just as good as my Mackie rack mount power amp did but weighs a hell of a lot less. Instead of dragging around the heavy Mackie and the 12 ch Yamaha board I had, I now take the 312 around and it's a joy. And for big gigs, I can use it to power monitors or I can use it and my Mackie to drive my 4 speakers if I need to slay people with volume. The 312 is way more than enough power for a coffee house gig, and would probably be ok for a small outdoor gig, but if I need more volume, like I said, I can use the Mackie too.

I highly recommend the EMX series. Sounds great, does not weigh a lot, compression works great.