Best way to go 100ft from mixer to FOH mains?

[Coaster]

for every simple solution there is an expensive and complicated one. or something like that.

 

but really, the EWI snake is a better idea than some 16x4 gack snake.

[Mogwix]

I used to be the king just with my little Peavey, and my Community speakers. Now I have my QSCs and my MixWiz, and I'm GOD. Lol, it cracks me up.

 

Well you're definitely doing a good job of asking questions and doing your research.

 

I question the need for a snake, though? If you're running a band PA, then I don't really see the need for a snake, since you're probably going to be running the sound from the stage. That is, unless you plan on mixing other bands too.

[Coaster]

Well you're definitely doing a good job of asking questions and doing your research. I question the need for a snake, though? If you're running a band PA, then I don't really see the need for a snake, since you're probably going to be running the sound from the stage. That is, unless you plan on mixing other bands too.

 

i like little short small channel snakes for running around on the stage. if you look on my bands stage you will see NO CABLES anywhere near me, but over by the guitar and bass "tech disaster" you will see no floor i tolerate it but i dont approve. there arent any mic cables over there, i'm not sure what it all is but its a mess. for me its all about running cables to the perimeter of the stage, for some its a jumbled mess.

[Mogwix]

for me its all about running cables to the perimeter of the stage, for some its a jumbled mess.

 

My guitarist is the same, I look over and it's a huge mess of cables lying all over the place. There's guitar cases and cable bags and all kinds of junk laying around... then he's all mad and pissed off because all his {censored}'s in the way! C'mon, man! So, during setup I'll usually take a few seconds to tidy up the entire stage. I grab my gaff tape and secure any loose cables.

 

Sub snakes make things very clean and easy.

[Bobby1Note]

Sub snakes make things very clean and easy.

 

 

+1

 

I went with a 100' 16x8 EWI reel snake, and an 8x4 stage snake.Seemed like the ideal set-up to use with my MixWiz.

[Shaster]

I question the need for a snake, though? If you're running a band PA, then I don't really see the need for a snake, since you're probably going to be running the sound from the stage. That is, unless you plan on mixing other bands too.

 

 

 

Since the beginning of this thread I've been wondering two things; 1. why not ask the questions before purchasing, 2. is a snake really necessary at this point and time.

 

I would say if you don't really need it, take the thing back and pick up one or two EWI drop snakes. These are almost always useful, no matter the mixer position.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like this snake is solving a problem that hasn't come up yet.

 

To "subs"... check your target venues.... find out what's what first. Maybe some places won't let you mix from out front, maybe some need a 150' snake, maybe you'll only need a snake once a year....

 

And do you plan mixing your own band from out front during soundcheck and then... and then what?

 

I think we're all trying to help you avoid the buy twice cry twice syndrome that many of us have experienced.

[Unalaska]

I still say that a 16x4 snake is fine, just use 15&16 for left and right. Many bands can be mixed in 12-14 channels.

[GCDEF]

GCDEF, I did see that, and I appreciate the thought. I'm just concerned about not having seperate control over my monitor mixes for feedback issues. The one on PSW I would go for, but damn, seems like a hassle. Especially so far out of state.

 

 

You'd still have control over three of mixes. In most cases, that should be enough. The right snake would be the better option, but you could at least make this work with what you have.

[Craig Vecchione]

Seems silly to have a mixer with 16 channels and 4 monitor mixes, and then not be able to fully utilize it because of an easily correctible mistake in buying the snake. He can return it for a refund. Getting a snake that actually meets his needs seems wiser than compromising right out of the gate.

[monthlymixcd]

+1

[Ryan.]

Guys,
Thanks a ton for all the help and advice.
I took the 16x4x100 snake back to GC and got a full refund. I'm going to wait on Rusty at PSW to see if he'll sell to me and if he will I'll pick up that 16x8x100 reel snake.
As for my usage, when my band plays, usually two other bands play. I HAVE been mixing from the stage, and I hate it. Trying to bring the vocals up while maintaining my guitar chords can be tricky.
I know its probably not true, but to me the snake seems like the last purchase I'll need to make for a while for my set up and it will allow me to do things beyond what I can now.
When I bought the GC snake, I was only thinking about getting sound away from the stage, not back to it. Rookie mistake.
Luckily I took it back within 30 days and got a refund, and then asked you guys what my best option is.
For my set up, sounds like the Reel is great.
After buying QSC mains and subs a $500 snake doesn't seem that painful, but I do want to make sure I'm making the right choice, especially if I'm not buying at a local GC.

[imnotded]

The general advise when you go into any GC, is to know what you need before you go in. Otherwise you end up with the wrong snake. I don't think I have ever found a helpful GC employee when it comes to anything significant about anything that has to do with music.

[Ryan.]

Actually, I have one guy at GC who has been awesome for me. He was the one that made me switch from a Eurodesk mixer to a MixWiz, and from Mackie mains and subs to the QSCs.

However he wasn't there on the day of the snake. Hahaha, go figure.

Usually I do pretty good research on what I buy, but on the snake my head was just out of the game I guess. Maybe I was planning on going wireless to the mains?!

I think the 16x8x100 is going to be my best bet.

[IsildursBane]

Yes, you can string together shorter cables for a return, but I'd advise against this, as the connections are a failure point, they might be trod upon in the venue, and it's generally uncool. Get a 100ft cable.

 

 

Is it just me, or is a 100' cable a much bigger PITA to wrap than 4x 25' cables?

 

It's particularly bad when you're working with an outfit that prefers not to over/under. twists everywhere

 

-Dan.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I don't think I have ever found a helpful GC employee when it comes to anything significant about anything that has to do with music.

 

 

While I've encountered plenty of the typical uninspired drones, I've also worked with some really sharp guys at the Plymouth Meeting, PA store.

[Craig Vecchione]

Is it just me, or is a 100' cable a much bigger PITA to wrap than 4x 25' cables? It's particularly bad when you're working with an outfit that prefers not to over/under. twists everywhere -Dan.

 

 

I'd say it's almost exactly 400% more of a PITA to wrap. Mic cable is small enough that it's not all that difficult to deal with, however, and I'll reiterate the problems of having all those connections, which Murphy dictates will always locate themselves in a traffic area.....

[Ryan.]

Man, Liz just emailed me from audiopile letting me know I'll have my case early next week. STOKED. Just with how great they've been with helping me out makes me want to buy the snake from them too.

[imnotded]

While I've encountered plenty of the typical uninspired drones, I've also worked with some really sharp guys at the Plymouth Meeting, PA store.

 

 

I actually bought my Line 6 M9 at that store. My wife is from collegeville and we went in that GC on black friday last year. The first guy I talked to had no idea what I was talking about, but the 2nd guy was a little helpful at least. Cant blame them on that day though. I'm going to remember you said they know what they are talking about next time Im in there.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I actually bought my Line 6 M9 at that store. My wife is from collegeville and we went in that GC on black friday last year. The first guy I talked to had no idea what I was talking about, but the 2nd guy was a little helpful at least. Cant blame them on that day though. I'm going to remember you said they know what they are talking about next time Im in there.

 

 

I didn't say the people I've encountered recently were any good. Just dispelling the myth that nobody at GC is ever helpful.

 

FWIW, I work a few miles from Collegeville, in Malvern.

[kmart]

I didn't say the people I've encountered recently were any good. Just dispelling the myth that nobody at GC is ever helpful.

 

 

Simple mathematics and laws of averages says that eventually you will find the diamond in the rough and wind up with a competent (or better) and knowledgeable worker there.

 

Simple mathematics and laws of finances, however, says that eventually, that guy will bail for greener pastures if he doesn't have it in him to become a 'sales shark' OR he'll realize that just about the only way to make a living selling gear at a place like that is to become the equivalent of a used car salesman.

 

Unfortunate, but pretty much true across the board, unless they have significantly changed their pay/commission structure.

[monthlymixcd]

... unless they have significantly changed their pay/commission structure.

 

 

Not to my knowledge. None of the good guys stick around our GC very long. Most of the "musicians" that work there I have NEVER seen on our local scene. Where do they come from?!? Is there a wormhole that they take to get to work every day? Is there a Stargate in the percussion room disguised as a gong?!? Just wonderin'...

[Unalaska]

There is a reason for people not working at GC very long. I used to manage a small store (about the size of one of GC's departments or less) in the midwest and I sold 3x more stuff at GC and made slightly above the state's $7.50 minimum wage (or what ever it was). Execs need to feed thier egos and coke habits. And not only that they buy in such insane bulk they get off sheet pricing, who can compete?

[monthlymixcd]

Not to totally digress into a GC bashing thread... but the few decent sales people whose opinion I actually repected told me that they made less than minimum wage when they started and if it wasn't for employee discounts they'd have bailed much sooner than they eventually did.

I personally try to buy most of my stuff at our Music-Go-Round. As a rule, the guys there know their $H!T. Those are also highly sought-after jobs since the staff can buy any of the used gear that sits in inventory at least 2 weeks for only 10% over what the store gave for it... incentive for them to get cool stuff in inventory. Those guys are also at or near the center of the local music scene, know what gear bands are running, where to get a power distro in a pinch, etc. etc. Not sure if all stores do, but mine has my wishlist on file and calls me when something walks in the door...

[Craig Vecchione]

I said I worked with a few really sharp guys. That's all.

[Shaster]

Guys, Thanks a ton for all the help and advice. I took the 16x4x100 snake back to GC and got a full refund. I'm going to wait on Rusty at PSW to see if he'll sell to me and if he will I'll pick up that 16x8x100 reel snake. As for my usage, when my band plays, usually two other bands play. I HAVE been mixing from the stage, and I hate it. Trying to bring the vocals up while maintaining my guitar chords can be tricky.

 

 

Gotcha. So it sounds like you'll set up your band and then have someone mix while you're playing. Then you can mix the other bands after/before your set.

 

I know what it's like to play and mix, and also to have to mix another band from the mixer's stage position. It's a real PITA, so I can see why you want to make the switch.

 

Remember that when you're working with snakes, attention to detail is important. A "mis-patch" has slowed down many a sound check.

 

"I'm not getting the lead vocal, are you sure you put in channel eleven? Eleven, I thought you said seven."