$$ for the sound guy...

[Bugzie]

Everybody has the right to say NO! Most off the gigs I seem to get lately are the type where the band shows up and plugs in and plays. I'm there 6-7 hours and do all the physical labor. They perform 4 sets and drink beer. I generally have about 20k in equiptment. For $300 bucks they are getting a hell of a deal. If they want me to run their equiptment I'll usually do it for a share. In both the money and the fun. But I'm not loading anything! LOL

[Crownman]

Book a cover band gig for a band for $225? HIRE a soundguy for $250. This is ridiculous. If your band cant get a decent wage yet stay at the practice space and get better,and save up for some used gear...

 

 

I completely agree. When I asked them why they did it they said because they wanted to. They were a great band but all had good day jobs. BUT, they let a local booking agent book them in there and she tends to book the lower paying small bars. I told them not to do the gig for that money but they wanted to do it.

 

And to add insult to injury. After they got their pay, handed it diredtly to me, then coughed up another $5 a piece to cover the other $25.... They still had to pay the booking again 10% out of their pockets. Then the manaer on duty decided not to comp the tab that the other manager said would be comped. Oh yea, great night for the guys. To be nice I gave them $10 off the next 5 gigs so that they got that $50 back. They were all real nice guys and friends so I felt bad about that gig.

[W. M. Hellinger]

I'm there 6-7 hours and do all the physical labor. I generally have about 20k in equiptment. For $300 bucks they are getting a hell of a deal.

 

Just a guesstimation, but I'd suspect you're making a net profit of somewhere around $5/hr. after deducting all expenses.

[SpaceNorman]

 

i own almost every part of the PA my band uses, and i get the same cut as everyone else. why? is that fair? i think so. one guy has the truck ($$$), one guy does the booking/rehearsal space etc. we all do our own part.

 

 

I'm with you on this 100%. I own the PA my band users - and get the same cut as well. I actually use it in a couple of projects and it's always the same deal.

 

For the most part I'm all for "same cut" approach because it's with people that I've known and worked with for ages. I'm good with it for the same reasons you are ... everybody makes a some contribution to the band. Some are greater than others - but EVERYBODY contributes. It's one of those situations were folks "give according to their ability" and "take according to their needs".

 

Although I always go the same cut route - I'll be honest, there have been other situations where it's been for completely different reasons. Put simply, in those situations - it's because I didn't want somebody thinking that simply because they made a contribution they had any standing in the conversation about how the PA gets set up or operated. I've run into a few pushy simpletons who seemed to think that because they've kicked in $30 bucks - it's now part theirs. (The $30 contribution was calculated based on a six piece band, a $1500 gig, and the PA being the 7th share).

 

I don't want the "sweat equity" value that my nightly contribution of $12K+ of PA & lights generates - in any way diluted because somebody who just joined the act feels that a $30 contribution in some way evens it all out.

[VanR]

I may have bumped you ego by saying my {censored} is worth more then yours, but it is. Are you bring more then 4 of these $2000 guitars, and 6 of these $2000 to the bar with you ever night? .. I would love to come see your show, if even to see all that cool stuff in 1 place. Generalizations are how we order, and evaluate the world around us, I will not applogies about that.

 

 

It's not necessary for me to bring it. I generally gig with a $352 guitar and homebrewed 8 watt amp. And I didn't ask you to apologize. But to act as if soundmen are the only ones who have any money invested in their stuff is rather disingenuous.

[moody]

It's not necessary for me to bring it. I generally gig with a $352 guitar and homebrewed 8 watt amp. And I didn't ask you to apologize. But to act as if soundmen are the only ones who have any money invested in their stuff is rather disingenuous.

 

 

As mentioned, that was a generalisation - based on averages. Unfortunately an average gig-worthy mixing desk will cost a bit more than your average gig-worthy guitar. A average gig worthy pair of speaker cabinets would be a bit more than your average gig-worthy guitar amp. Of course a guitarist could turn up with 10-15000 worth of gear, but that's not your average.

[agedhorse]

My power distro alone is about $2500. That's before anything else.

My cable package is about $10k.

[slight-return]

 

then guys who know nothing about sound could become the hottest sound guys in the city as long as they have enough available credit.

 

 

In a way - it does happen

 

these are the equipment rental companies

 

That's one of the things, you are really looking at a compound job

 

-If you are paying someone to run a house system, then you've got the value in the labor

 

-If you are renting equipment without an operator, then you've got the value in the good provided

 

If you are using a a service that is providing both, well then you've got a compound situation and separating the two isn't always that easy

There is some efficiency in the service provider having intimate control in specing and knowing the equipment.

There is the varying complexity tied to the scale of the job

etc

[agedhorse]

There are folks who will blow their entire inheritance on a sound system so they can be the big shot, be cool and get laid. Well that's what the theory says anyway. Generally, it doesn't go as planned and they crash and burn. Sell the gear for about 20 cents on the dollar.

[Coaster]

or get in a head on accident with a semi on the way to a gig pulling a fifth wheel full of about 30 stacks and lights. that was an ugly way for that guy to leave, but it could happen to any one of us. police report said both vehicles lost control on black ice - common as darkness in the winter here.

[slight-return]

Or restaurants -- woof millions and millions get flushed away there by livin-the-dream type owner-operators

 

 

That's the thing about the skill v cap investment thing -- understanding core competencies and positioning accordingly

[Imwithpepe]

There are folks who will blow their entire inheritance on a sound system so they can be the big shot, be cool and get laid. Well that's what the theory says anyway. Generally, it doesn't go as planned and they crash and burn. Sell the gear for about 20 cents on the dollar.

 

 

Wait, this job is supposed to be making me cool and getting me laid? What the hell!!!!

[agedhorse]

Wait, this job is supposed to be making me cool and getting me laid? What the hell!!!!

That's what I was promised 30 years ago. Still waiting

[Imwithpepe]

That's what I was promised 30 years ago. Still waiting

I'm still breaking down and loading the truck while the guitar and drum techs are getting laid...

[sorocknroll]

man I am givin out a lot of respect these days (ie disagreeing). While you are correct taht a PERSONS worth is not nessicarily linked to the cost of the gear they own, it is intrinsicly linked via thier ablity to supply the gear. If you want to say that each person is equal, then you must count the gear as a seprate issue, and certinly not equal. if you say your guitar player and sound guy are each worth 100$/night, ..how do you account for the fact teh sound guy has 20,000 in gear, and the guitar player has 2000? lastly- there are many a sound guy that are not as good at sound, but have expensive rigs, and DO get the work and charge the money. They are good bussiness people and I bid agenst them all the time. FYI - we generally will not do a gig for less then about $800-$1000, unless it is easy, like Bill mentioned above. Our "large" rig , still no name, starts at about 2500$/day. A tech only will cost you about 350/day.

See, my opinion on this is simple. When you showed up at band camp and they were handing out instruments, you shouldn't have stood in the "sound guy" line if you didn't want to pay for sound equipment. You shouldn't stand in the "drummer" line if you don't want to haul those butches around to every gig. Just like you shouldn't stand in the line for the "supermodels" if you don't like having your picture taken.

[sorocknroll]

 

If you're just playing for fun - sure. If you want to get the better paying gigs and "step it up" do you really want a potential customer to hear you with crap sound? How do you know for sure who's out in the audience?

 

Pfft. Well, shyeah...in an ideal world we could afford sound at every show.

I'm a huge perfectionist. I'm sure it drives the rest of the band crazy, but I would LOVE to have perfect sound at EVERY show! I would love to have perfect everything at every show. But I can't ask the guys to play for free (break even with their tab) just so we can pay a sound guy.

[sorocknroll]

 

Wait, this job is supposed to be making me cool and getting me laid? What the hell!!!!

 

Ha!

[madjack]

See, my opinion on this is simple. When you showed up at band camp and they were handing out instruments, you shouldn't have stood in the "sound guy" line if you didn't want to pay for sound equipment. You shouldn't stand in the "drummer" line if you don't want to haul those butches around to every gig. Just like you shouldn't stand in the line for the "supermodels" if you don't like having your picture taken.

As a matter of fact, I didn't stand in the "sound guy" line. First I stood in the "singer guy" line, then the "guitar guy" line, then the "keyboard guy" line, then the "bass guy" line. Then, after getting a decent band together and trying to get gigs, I figured out that the band wouldn't work too well without someone doing the "sound guy" thing, so I started buying some pa gear, then some more pa gear, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nausea

Fortunately, now I have a decent sound/light setup for almost any venue up to 350-500 people. More than that needed, I can afford to hire sound done or rent the extra needed. It's fairly simple; if you don't like paying what a sound guy wants, and you want to be able to play, buy your own gear and learn how to use it. There are lots of good sounding bands performing while mixing from onstage on their own stuff.

[sorocknroll]

As a matter of fact, I didn't stand in the "sound guy" line. First I stood in the "singer guy" line, then the "guitar guy" line, then the "keyboard guy" line, then the "bass guy" line. Then, after getting a decent band together and trying to get gigs, I figured out that the band wouldn't work too well without someone doing the "sound guy" thing, so I started buying some pa gear, then some more pa gear, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nausea Fortunately, now I have a decent sound/light setup for almost any venue up to 350-500 people. More than that needed, I can afford to hire sound done or rent the extra needed. It's fairly simple; if you don't like paying what a sound guy wants, and you want to be able to play, buy your own gear and learn how to use it. There are lots of good sounding bands performing while mixing from onstage on their own stuff.

I'm just sayin'...

[twangin6]

I own the sound system, lights, truck and trailer. I run sound from the stage and try to get the singer to run the lights via midi pedals. I ask that they pay me $50. off the top each time out. Some bitch about that and ask if after 100 gigs do they own part of the system........

[sorocknroll]

 

It doesn't hinge on what they spend on equipment. HOWEVER, look around. Most of the people that don't know jack usually don't know enough to buy good equipment. They could also have bought the best rig in the world for a bar band, but they still don't know dick and that awsome PA will sound like fried ass. On the other hand, a competant soundperson can usually make a half ass system sound better than you thought it could. BUT, they wouldn't buy low end crap for a PA. There are always exceptions but the majority of the time a nice, well maintained, great sounding rig usually means that the person is competant, knows what their doing, and knows how to pick better equipment and run it. I've had plenty of people call me for a gig and then go ape{censored} when I told them the price. They get pissed and tell me that they know someone that'll do it for half that. My response is usually "Then what the hell did you call me for?" The guy i work with and I get the calls when a band wants to make a geat impression on a club for their first gig. Then once they have gigs booked they pull in a real bottom feeder that'll do it for next to nothing. Then after a few gigs the club tells them it sux and they want to cancel the rest of their gigs. Then I get another call from a guy that doesn't want to lose gigs, Were not some big sound company, but for the gigs we get at the pay level we ask, we have better equipment than most. I have no problem taking less gigs for what comes to the same amount of money in the end. I also have no problem with the knowledge that I won't get called for a ton of gigs but when someone wants tomake a good impression my phone will ring. I can live with that reputation. It may sound like I'm tooting my own horn. I'm not the best guy around, I know that and I'm fine with it. Hell, I've refered bands to other people and they've sent people to me. But I do have the self worth to ask what I think is fair for my services. If that's too much for somone there's always someone else willing to do it cheaper. More power to them

 

Ok...but I'm just sayin'...

[sorocknroll]

I own the sound system, lights, truck and trailer. I run sound from the stage and try to get the singer to run the lights via midi pedals. I ask that they pay me $50. off the top each time out. Some bitch about that and ask if after 100 gigs do they own part of the system........

They bitch about $50? You're being quite generous...

[madjack]

Ok...but I'm just sayin'...

 

 

Sayin' what, precisely?

[sorocknroll]

Sayin' what, precisely?

Ok, if you like, I can repeat myself

I'm saying that, while you may have a point about those with better knowledge/skill of sound will be more apt to purchase better/more quality equipment, there is certainly no guarantee that the possession of said equipment would automatically solidify one as a "good" sound person.

On a semi-different topic, I find that too many sound professionals don't think of their role as "musical" enough. I think they should consider the art of running sound as "playing an instrument." Otherwise, why are they doing it? For the money? If so, there went all the fun in running sound.

I used to work in radio, so I do have experience with the equipment, but only ran sound for bands a couple of times to "help friends in a pinch." It takes a dedicated ear to do it properly and too many sound guys spend too much time at the bar or hitting on chicks.

I don't have a point with that, really. I just kinda felt like you were insisting on a response, so I just started typing. LOL

[Axisplayer]

And when you went to college and stood in the neurosurgeon line you expected to make more money at the end of the day than the guy that stood in the social services line. I stood in the soundman line so I WOULD make more money than the muso's do (I was a muso for 40 years before I made the switch) and I do make more than they do at every show.