Members Axisplayer Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 Except that he works a lot of shows at rooms holding 600+ people where the system is just about adequate at best. He also works many college shows in large gyms and auditoriums. He doesn't work your corner bar shows. The rig is sized for the shows. His issue is that he is underpaid to bring in the second person he really needs because he gets too little money. It isn't my business model to defend, I am just stating the situation he is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 MG, his rig is a minimum of what is expected to work locally here even in bars, although that isn't where he spends a lot of his time. His rig is no larger than most bands around here carry. In fact the post about the Meyer rig is local to here also. The local bar/restaurant a few blocks from my house has a Friday night solo act from 5-8. He brings in one acoustic guitar and mic, plus a bass pedal rig. He carries a 20 space rack with all the processing most folks ever need. He has Ashley rack mount mixer, gates, compressors, QSC PL amps in a separate rack, 4 TX4 tops and 4 TRX 2x18 subs with Shure IEM and AT 3000 wireless. This bar holds 150 max and it fills to capacity every Friday night for him. The bar and customers expect that level of rig and want it. When he plays he has the rig sounding like a studio recorded CD. If that is the threshold for the solo acts, you can imagine what the bands bring in immediately after he plays. It can't be SOS. Further, this bar is the norm around here, not the exception. The EAW/Mixwiz rig I started my comments with is just an average bar rig around here and you will find twenty bands that carry as much or more than he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 Except that he works a lot of shows at rooms holding 600+ people where the system is just about adequate at best. He also works many college shows in large gyms and auditoriums. He doesn't work your corner bar shows. The rig is sized for the shows. His issue is that he is underpaid to bring in the second person he really needs because he gets too little money. It isn't my business model to defend, I am just stating the situation he is in. Hmm... I suspect he's in that situation not because he has to be, but because he doesn't know how to put himself in any other situation. Colleges are known for paying well, and if he can't get $200/show from them, I'd suspect that he's more to blame than the market. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 He's being paid by the bands that play the colleges. Promoters hardly exist in these parts except at the arena level. The band gets a gig and finds a sound guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted February 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 Huh. Didn't mean to get everyone all depressed!! Well, let's all hope the economy rebounds a bit and the price pressure levels off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 Huh. Didn't mean to get everyone all depressed!! Well, let's all hope the economy rebounds a bit and the price pressure levels off. And not just with sound reinforcement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 How does he run the FOH and monitor console at the same time?Back in the 80's and 90's there was a huge Rent Rock circuit up here - lots of work for Top 40 bands, six to seven nights a week. Every room I played typically had (per side) two or three bass bins double mids and horns, lights, monitors and a monitor board that sat on stage, with no operator. The monitor board was usually that Peavey six aux board, can't remember the model number. It was the one with the "funny" pots.The FOH tech would set it up initially and then if the band needed anything else he'd either fix it in a break or not at all. As a band member, it was usually up to me to ring out the monitors and fine tune people's levels. I didn't get any complaints from the techs who felt that monitors (and lights) were beneath them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 He's being paid by the bands that play the colleges. Promoters hardly exist in these parts except at the arena level. The band gets a gig and finds a sound guy.... The promoter would be the college, would it not? i.e. the folks actually paying for / putting on the show? I still stand by what I said - colleges are known for paying well and if he can't even squeak out $200 from those gigs, it's his own fault. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 The monitor board was usually that Peavey six aux board, can't remember the model number. It was the one with the "funny" pots.Peavey MD 16x6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 As the guy in the band with the PA, it just isn't worth it to me anymore to haul, set-up etc. a PA and lights. The money most of the bands get for a typical bar gig is pathetic. I think if I am going to continue to do this, I would prefer to hire sound and lights for 2-300 bucks, and call the left-over money gas and breakfast money. I really don't see it getting much better. DUI laws, smoking bans, and a greater tendancy for folks around here to stay home, I feel the bars, and bands that play in them are a dying breed. I drive by bars and see 2-6 cars outside on the weekends, I am not even sure how the bars afford to stay in business. If I am going to keep using my stuff, I think I would prefer to do a few outdoor parties a year at my place and a few of my friends that live in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Peavey MD 16x6? Or MK-III or Mk-IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Nice rig. That's gotta be tough getting turned down the $200 for a nice rig like that. We're not just getting turned down, we're not even getting any calls. I post the ads on Craigslist, at the local music stores, etc. Even with a "starting at $200" we get zero calls. What sucks is the few shows we've run for people, they've loved it. We're constantly told "you guys should charge more for what you've got", but when the calls aren't coming at this level, they won't come at that level either. I don't really care, since it's just fun side money, but I hate to see that thing just stacked up in a trailer for weeks not being used, you know? Axisplayer, we just played at Damons in Gloucester with that rig the other day, it sounded great in that room. I think they were happy with the volume level too, since we're all electronic and can keep it down. I'm hoping we get booked back. We were down a guy so we were limping along by the third set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 "We're constantly told "you guys should charge more for what you've got", but when the calls aren't coming at this level, they won't come at that level either." Totally your business and not mine, but have you considered perhaps charging a lot more? I have found that most people don't buy based on price, except in the sense that they simply tune out anyone who sounds too cheap to be good. Maybe that isn't true for your specific situation, but what do you have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I drive by bars and see 2-6 cars outside on the weekends. Glad it is better here. An empty bar is 75-100 people and a pretty decent one will have the parking lot filled with spillover into other businesses with 200+ inside. That is slower than last year, but clearly no where close to what you see. Our area has 7 contiguous cities with a combined population of around 2 million people. It looks like one city. In that area, we must have several hundred bars and clubs of varying sizes. I see few of them going under, even though most complain a bit. Lots are generally full, tables often hard to find. At good ones, standing room is hard to find. The worst paying clubs around here pay $600 a night. Most pay $800-1K. I bet that on a Saturday night, the combined pay of local bands playing would be around $200k....and thats during this bad year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Zeromus-X, I have worked Damons but not lately. I didn't enjoy it at the time. Setup couldn't start until 8:30, tables had to be cleared to make room for the band to set up on the floor, 2 circuits and one of them had the air exhaust units plugged in. It didn't work for me. They would tell you to turn it up so they could hear you at the bar in the back room, and you could go deaf in the room the band was in. I hear it has improved but haven't gone back to find out. I think that part of your problem working is that most musicians around here have no idea what a Meyer rig is, but would happily accept a Mackie rig. Send me a note next time you work the Peninsula area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 We're not just getting turned down, we're not even getting any calls. I post the ads on Craigslist, at the local music stores, etc. Even with a "starting at $200" we get zero calls.What sucks is the few shows we've run for people, they've loved it. We're constantly told "you guys should charge more for what you've got", but when the calls aren't coming at this level, they won't come at that level either. I don't really care, since it's just fun side money, but I hate to see that thing just stacked up in a trailer for weeks not being used, you know?Axisplayer, we just played at Damons in Gloucester with that rig the other day, it sounded great in that room. I think they were happy with the volume level too, since we're all electronic and can keep it down. I'm hoping we get booked back. We were down a guy so we were limping along by the third set. Do you call folks to sell yourself or are you just waiting for people to call you? -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Personally, I use craig's list, a facebook page, and a personal website to advertise my services. I am finding that even though I run for two of the best, most popular bands in Tulsa, I get little response save for lookers. I haven't called people as I don't have their phone numbers. I'm not busy every weekend, but the last thing I want to do on a day off is to go to a bar. I don't even drink. I need to spend time with the wife, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I agree. My wife has always supported my owning a company as long as I don't spend all my time away (we have an 8 yo son.) I do enough shows that I don't really want to do more, and I price my extra shows accordingly. Someone will really have to want me and only me to justify what I charge for the events I don't already have on the books for this year. I don't EVER go to a show unless I am working it, or unless they are really close friends that I need to support. The last place I want to be on a day off is in another bar with loud music. I get enough of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Now don't get me wrong. I would like to fill some of the "off" days I have with different one-offs. I just don't think that other bands in the area are capable of paying for my services like the more popular ones can. But, that's mainly why they ARE more popular. Now only if the up-coming bands would just realize that........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 What house gig did you get? Blackstone River Theatre in Cumberland. Two to three nights a week. Nothing in the summer though, leaves me open for festival stuff, works out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think that part of your problem working is that most musicians around here have no idea what a Meyer rig is, but would happily accept a Mackie rig. I have to disagree with this... Or at the very least, I'd say that while maybe MOST musicians couldn't tell the difference between a Mackie and a Meyer, the differences in the hardware itself are 100% irrelevant. What musicians CAN tell a difference in is the typical cost of a Mackie vs. a Meyer rig. If my 4-piece band is making $1k for a gig, or even $2k, and I can get a Mackie PA & SE that handles the show ok for $300, why would I consider a Meyer rig & tech that costs $500 or more? "Good enough to get the job done" is good enough for me. If one's business model is based largely on thinking that bands will not look for other options rather than spend 25-50% of their take for the night on PA, I wish them luck. IMO, if that's what it's going to cost to get sound for my band, my band will be buying our own PA, and then you get no cut of our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I agree. My wife has always supported my owning a company as long as I don't spend all my time away (we have an 8 yo son.) I do enough shows that I don't really want to do more, and I price my extra shows accordingly. Someone will really have to want me and only me to justify what I charge for the events I don't already have on the books for this year. I don't EVER go to a show unless I am working it, or unless they are really close friends that I need to support. The last place I want to be on a day off is in another bar with loud music. I get enough of that. I am to this point as well, and I know others (some specific lurkers I can think of) here can relate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LittleWiggler Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have the following rig: 2 JBL SRX 728's2 JBL SRX 722's2 JBL MR515 wedges2 EAW 210 wedges2 Crown MA9000i's2 QSC PLX 3602'sDBX Driverack 260Presonus StudioLive 1642 mixerDBX 1231 and DBX 2231 eqs for the wedges14' cube truck for transport I advertised locally on CL for $350 a night (with me driving). I can set it up in under 20 minutes (custom wiring and panels). All I got were responses that it was too much and that I really should be between 50-100 per night. The wear and tear, gas, and insurance cost more than 100 per night depending on the distance to the gig. Needless to say, it has been sitting for the last year except for the 4 shows last year with my band. The rig is completely paid for (I had a good run with a band that I made enough to pay for it). I bought the stuff when we were booked every weekend - and of course after I put it together the bar went under.... At 100 per night I would rather do a guitar fill in and rent a system. I am putting the rig up for sale. No reason for it to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 KMART, the point is that he is offering them a Meyer rig for the same price as the Mackie rig, but he is not getting the calls. Living in the same area he does, I can tell you that the musicians around here DO NOT recognize Meyer as a brand name. His might be the ONLY ones within a 100 miles of here. We are flooded with SRX and QRX at the upper levels, and most bands have JRX and Mackie. Meyer is not known here except by educated people (meaning people that have been exposed to them and know the difference.) The business model he has doesn't say charge them more, it says offer them better for the same price and he still doesn't get the calls..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Blackstone River Theatre in Cumberland. Two to three nightsa week. Nothing in the summer though, leaves me open for festival stuff, works out well. Thats cool, I have toyed with the idea of a house gig but I am not sure I really want to be tied down and commited to work every week(end).At least now if I don't feel like it, I don't work, and get someone to sub for me with there own gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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