$$ for the sound guy...

[sorocknroll]

How much is too much? When are you getting raped by the sound guy?

 

I've paid the sound guy 30% and hated doing that because he's making more than the guys in my band!

 

When should I be putting my foot down. I don't want to insult the guy, but I'm only making so much green here...:confused:

[agedhorse]

Maybe the problem is that the band is not earning enough?

 

I don't go out on any gig (no equipment) for less than $200. Maybe your guy's a bargain?

[VanR]

Is he providing the PA or just mixing the band? If he is providing the PA also he probably will make more than the rest of the band. ( I know one band that is paying the sound guy (he provides the PA too) $250 a night for his services for gigs that they only make $400). If he is just mixing the band on your PA I say an equal share should be enough. (ie: if there are 4 of you you would divide the money by 5 instead of 4)

[Norton666]

A good sound guy aint cheap!

[boomerweps]

Look at the investment in gear used, hauling & setup required. THEN the amount the band makes. A singer may show up with NOTHING invested and barely help haul & set stuff up, yet they usually get a full share. Is THAT fair?

 

A decent sound system usually costs much MORE than all of the instruments used combined. Man, I LOVE when I can just haul drums, set myself up & just play.

 

Boomerweps

[Unalaska]

At teh bottom teirs of bands it can be hard to justify paying the soundguy who isn't there for rehearsals etc more than anyone else. The band makes 300 for 4 people then what? In the under 600 a night scenario I pose these ideas:

 

band owns the gear collectively, band has a friend who is there anyway who has some vague interest in running sound but more for moving equipment, hanging with a beer and talking to girls. Pay him the same cut, maybe even divide it so the PA is another person. Don't expect to make anything on the gear and when the guitarist leaves the band you've lost 2 mics, a monitor, maybe a BBE and a compressor. The next guy to join has to "buy in" and so forth.

 

Hire someone who has a little more interest in running, maybe a kid from the local college with a small PA. Pay him a share and hope that he doesn't find out what others are making for hauling it all and setting it up.

 

Band owns PA, runs it from stage (most logical/economical). Here's the tricky part: who owns it? The band or one member of the band? If the band collectively owns it then who stores it and gets it to the gig?

 

What is the solution? You should play places that pay more so you can hire out and not deal with the BS. I agree, other sound people agree, the band will make more and the people in the band will make more... So?

 

There is never an easy plan, life happens while you're making plans. Just don't cap your ceiling and say that this or that band won't be able to do such and such, have goals and work towards them, like anything in life. If playing guitar was easy there wouldn't be some many DJ's.

 

p

[Coaster]

i own almost every part of the PA my band uses, and i get the same cut as everyone else. why? is that fair?

 

i think so. one guy has the truck ($$$), one guy does the booking/rehearsal space etc. we all do our own part.

 

personally i think it is damn hard to do sound and play at the same time, i'd rather do either one alone than both. i find i have to have a clear distinction between the two and a specific order in which i setup to keep my mind clear enough to play.

[sorocknroll]

Maybe the problem is that the band is not earning enough? I don't go out on any gig (no equipment) for less than $200. Maybe your guy's a bargain?

LOL, no we aren't earning enough...but we're still a young band, so hopefully the big bucks will roll in eventually.

I guess we'll just have to pick and choose which gigs are important enough to spring for the pricey sound guys.

[sorocknroll]

Look at the investment in gear used, hauling & setup required. THEN the amount the band makes. A singer may show up with NOTHING invested and barely help haul & set stuff up, yet they usually get a full share. Is THAT fair? A decent sound system usually costs much MORE than all of the instruments used combined. Man, I LOVE when I can just haul drums, set myself up & just play. Boomerweps

A good singer is also a good frontman is also a good PR guy. He's the voice and face, really, of the band. He needs to be able to sing and rev the crowd, but also be inviting to the fans and shake a lot of hands while the instrumentalists in the band are setting up their drums, tuning guitars, etc. Plus, unless he's a shmuck, he should be helping load and unload. Maybe you need a new vocalist...

[sorocknroll]

i own almost every part of the PA my band uses, and i get the same cut as everyone else. why? is that fair? i think so. one guy has the truck ($$$), one guy does the booking/rehearsal space etc. we all do our own part. personally i think it is damn hard to do sound and play at the same time, i'd rather do either one alone than both. i find i have to have a clear distinction between the two and a specific order in which i setup to keep my mind clear enough to play.

I love this post. You're right. Everyone does their part (or should be, at least).

 

A weak link isn't the guy carrying the least equipment, it's the guy doing the least "work".

[kevinnem]

 

I love this post. You're right. Everyone does their part (or should be, at least). A weak link isn't the guy carrying the least equipment, it's the guy doing the least "work".

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

some serious consideration must be givin to investement in gear, least one guy ends up "holding the bag".

 

If you don't think it is a big deal .. propose at the next meet that everyone kick in 1000$ for new gear, .. or do some work. ---- see how many jump at the 1000$ option.

[Coaster]

well i wont be left 'holding the bag' as i use my pa year round for many other uses besides my band. and i would rather provide my already owned rig instead of a truck or do booking or provide rehearsal space.

 

although you would have a point if i did nothing but be in the band.

[Crownman]

I've done a few gigs where at the end of the night the bands hands their pay directly to me and then has to take some more money out of their pockets to pay me. They knew the price going in and still took the gig for the money they did. I felt kind of bad about it but that was their choice. They took a gig for $225 when they knew I was getting paid $250. Not a wise business decision.

 

Investing 30k in a PA, buying the vehicle to move it around, gas money, and time it takes to setup & tear down. That's a hell of a lot to only get $200 a night.

 

Look at it this way. In a coverband situation which I've been doing for a while this is what the night is like.

 

Show up at the venue around 7-8pm, setup the PA & lights, wait for everybody in the band to get there eventually, quick soundcheck (usually about 20 minutes before start time because we all know how punctual musicians are). Then mix 4 sets from 10:00 to 2:00. Finally able to start tearing down around 2:30 when everyone is finally hearded out of the club. Leave the club around 3:30 - 4am. Finally get home around 5am.

 

So that's 10 hours of time invested. So there's 30k to pay off and still find some money for myself. If I pay myself $15 an hour that leaves $100 to go toward the PA. So if I gig every Friday and Saturday it would take 2.75 years to pay off the pa. And that doesn't take into account upkeep, stuff breaking like bulbs, cables, vehicle problems, gas, ins. etc. So $250 for a night isn't exactly a great deal all the way around. If you had that much time and money invested you'd probably want more than $250 also.

 

The we have the 5 mon band making $500 for the night. Each guy get's $50 and the rest goes to the soundman but they think that's unfair. In my opinion it's unfair to both parties. But most bands don't see it that way.

 

I paid plenty of money to soundguys when i was actually playing more and didn't really like it. But I got good service so I never complained. Once I was on the other end of the deal it became very very apparent why I paid what I paid before and realised that I was really getting much more than I was paying for.

[BillESC]

There really isn't enough money in the "bar band" arena for a professional sound company. Think about it, on the 4th. I put two speakers on a single stick, set up one wireless mic and plugged the events IPod into my mixer.

 

This was for a parade, I loaded in at 9:30 and was home at 11:30 and had $ 400.00 in my pocket.

[sorocknroll]

I respectfully disagree. some serious consideration must be givin to investement in gear, least one guy ends up "holding the bag". If you don't think it is a big deal .. propose at the next meet that everyone kick in 1000$ for new gear, .. or do some work. ---- see how many jump at the 1000$ option.

A person's value doesn't hinge on how much money they spent on equipment.

 

And that's really not the point anyway. If expensive equipment made you more valuable, then guys who know nothing about sound could become the hottest sound guys in the city as long as they have enough available credit.

[abzurd]

It is what it is. If the guy you're using is deemed "too much", then try and find someone else that will do it for less. If your budget is realistic you'll know soon enough. If it is then go check them out at a gig. If the results are acceptable put him in the bucket of folks you'll call. If it's not then put him in the other bucket.

 

It's not rocket science, but it does require some effort and homework on your part. As far as putting your foot down, I think you have the relationship backwards. He's offering services that you need. You can certainly attempt to haggle on the price, but I'd stop short of demanding it be X. Unless the arrangement is that he makes X% of the gross pay, he doesn't, nor should he, care much about what band is making. His price is his to set.

 

Maybe he's a Ford charging a BMW price. Maybe he's a BMW and you only want to pay for, or only need, a Ford. Either way it's on you to figure out your needs, browse the market and test drive a few.

[Special J]

 

There really isn't enough money in the "bar band" arena for a professional sound company. Think about it, on the 4th. I put two speakers on a single stick, set up one wireless mic and plugged the events IPod into my mixer. This was for a parade, I loaded in at 9:30 and was home at 11:30 and had $ 400.00 in my pocket.

 

 

True, for the equivalent of what most guys would bring in for a typical bar band, I would have to charge approximately $1000.

[CHIP ROBERTS]

I paid plenty of money to soundguys when i was actually playing more and didn't really like it. But I got good service so I never complained. Once I was on the other end of the deal it became very very apparent why I paid what I paid before and realised that I was really getting much more than I was paying for.

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DANG! Man, there's just not anything else to say after that!

[kevinnem]

A person's value doesn't hinge on how much money they spent on equipment. And that's really not the point anyway. If expensive equipment made you more valuable, then guys who know nothing about sound could become the hottest sound guys in the city as long as they have enough available credit.

 

man I am givin out a lot of respect these days (ie disagreeing).

 

While you are correct taht a PERSONS worth is not nessicarily linked to the cost of the gear they own, it is intrinsicly linked via thier ablity to supply the gear.

 

If you want to say that each person is equal, then you must count the gear as a seprate issue, and certinly not equal.

 

if you say your guitar player and sound guy are each worth 100$/night, ..how do you account for the fact teh sound guy has 20,000 in gear, and the guitar player has 2000?

 

lastly- there are many a sound guy that are not as good at sound, but have expensive rigs, and DO get the work and charge the money. They are good bussiness people and I bid agenst them all the time.

 

FYI - we generally will not do a gig for less then about $800-$1000, unless it is easy, like Bill mentioned above. Our "large" rig , still no name, starts at about 2500$/day. A tech only will cost you about 350/day.

[Crownman]

 

A person's value doesn't hinge on how much money they spent on equipment. And that's really not the point anyway. If expensive equipment made you more valuable, then guys who know nothing about sound could become the hottest sound guys in the city as long as they have enough available credit.

 

 

It doesn't hinge on what they spend on equipment. HOWEVER, look around. Most of the people that don't know jack usually don't know enough to buy good equipment. They could also have bought the best rig in the world for a bar band, but they still don't know dick and that awsome PA will sound like fried ass.

 

On the other hand, a competant soundperson can usually make a half ass system sound better than you thought it could. BUT, they wouldn't buy low end crap for a PA. There are always exceptions but the majority of the time a nice, well maintained, great sounding rig usually means that the person is competant, knows what their doing, and knows how to pick better equipment and run it.

 

I've had plenty of people call me for a gig and then go ape{censored} when I told them the price. They get pissed and tell me that they know someone that'll do it for half that. My response is usually "Then what the hell did you call me for?" The guy i work with and I get the calls when a band wants to make a geat impression on a club for their first gig. Then once they have gigs booked they pull in a real bottom feeder that'll do it for next to nothing. Then after a few gigs the club tells them it sux and they want to cancel the rest of their gigs. Then I get another call from a guy that doesn't want to lose gigs,

 

Were not some big sound company, but for the gigs we get at the pay level we ask, we have better equipment than most. I have no problem taking less gigs for what comes to the same amount of money in the end. I also have no problem with the knowledge that I won't get called for a ton of gigs but when someone wants tomake a good impression my phone will ring. I can live with that reputation. It may sound like I'm tooting my own horn. I'm not the best guy around, I know that and I'm fine with it. Hell, I've refered bands to other people and they've sent people to me. But I do have the self worth to ask what I think is fair for my services. If that's too much for somone there's always someone else willing to do it cheaper. More power to them

[W. M. Hellinger]

LOL, no we aren't earning enough...but we're still a young band, so hopefully the big bucks will roll in eventually. I guess we'll just have to pick and choose which gigs are important enough to spring for the pricey sound guys.

Yea... you-know... a good soundman costs what a good soundman costs & you can't really negoiate the price you're willing to pay for gas based on what the gig pays that you're driving to.

[RoadRanger]

I guess we'll just have to pick and choose which gigs are important enough to spring for the pricey sound guys.

If you're just playing for fun - sure. If you want to get the better paying gigs and "step it up" do you really want a potential customer to hear you with crap sound? How do you know for sure who's out in the audience?

[VanR]

man I am givin out a lot of respect these days (ie disagreeing). if you say your guitar player and sound guy are each worth 100$/night, ..how do you account for the fact teh sound guy has 20,000 in gear, and the guitar player has 2000?

 

Well I'm a guitar player and I have guitars that cost more than $2000. And amps that cost that much. You shouldn't generalize as if every guitar player doesn't have expensive stuff or every sound guy has $20,000 worth of gear.

[kevinnem]

 

Well I'm a guitar player and I have guitars that cost more than $2000. And amps that cost that much. You shouldn't generalize as if every guitar player doesn't have expensive stuff or every sound guy has $20,000 worth of gear.

 

 

I may have bumped you ego by saying my {censored} is worth more then yours, but it is. Are you bring more then 4 of these $2000 guitars, and 6 of these $2000 to the bar with you ever night? .. I would love to come see your show, if even to see all that cool stuff in 1 place.

 

Generalizations are how we order, and evaluate the world around us, I will not applogies about that.

[fingerpicker]

Book a cover band gig for a band for $225? HIRE a soundguy for $250. This is ridiculous.

If your band cant get a decent wage yet stay at the practice space and get better,and save up for some used gear...