Portable generator for parade

[jlindquist]

I know this topic has been covered before, but I cannot seem to get the search function to work.

 

My kid's band is playing in a parade this weekend -- trailer towed behind pick-up type thing. Entire parade length will be less than 1 hour. What size portable generator would be appropriate for this?

 

Gear would be:

 

RMX 1850 for subs (JBL MPro 418, run in stereo, 4 ohms)

PLX 1602 -- one side for tops (JBL MPro 415) one side for monitors (EV ZX-1)

Small FOH rack -- mixer, FX unit, GEQ, x-over

2x solid state guitar amps

1x small-ish solid state bass amp

 

I had a recommendation to use a Honda EU 2000 (2,000 watts). Would that be enough, our should we step up to the EU 3000? And is that enough?

 

Any other tips for best safe performance with this type of set up?

 

Thanks.

[monthlymixcd]

I'm pretty sure that Honda was the concensus last time this was brought up... I'd say try to rent the larger & quietest unit you can find. Rent vs. buy because they are not cheap and unless you have a need for one on a regular basis... renting makes more sense. With your power requirements, you'd probably be fine with the EU2000i but get a EU3000i if you can find one. Whatever you get, make sure it's one of the inverter models with "i" in the model name... and of course, make sure the unit has adequate ventilation while in operation.

[Shaster]

IIRC a community group I'm in uses the above mentioned Honda Models. Pay attention to your AC cable runs. I've seen some weird placement that almost backfired.

[abzurd]

Do whatever you have to do to ensure the equipment is turned off prior to shutting off the generator. We did a gig like this and told them, more than once, we needed everything off and unplugged before they turned it off. At the end of the parade route we hit the last note and they promptly turned off the generator. We lost a wireless guitar unit and a guitar effects processor.

[Tomm Williams]

I had a similar conversation with one of the production engineers for Starsound Audio in Reno. Now they are doing shows outdoors on a much larger scale than what you're talking about but the principles are the same. Their opinion was that you do not use gasoline generators for sound period.

 

Diesel generators due to their internal parts weight (crank, flywheel, etc..) are far less susceptable to voltage swings because of the inertia developed by the weight of the parts and by the fact that diesel motors develop much greater torque.

 

I once hooked a Furmanar-AR15-2 voltage regulator to a brand new Mccullough 7000 watt generator to see what the LED's would do. They flew from one end of the meter to the other so fast it would make your head spin. That $600.00 unit could not regulate that generator to any level I was satisfied with.

 

The best idea I've heard is to use several deep cycle batteries with a high quality voltage inverter. I've never actually done it but after messing with gas generators, I'd go that route instead. Before you decide anything, think about what it would cost to repair your stuff if the power source is poor,

 

TW

[The Chinese]

 

I had a similar conversation with one of the production engineers for Starsound Audio in Reno. Now they are doing shows outdoors on a much larger scale than what you're talking about but the principles are the same. Their opinion was that you do not use gasoline generators for sound period. Diesel generators due to their internal parts weight (crank, flywheel, etc..) are far less susceptable to voltage swings because of the inertia developed by the weight of the parts and by the fact that diesel motors develop much greater torque. I once hooked a Furmanar-AR15-2 voltage regulator to a brand new Mccullough 7000 watt generator to see what the LED's would do. They flew from one end of the meter to the other so fast it would make your head spin. That $600.00 unit could not regulate that generator to any level I was satisfied with. The best idea I've heard is to use several deep cycle batteries with a high quality voltage inverter. I've never actually done it but after messing with gas generators, I'd go that route instead. Before you decide anything, think about what it would cost to repair your stuff if the power source is poor, TW

 

 

Gotta disagree with this assessment... While Large Diesel Gennies are a preferred setup for larger scale events, A good Gas Generator works just fine. THe Honda EU series are outstanding. I also have hooked up AR1215's to them and saw absolutely no voltage swings whatsoever. I also hooked them up to a DuroPower 7kw Gas Genny & the Voltage was stable.

 

Proof is in the fact that I've used Several EU3000i's hooked up to Several THousand Dollars worth of gear in a desert environment, under harsh conditions with no issues.

 

Best,

 

Todd A.

[RoadRanger]

"Normal" gas generators can have big voltage and frequency swings as the load varies (AKA kick drum hits ). "Inverter" type generators like the Honda EU3000i do not depend on running at a particular rpm to generate a stable voltage and frequency and in fact vary rpm with load by design. They really are cool magic .

[Tomm Williams]

Gotta respect your opinion as you have experience to back it up, but my experience is 180 degrees away. As I can get my hands on a diesel gen as easily as a gas, there is no way I will risk my equipment when I don't need to.

 

TW

[witesol]

does that honda have two 20amp outlets and one twist lock? nice unit about $2k

[agedhorse]

Good gas generators are just about as good as the smaller diesel gennys. The problem is that folks expect a $700 genny to work well and they just aren't that good.

 

The voltage is not so dependant on speed as freq. is. The regulation of the generator depends of voltage feedback through the field exciter windings so within reason the voltage will remain quite constant.

 

ALWAYS have a small load ~200-500 watts, on all generators to insure adequate cueent in the series field coil... this is also part of the regulation network.

[The Chinese]

 

does that honda have two 20amp circuits and one twist lock 30? nice unit about $2k

 

 

The EU3000i can output 23.3A continuous. Yes there is a Twistlock 30A receptacle, and also 2 Edison Plugs. I would not recommend trying to run them both at full load.

 

Todd A.

[gspointer]

Normal gas gennies regulate the rpm to maintain 60hz. As the load increases the throttle opens to maintain the freq. or rpm of the unit. This does not happen fast enough in the small gennies, and the will hunt as the load varies, resulting in unstable voltage and frequencies. The honda generators are an inverter, the frequencies is solid. I am not sure how stable they are with voltage as the current demand changes.

[The Chinese]

 

Good gas generators are just about as good as the smaller diesel gennys. The problem is that folks expect a $700 genny to work well and they just aren't that good. The voltage is not so dependant on speed as freq. is. The regulation of the generator depends of voltage feedback through the field exciter windings so within reason the voltage will remain quite constant. ALWAYS have a small load ~200-500 watts, on all generators to insure adequate cueent in the series field coil... this is also part of the regulation network.

 

 

I actually have a $700 genny that works great. Burn after Burn. Just some TLC every year, and it keeps on hummin'. It's a Honda Engine, so perhaps that's got something to do with it. I run all of our Ampifiers off it. but I use the Inverters for Signal processing, with a small UPS.

 

Todd A.

[Tomm Williams]

The OP's original question concerned a parade/float scenario. Does anybody out there see a totally different option? Regardless of what type of gen he uses (if) there will be added noise on the float that probably isn't welcome.

Plan C?

 

TW

[RoadRanger]

The EU2000i / EU3000i are crazy quiet!

[monthlymixcd]

For a parade of only an hour, an array of deep cycle marine batterys and a quality inverter might work. I've seen a local DJ run four EON15G1s for about 2 hours at moderate volume on an array of batts on the floor of his van.

 

Depending on what the tow vehicle has for electrical system, you might be able to run a pretty stout inverter off of it while it tows the trailer...

 

Neither of which would be near enough for those subs though...

[The Chinese]

 

The OP's original question concerned a parade/float scenario. Does anybody out there see a totally different option? Regardless of what type of gen he uses (if) there will be added noise on the float that probably isn't welcome. Plan C? TW

 

 

Well, the EU series Gennies are very quiet- We can have conversation at normal voice with one at our feet more or less. The other option is marine batteries, which work great, but could be a size issue, I think you'd need a fair bank of them to run that rig on a float...depends on how long the event is.

[Tomm Williams]

For a parade of only an hour, an array of deep cycle marine batterys and a quality inverter might work. I've seen a local DJ run four EON15G1s for about 2 hours at moderate volume on an array of batts on the floor of his van. Depending on what the tow vehicle has for electrical system, you might be able to run a pretty stout inverter off of it while it tows the trailer... Neither of which would be near enough for those subs though...

 

I once(many years ago) tried running a small powered board off of just a inverter plugged into a cigarette lighter outlet while the vehicle was running. I remember that as one of the dumbest audio stunts I ever pulled. Amp/board shut off about 3 times before the lights came on in my head. Since then, I've heard other folks talk about the above scenario. If I had to do a float, That's the way I'd do it today.

 

TW

[Shaster]

Checked on what my community group used, and they were the EU2000i and 3000i. both were very quiet. One of the generators was set-up (not by me) about 10' from the bandstand. The band had no issues with noise, or current for that matter.

 

And I don't work for Honda:)

 

The only thing I noticed is that after a reread of the original post, it seems you need to place the generator on the trailer/float itself. I personally have no idea whether this is advisable or not, but I would at least make sure the gennie is properly secured.

[jlindquist]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies.

 

For practical and logistical reasons, I don't think the batteries or diesel genny would be viable solutions.

 

I have seen the Honda's used in similar situations, and it sounds like others have as well.

 

Agedhorse: what is a practical way to maintain a 200-500 watt load? I seem to recall you may in the past have recommended running a small light bulb as a dummy load?

 

We are hoping to have the genny in the back of the pickup towing the trailer. Securing all of the gear will obviously be a priority.

 

And I will definitely make sure that all gear is turned off before the genny is.

 

Thanks!

[agedhorse]

 

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. For practical and logistical reasons, I don't think the batteries or diesel genny would be viable solutions. I have seen the Honda's used in similar situations, and it sounds like others have as well. Agedhorse: what is a practical way to maintain a 200-500 watt load? I seem to recall you may in the past have recommended running a small light bulb as a dummy load? We are hoping to have the genny in the back of the pickup towing the trailer. Securing all of the gear will obviously be a priority. And I will definitely make sure that all gear is turned off before the genny is. Thanks!

 

Yes, a small light bulb.

[agedhorse]

 

Normal gas gennies regulate the rpm to maintain 60hz. As the load increases the throttle opens to maintain the freq. or rpm of the unit. This does not happen fast enough in the small gennies, and the will hunt as the load varies, resulting in unstable voltage and frequencies. The honda generators are an inverter, the frequencies is solid. I am not sure how stable they are with voltage as the current demand changes.

 

 

All generators operate on this principle (except inverter based gennys) and as the diesel gennys typically are larger and have more rotational mass, there's more stored energy for dynamic carry-through.

 

This can also be problematic for very large gennys, as the short term short circuit current can be artifically large due to stored energy in the rotating mass of a large engine, flywheel and rotor. It's a double-edged sward.

[jlindquist]

Just a follow up on this older thread. The parade was yesterday, and all went very well. The Honda EU2000 generator performed flawlessly and was amazingly quiet. I think it was an excellent solution for this situation.

 

Thanks again to all who offered advice.

[RoadRanger]

They really are cool magic .

[agedhorse]

Anybody here have experience with "residential" grade slip-ring style gennys?