What is it with some bands??

[Dogoth]

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

 

 

I guess it depends on what you mean by "current music".

 

I always thought of the double marshall stack SVT combo as a throwback to the 60s/70s (even early80s) when Most PA systems couldn't reproduce the instruments properly so players relied on stage volume. It IS possible to play on the brink of feedback and have a FAT Punchy sound at a lower volume (I will agree that there is a 2% difference between a killer amp/speaker modeler (this requires the skill of the player to set it up right) and an overdriven tube output section but save that 2% for the studio - not the stage). I know this to be true because I've worked with some pretty top names (even with recent hits) that got that great sound without insane stage volume (ever hear of compression?). hearing is believing.

 

Of course it's not going to be 86db at the console, but 100db to 103db (with a heaping helping of bottom end) is more than reasonable and will leave any crowd but the deafest, satisfied and feeling entertained & energized. It also won't make that crown join the deafest ones :>).

 

I read an interesting article about the human ear's ability to discern intonation at high volume levels. You know what they say - "If you can't play it right, play it loud".

 

Sorry but I don't buy it.

[lifeloverwg]

My Brothers, In order to control stage volume, I use Roland e-drums and an IEM system. I bleed just enough of the kick and snare into the remaining wedges for the other members to hear. We had a hard of hearing guitarist who insisted on cranking up, but I finally had enough of it and replaced him. He also put out his own personal tip jar at one gig, and that was it for him !

Now that is funny!:lol: The ultimate in more me!

Winston

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

 

 

 

So only your music is current?

 

Unbounded ego, eh?

 

Edit: The OP was pretty clear what genre he's dealing with: funk/blues. I've never heard of this genre needing to be on the edge of feedback, or to "overwhelm people with noise".

[RoadRanger]

Well hey, if you're playing original "Cookie Monster" stuff and don't want to risk your artistic integrity by having anyone actually want to pay to hear you stoopid loud and feeding back is definitely the way to go .

[WRGKMC]

When I do sound I let the band know what I can and cant do for them right up front. If they need a quality resume or references, they usually get blown away by them. In return for my experteese, Its understood that I have command over the sound and they have command over the notes.

 

If they're amatures I'm willing to work with them up to a point. If they disreguard requests needed to balance stage volume, and disrespect my professionalism and ability to provide quality sound. I let them know in right up front, I dont want any future business with them and have no problem letting them know why. They might not like hearing they cant handel a pro situation, its just too bad. Its a business like any other.

 

This rarely occurs though, because I dont work with alot of amature bands. The ones I do have seeked me out because they know what I can do and want the sound I can get them. They also know up front whats required before a gig happens. This avoids shell shock when a guys grooving and I tell them they have to change their sound so they dont continue to sound like a fool audio wise. I can make a simple request, or even make the adjustment for them with no qualms, they even like having me do it for them.

 

Then when I give them the thumbs up they can play their asses off all they want. If on the other hand they disrespect my work, I have no problem walking up and returning the lack of respect between songs in front of their audiance. (A good dose of feedback in the monitors can sometimes tune them back in too, but I'm not vindictive and dont have to resort to making a band sound like crap. I can simply mix so it drives the audience away and pack up early and end the kindergarden class)

[Mogwix]

 

I can simply mix so it drives the audience away and pack up early and end the kindergarden class

 

Everyone needs to check their ego at the door, musicians and sound humans included. I feel your approach is a little outside the realm of professionalism.

 

If a band is too loud, I'll ask if they can turn down. If they don't, or turn up, I'll put in my earplugs and watch the crowd dissipate. I've watched or mixed plenty of bands I thought were too loud. Coincidentally though, I think they'd sound just as awful at any volume.

[Redbassman86]

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

 

 

I will not bother to dignify this with a response. Other than WTF?!?!

[summit111]

Urgh. I like a low stage volume but I'll never play or recommend e-drums for live use. Leave those in the apartment. I hate playing e-kits and I hate mixing them. Whatever works for you though is great.

 

 

My Brother,

 

I was in your camp at one time, then I used Rolands for practice, then for {censored}s and giggles, I used them live for our dance band. I have a top of the line Ronald TD-20 for live use. Our sound guy loves them. Our fans just care about the FOH mix.

 

For my Jazz band, I use Yamaha Stage Customs, as a request of the band leader. They'd run me out of New Orleans and into the oil slick if I showed up with an e-kit for a jazz gig!

[Mcfontio]

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

I've been to some of those shows and couldn't hear anything that was going on. Consequently, people usually walk out in under five minutes. But hey, it's modern

[RoadRanger]

I've been to some of those shows and couldn't hear anything that was going on. Consequently, people usually walk out in under five minutes. But hey, it's modern

"COOKIES!"

[heath_eld]

Isnt this the hate of all sound guys? Worked with a band a few weeks ago. Set a nice mix but we got an instruction from the guy in charge that it had to come down in volume. Most of the guys were fine, but the drummer just belted the living crap out of his kit (despite my having asked him to keep it down). So, he looked like a fool (his massive fills were often out of time as well as obnoxiously loud)... of course, when you're not getting paid, and your "future work" doesnt really depend on a good sound seeing as you're not being paid in the first place, its easy to just shake your head.

[Craig Vecchione]

I've been to some of those shows and couldn't hear anything that was going on. Consequently, people usually walk out in under five minutes. But hey, it's modern

 

Current :mad:

[Phil Clark]

How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times...

 

 

That's all fine a good. And I as a professional do realize that some music needs to be mixed at 96dbA and some music needs to be mixed at 108dbA. But NOTHING ever has to be mixed at 115dbA or higher.

 

And on the brink of feedback means getting feedback from time to time. And since feedback not caught early enough can result in hearing damage, and possibly blown speakers (putting an end to the show), I just have to ask...

 

How hard is it for musicians to realize that this is a business (sound reinforcement) and that the PA is used for other people?

 

But many musicians simply want us to work with them but refuse to extend us the same courtesy and be willing to work with us to protect our equipment and the attendees hearing. When we find a band like that, we refuse to work with them again. Well, we will... if we run into a band like that. So far, only the one punk band, and we weren't really doing sound for them except as a favor to the main band.

[Dogoth]

And on the brink of feedback means getting feedback from time to time. And since feedback not caught early enough can result in hearing damage, and possibly blown speakers (putting an end to the show), I just have to ask...

 

 

I agree about working with bands that are WAY too loud. If it happens once, it won't happen again (at least not with my services involved). That said, to be fair, I think orangesix was refering to his guitar being in the brink of feedback.

 

Yea I agree, if they want the monitors that way - NO WAY!

[Coaster]

That's all fine a good. And I as a professional do realize that some music needs to be mixed at 96dbA and some music needs to be mixed at 108dbA. But NOTHING ever has to be mixed at 115dbA or higher.

 

 

i'll take the 96dbA show. i like it loud but there was one time i thought i was about going to die at a soundcheck (someone elses show) and i looked at the meter and it said 106. that was way, way too loud.

[Axisplayer]

A local band hired me and I had never heard them before. I said sure. Set it all up. Ready to go. Bass player walks up to his SVT (original) and starts to tune up. My heart stopped. He had the amp (I am not kidding here at all) on 10. I have never heard anyone tune up so loud they were overdriving their amp and speakers before, but he was.

 

I wanted to pack and leave then, but got to enjoy 4 hours of zero dynamics played at 431 decibels. Deaf people were leaving the area. Newly deaf people were also leaving the area. I inserted (-20 db) earplugs and then put on my headphones OVER them, although they weren't plugged in, and didn't need to be.

[Bobby1Note]

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

This post is so preposterous, it goes beyond my capability to respond,,,,, but what the hey,,,,

What the hell is it that these amateurs don't understand, about the difference between a "powerful" sound, and an "overly loud" sound.

The pro's?? Well, they play with "power", but through it all, the band is balanced, and no instrument EVER overwhelms the vocals,,,, ever.

Basement wannabe rock-stars with no experience playing to an audience through a P/A, show that inexperience every time they get on a stage without having figured out that the P/A is feeding a balanced sound to the room. You work "WITH" the P/A,,,, not against it. If they haven't figured that out yet, best to stay in the basement a while longer. The crowd will probably be bigger there anyway,,, because these hackers will probably empty a club anyway, through their amateurish approach.

[MarkGifford-1]

The pro's?? Well, they play with "power", but through it all, the band is balanced, and no instrument EVER overwhelms the vocals,,,, ever.

 

 

Ever been to a Motorhead or Robin Trower club show?

 

IMHO, it's usually the "pros" who will bring stadium rigs into clubs/small venues and have the sound so loud that it's just mush...

 

Trower did a club show here a while back, in a decent-sized room - maybe 7-800 capacity. His guitar was so loud that it overwhelmed the PA. FOH guy had no guitar in the mix and people were still leaving. There's no way anyone would tell him to turn down.

 

It's not all pro acts - I've seen many that were appropriate, but in general, they will do what they need to do to get their "sound" and the soundguy and audiences just have to deal...

 

This leads to pretty excessive levels, at most shows.

 

Amateur bands usually just sound bad in general, but at least most will work with you, if you tell them they're too loud.

 

MG

[RoadRanger]

It's not all pro acts - I've seen many that were appropriate, but in general, they will do what they need to do to get their "sound" and the soundguy and audiences just have to deal...

I don't care who it is - if they can't sound good at a reasonable SPL they just plain suck live . I'll stick to listening to their albums .

[Dogoth]

Ever been to a Motorhead or Robin Trower club show?

 

 

Seems I mentioned something about the sound from the 60s/70s/80s earlier (Trower). Yes there are bands that still follow in their footsteps (Motorhead) but this is exactly what has caused many of the current generations to prematurly loose their hearing. There are also many great bands (some even from 60s/70s/80s) that figured it out and now let the P.A. do the work.

 

I have to agree with Bobby1Note about the notion that to have a "current" sound one must hurt themselves and the front row of the audience is preposterous.

[WynnD]

I was getting 117.4dBC stage volume

 

 

And I don't like it when my band reaches 107 dbc. (Perceived 1/2 volume cut for those who don't understand this.)

[Phil Clark]

But 117dbc is not as bad as 117dba. The human ear can handle higher low end db than it can mid and high end db.

[orangesix]

I'm guessing there arent any Lighnting Bolt fans here?

[W. M. Hellinger]

I hope you carry hearing protection for dealing with musicians that think that the louder they play, the better they sound.

 

"You"???

 

I'll suggest that the company or individual polluting the public accessable environment with harmful emissions is responsible for protecting those masses from their emissions... and is responsible for compensating the masses for any inconveniences or damage their errant emissions might cause.

[Dogoth]

I'll suggest that the company or individual polluting the public accessable environment with harmful emissions is responsible for protecting those masses from their emissions... and is responsible for compensating the masses for any inconveniences or damage their errant emissions might cause.

I love the description "errant emissions"

Excellent!