No more "made in USA" for JBL

[agedhorse]

surely you jest. i have a pair of the 515 eons at work and they easily trump any preceding series of eon; the G2 and the gray ones.

 

 

I agree, the new Eons are pretty serious contenders at the lower mid level of the market. Much better sounding (and looking) than the previous stuff.

 

Speaking of made in China, it doesn't automaticly mean that it's bad... in fact there is some outstanding product being manufactured there and frankly if you are not willing to admit it, you are being very closed minded.

 

NAFTA is a poor implimentation of regional socalism IMO, legislating how and where manufacturing can take place by using taxes or duties rather than the best place for the job is not good. Also, I have found that NAFTA seems to work in only one direction, doing bisuness with Canada is still as frustrating and expensive as ever.

[jack parker]

All I have to say is that i've had a few bits of equipment from allen and heath that were faulty and when tested, found to be dangerous due to not being earthed. Plus i've heard from friends who've had chinese manufactered equipment and had problems with build quality. Personally, I thinbk its all abouyt making more money, higher profits for the companies at the expense of the customer but thats just from my experience from having owned chinese manufactured equipment.

 

If JBL are doing it to make higher profits then I for one, won't be buying anything from JBL ever again, but if they intend to keep the build quality as good as its always been and provide their speakers for a lower price then i'm happy about it. I've got nothing against chinese people but In hear weekly how people are having or have had problems with equipment thats manufactured there.

[lifeloverwg]

Being made in China certainly doesn't have to mean low quality, but it does probably mean it's being made there to attain a low price. Is that good or bad? Depends. Good for the Chinese worker, bad for the U.S. worker.

If you're the buyer then it's unlikely you will complain about a lower price, but if you're the worker that used to make it, low cost won't matter because without a job you can't afford it. I tend toward Craig's point of view that there is a need for tariffs and import duties to prod other country's toward a more level playing field but that seems highly unlikely any time soon. Especially with our current ineffective political system. True tariffs are not pure Capitalism, but I've never been a believer in any of the ism's being perfect so that doesn't bother me. Long term it seems inevitable that the world will level out life styles and if population continues to expand then that level is likely to be lower than what we are used to. That might not even be all bad and is certainly good for the third world poor, but social change is usually hard and often resisted violently.

We focus on jobs lost through them moving overseas, but it's not our only problem. Even with the job losses we continue to increase productivity in this country, but we do it with improvements in technology, which sounds great except that most technological improvements require less workers to do the same or more production. Retrain all the manufacturing workers you want and they still won't find jobs, when every year it takes less workers to do the work. Some how, some day, we are going to have to find a new way that more equitably spreads the work and wealth worldwide.

I don't have any real answers as to how to fix things, but I do believe in voting with my dollars and have done so most of my adult life. For instance, I have moral issues with how Walmart conducts business, so I don't shop there. In fact I've never set foot inside one. I'm sure they don't even notice the loss of my few dollars, but if all the people I've ever heard complain about Walmart or other big corporations taking advantage of their workers or moving jobs overseas quit giving them their money, they'd notice. If any of you are truly bothered by JBL's changes, don't buy their products.

Interesting times indeed. Winston

[RANUI]

Good news everybody! High end (and middle end) JBL products are NOT "made in China" I can personally attest to this fact. Recently purchased: one pair of PRX512m, and one PRX718s subwoofer. They assemble the product in Mexico, in a very high tech factory that has been producing Eon G2's for many long years. For the PRX line, they stopped production of Eons in Mexico and moved the entire Eon line to China. I've heard the new Eon line of speakers at GC, and they sound like crap! Even the QSC K-Series sound better (and they are also made in China). Back to the PRX's. They ship them back to Northridge CA where they are put thru rigorous testing and inspection, then are packaged and shipped from California location. My speakers took about 3.5 weeks from ordering to actual shipping from JBL Factory. I have the original invoices. Nothing wrong with "Made In North America" Since N.A.F.T.A.......these arrangements make us stronger on BOTH sides of the border. Get used to it, folks! I'd rather have Mexicans building my PRXs than buying cheap Chinese-made crap at Guitar Center!!!

 

 

Pull the amp section out of your PRX 718s, and tell me where it is made, mine has ' MADE IN CHINA ' on a small sticker just under the JBL logo that is pressed into the alloy.

[agedhorse]

Pull the amp section out of your PRX 718s, and tell me where it is made, mine has ' MADE IN CHINA ' on a small sticker just under the JBL logo that is pressed into the alloy.

 

 

Yup, global sourcing.

 

Anybody who thinks that stuff is made in only one country with parts from only one country these days are grossly out of touch with reality.

[RANUI]

 

Yup, global sourcing. Anybody who thinks that stuff is made in only one country with parts from only one country these days are grossly out of touch with reality.

 

 

The consumer dosnt always get the benefit of the cheaper production costs in foreign countries. Often foreign made product is priced just below the local made which can mean greater corporate profit. Introduction of the K range from QSC had EV bring down the price of one of their powered lines, cant remember exactly which one, about 25% if I recall correctly. Was the EV too expensive? Often the cost of component manufacture overseas is not a lot cheaper than onshore, but I guess its enough to make the difference. The cost of freighting those big PRX718 boxes around would not be insignificant. I wonder where the actual driver is made. There is lots of money to be made selling replacement/spare parts, especially if they are proprietary and not easily copied.

[agedhorse]

The cost savings can be significant in both the parts (which contain labor too) and assembly labor. It depends on the manufacturing structure in both countries, as to the scale of the cost difference.

How doesn't the customer benefit from the cost of a (quality) product decreasing by 25%? Seems to me that they are the direct beneficiary.

[RANUI]

How doesn't the customer benefit from the cost of a (quality) product decreasing by 25%? Seems to me that they are the direct beneficiary.

The customer does benefit from the lower price, its the guy that brought the month/week before the price drop that would be feeling ripped off. I guess its called model run out.

[jack parker]

Well, I won't be buying anything else JBL ever again if the SRX series or MRX series start getting made in china.

[malcatron]

Unfortunately for us, cheaper labour overseas is too hard for the corporate greed machine to resist. Will it come back to bite them in the ass when their home market suffers due to rising unemployment and lower wages? Or will they just sell their wares to the newly rich of the emerging nations instead??

I'm a software developer by profession, and last year I lost my job as it was outsourced to India. But now Indian companies are subcontracting the work out to Vietnam where it's even cheaper!! Who knows, maybe it'll come full cycle and I'll end up writing software for Indian companies....

We all cry unfair when foreign workers steal our jobs, but then does anyone shed a tear when in some distant foreign land yet another local cafe or restaurant goes out of business because they can't compete with Starbucks or McDonald's?? It's not all one way traffic.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

How doesn't the customer benefit from the cost of a (quality) product decreasing by 25%? Seems to me that they are the direct beneficiary.

 

 

When jobs are lost to another country, we lose.

[Audioeast]

Awesome.....the outsourcing continues... maybe they can stop paying their bills and lose their tooling like Loud did last year (hence why EAW is back in Whitensville MA)

Hey at least a diaphragm replacement for a SRX700 box might not be $250 retail anymore... WTF?? Why is it i can get a diaphragm from italy for a 1/4 of the cost of a JBL one made in the US????

[jack parker]

Hopefully JBL will keep their build quality as good as its always been but make the prices of their speaker cabinets and components cheaper. Hopefully they be like every other company which doesn't pass the cheaper costs onto their customers but uses the cheaper labour to make themselves more profit. From my point of view, all moving manufacturing to china makes me lose respect for these companies.

[modulusman]

I own some EAW nt series PA cabinets that were American made. When EAW went overseas they did drop the list price $1500.00 a box. I recently checked there website and the NT series has been discontinued.

[agedhorse]

When jobs are lost to another country, we lose.

 

 

Yes, my point is that the customer benefits and loses with every change. Jobs are lost but costs come down. It's a give and take scenario. The one benefit to this is that companies that were making very high profit margins because there was little real competition are now being forced to deal with the realities of the economy.

 

How come countries that have very high import tarrifs and protectionist policies towards domestic production also have very high unemployment? Seems counter to logic.

[eagertolearn84]

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

 

Competition isn't coming from next door or down the street anymore, it's coming from China, India, etc and they're hungry for our way of life.

 

Times are tough but isn't funky how much money is being spent on War? 80%+ of our taxes. You can go on youtube and watch a small groups of 'enemies' get blown up by $1,000,000+ bombs and rockets.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Yes, my point is that the customer benefits and loses with every change. Jobs are lost but costs come down. It's a give and take scenario. The one benefit to this is that companies that were making very high profit margins because there was little real competition are now being forced to deal with the realities of the economy. How come countries that have very high import tarrifs and protectionist policies towards domestic production also have very high unemployment? Seems counter to logic.

 

 

 

For example?

http://www.export.gov/logistics/eg_main_018142.asp

 

The ideal is to get countries that have high tariffs to reduce or eliminate them. Sometimes the only way to do this is by giving them a dose of their own medicine.

 

There's also the "chicken or egg" question...did the high unemployment exist prior to, or occur after, implimenting high tariffs/protectionist laws?

[JoeDirt]

Unfortunately for us, cheaper labour overseas is too hard for the corporate greed machine to resist. Will it come back to bite them in the ass when their home market suffers due to rising unemployment and lower wages? Or will they just sell their wares to the newly rich of the emerging nations instead??

 

 

The emerging nations do not pay their workers enough for them to afford the equipment they are making. And if we lose enough higher paying manufacturing positions here in the USA we will be in the same boat.

 

These companies are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Makes me wonder what kind of economists they have working for them.

 

This will come around and bite them in the ass eventually but in the meantime we get stuck being forced into a service based economy that makes less and less durable goods. It is not a good situation to be in. We got out of the great depression on the backs of our very strong manufacturing base, we no longer have that backbone.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. Competition isn't coming from next door or down the street anymore, it's coming from China, India, etc and they're hungry for our way of life. Times are tough but isn't funky how much money is being spent on War? 80%+ of our taxes. You can go on youtube and watch a small groups of 'enemies' get blown up by $1,000,000+ bombs and rockets.

 

 

80% ???

 

Where'd you get that figure?

 

It's not anywhere close to accurate, and I'll write what is more accurate if you can cite the source of your info.

[agedhorse]

The emerging nations do not pay their workers enough for them to afford the equipment they are making. And if we lose enough higher paying manufacturing positions here in the USA we will be in the same boat.

 

 

Oh that's not true at all, they are on their way up and their standard of living is increasing at a rapid pace. You have to remember that the cost of living is lower as well as the wages.

 

A good example is Japan, Korea and Taiwan. All three were developing nations with low wages and every one of them followed the same path to where they are pretty much equal to the US or Europe in terms of wages and standards when cost of living is factored in. Their general standard of living is just as high.

[eagertolearn84]

touche Craigv, I practically pulled that out my behind hence the "80%+". Sorry for my laziness in not looking up the correct #..... even now.

[Craig Vecchione]

The more-correct figures are that the US DoD budget for 2009 was about 22% of total tax revenue. It amounts to under 5% of US GDP.

[eagertolearn84]

ahh, way off.

[RANUI]

 

For example? http://www.export.gov/logistics/eg_main_018142.asp The ideal is to get countries that have high tariffs to reduce or eliminate them. Sometimes the only way to do this is by giving them a dose of their own medicine. There's also the "chicken or egg" question...did the high unemployment exist prior to, or occur after, implimenting high tariffs/protectionist laws?

 

 

http://www.itintl.com/

 

How Much Does it Cost to Import? Importers are expected to pay an import tax on virtually every item they import. But how much do you have to pay? Import tax (also known as an import duty or import tariff) is collected by US Customs on every import that comes into the US. Import tariffs are the second largest source of revenue next to the IRS.

 

Import duties and taxes appear to be around 25%

 

http://www.usaexportimport.com/duty_tax.php

[The Chinese]

The more-correct figures are that the US DoD budget for 2009 was about 22% of total tax revenue. It amounts to under 5% of US GDP.

 

 

 

That's still a Poop load of money. But factor that in with the amount of debt that has to get serviced and it really isn't healthy.

 

Bottom line is that the peopel that adapt to changing realities will always be better off- manufacturing as we know it will be exported overseas. So long as Wal*Mart is the preferred store, that's reality.

 

Todd A.