Members blkmonday Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 ok well i guess it was my fault had a gig this sunday night outside on the water....our backs towards the sun...88 plus degrees prob more in the direct sun. had the ev's up on poles with there backs towards the sun. first set was fine...we were sweating our asses off...literally. played some mp3 music during the first break and noticed the sound on a few songs was quiet...then loud. three songs into the second set...the mains went into thermal. a few people in crowd pointed out they couldnt here vocals at all. right away i figured i shouldnt have used powered speakers in this heat and turned them off...took a 5 minute break. flipped my peavey passive monitors over to use as mains and turned the ev's around and covered them unplugged with table umbrellas over them for about 6 songs. nice save...of course i run my monitors dry so singing the bon jovi stuff...was not good choice..but the band insisted. luckily the audience felt my pain (i won them over early enough) they sang every note with me till the ev's cooled off. my battery in my in ears died at this point as well....ugh. i couldnt hear a thing...i may have possibly had every cat in towns attention at this point. then the ev's were cool to the touch and i spun them around and we saved it from there with some real sound. i got lucky this show...and learned id never trust powered mains...or at least my ev elx112p's in the heat ever again. god bless my passive peavey monitors. i guess it was my own stupidity thinking a powered speaker with no cooling fan in direct sunlight would survive this anyways so live and learn...and no bad feelings toward these speakers...but a big thumbs up to my peaveys for saving the day. next outdoor show the ev's stay home and the passive Carvins come out. I've worked those carvins and peaveys (passive i must add) speakers and Carvin amps in a zillion degrees on the beach with never a whimper. again live and learn....and fast thinking saved the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted July 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 i say my fault because i should have never thought these powered speakers should have functioned in that heat...total user error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Interesting - I was planning on using some powered tops next Saturday outdoors 10-6 and they're gonna be up full. I'm told it was so hot last year that nobody could stand in front of the stage - they had to huddle in the shade of the nearby buildings . Maybe I oughtta take the Impulse 1012's instead ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted July 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 i was always skeptical of running powered tops outside in high heat...now i know. be safe...bring the passives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted July 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 i was up in waterford at sunset ribs and it was from 5-9pm...not at high noon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Black metal facing the sun is going to get real hot. Shading the back of the speakers would have almost certainly saved them from thermaling. Also, as it was an outdoor show and fairly intense material (Bon Jovi), I'm assuming you were running the snot out of them too. You didn't mention the subs..... Did they thermal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 i was up in waterford at sunset ribs and it was from 5-9pm...not at high noon!Ouch, I'd not think a decent powered cab would thermal that late in the day! Was there any breeze at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I am interested in this thread. As a note, we ran three ELX112P's as monitors this past Friday for a four-hour gig starting at 2:00 PM on an outside deck. They didn't stumble at all. It was about a hundred degrees, but they were also being used as monitors which means their backs weren't fully exposed and they probably weren't running balls-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted July 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 i run passive jbl's for subs...they were fine...but they were in the shade under the stage...with the rest of the power amps. yea these suckers def had their ass to the sun....no breeze at all at that point. like i said..."my bad" im new to powered speakers...knew this might be a problem. just didnt expect it to be that hot at 5pm this sunday. glad they shut down like they were designed to do and not just burned up. also glad my monitors are passive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted July 12, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 sunset ribs in waterford ct is on the water...where i would have expected a cool breeze. not on the beach like some of my shows (where ill only bring out the passive stuff and hide the amps under the stage in the shade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 We're thinking about grabbing a pair of clip-on fans for our PRX612s in case we need to run during the day again. This thread is encouraging me further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I've used powered speakers for 7-8 years now and done sever shows around 90 degrees in the sun. It's not so much that you can't trust powered speakers, you just have to be smart about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 We're thinking about grabbing a pair of clip-on fans for our PRX612s in case we need to run during the day again. This thread is encouraging me further. A piece of cardboard gaffed to the back of the cabinet to act as a shade would probably be more effective. It's sun hitting black paint that's the killer. I'm surprised more metal back plates aren't silver. The new RCF 700 series has silver heat sinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Seems like a few of these newer high powered speakers have been having thermal shutdown issues lately when used in demanding situations... I've read of quite a few JBL PRX issues (one model in particular) but have also read of the EVs getting very warm to the touch and thermalling. If these speakers get hot in normal use, why don't manufacturers fix the problems before their customers experience failures during gigs? QSC put fans in their K boxes and they've been out for a while and I have yet to hear of a problem... I have yet to see a Yorkville powered speaker fail thermally - and God knows how many NX55Ps, NX25Ps, E500Ps, LS700Ps etc.. are out there and have been used and abused for the last 7 years or so... This might have been an extreme case, but I find it troubling to be reading of so many thermal issues on different forums. I thought we would no longer see such issues since the original Mackie SRM450's problems. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Seems like a few of these newer high powered speakers have been having thermal shutdown issues lately when used in demanding situations... I've read of quite a few JBL PRX issues (one model in particular) but have also read of the EVs getting very warm to the touch and thermalling. If these speakers get hot in normal use, why don't manufacturers fix the problems before their customers experience failures during gigs? QSC put fans in their K boxes and they've been out for a while and I have yet to hear of a problem... I have yet to see a Yorkville powered speaker fail thermally - and God knows how many NX55Ps, NX25Ps, E500Ps, LS700Ps etc.. are out there and have been used and abused for the last 7 years or so... This might have been an extreme case, but I find it troubling to be reading of so many thermal issues on different forums. I thought we would no longer see such issues since the original Mackie SRM450's problems. Al Quit reading DJ forums, most the posters are too stupid to be even drummers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 One of the features I looked for when buying powered speakers was a heat sink AND fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Al, I think "DJ" duty is harder on things since the music is ubercompressed and the rms to peak ratio is much higher than typical live music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 It's not a powered speaker issue. It's a dark metal and direct sun issue. Not rocket science, except on the DJ forums I suppose. Shade the damn speaker, end of story. PS, same thing happens to passively cooled amps like the GK RB-700 when it's hit with direct sunlight on a hot day. It's NOT a powered speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Quit reading DJ forums, most the posters are too stupid to be even drummers. Thank you for your helpful comment. I enjoy DJForums and feel like I have actually been of much help to many people who are starting out and are looking to make better choices in equipment. I will continue posting, reading and helping out on DJ Forums because I really enjoy it and many new DJs really need all the help they can get... Anyway, I would imagine that a good number of these "stupid DJs" are using cheap Behringer powered speakers and running them into clipping all night. I haven't read of a single Behringer going into thermal in the last few years... If Behringer can do it, JBL and EV should be able to do it 5X better. DJs may not be sound guys and might not get much respect on this forum - whatever -, but they don't post these threads just for the fun of it. Those who actually made an effort to save up their money and buy JBL PRX or EV powered cabs instead of EBay garbage get upset when these fail on them and with good reason. I just feel that these new high powered speakers were produced maybe a little too quickly to impress people with their high power and output and 1000 watt amps (after the popularity of the Ks), but they have trouble performing as they should when conditions are not ideal - which happens quite a bit in live sound and DJ applications : which is what these speakers are supposed to be designed for. I could really care less - I have all the reliable speakers I'll ever need - just my recent observations with which you don't have to agree. I have run my NX55Ps in less than ideal conditions for many hours on many occasions in the last 5+ years and they have only become slightly hot to the touch by the end of the night. They don't have built-in fans. They are simply well designed to be reliable in any condition that a live sound guy or DJ may encounter. When I spend 1000$ or more for a set of speakers, I expect them to be just that. (I understand that this particular situation was not typical, but I'm just talking in general) Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KellyMainEvent Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I had terrible issues with JBL PRX512m speakers 2 summers ago. I had 8x of them as wedges and they would all shut down at my festivals. I returned them and got 8x JBL MRX512m powered by QSC PL218 amps, with absolutely no problems at all 3 summers now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have run my NX55Ps in less than ideal conditions for many hours on many occasions in the last 5+ years and they have only become slightly hot to the touch by the end of the night. They don't have built-in fans. So when you sit them out with their backs to the sun they, defy physics and don't get hot? That thermodynamic property would make them much more valuable to the military than to a musician or DJ IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 So when you sit them out with their backs to the sun they, defy physics and don't get hot? That thermodynamic property would make them much more valuable to the military than to a musician or DJ IMO. FWIW, I will say my old NX550P's, precursor to the NX55P, did many an outdoor event in the sun and never thermalled. Then again I've owned 6 different powered speakers (all either RCF or Yorkville) and have never had a thermal shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I suspect Al's good luck has more to do with being up in polar bear country than any mystical properties of his vast collection of powered speakers . Actually I though that was mostly a south of the Mason-Dixon line problem until the OP posted here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 I suspect Al's good luck has more to do with being up in polar bear country than any mystical properties of his vast collection of powered speakers . Actually I though that was mostly a south of the Mason-Dixon line problem until the OP posted here . I would have to at least partly agree with you. A very hot day summer day here is around 30 celcius, but more typically 22-27 celcius is what we expect in the summertime. I have used my cabs in these conditions often enough, but rarely ever run them at maximum power for extended periods. Agedhorse, the Yorkvilles are certainly not magical speakers - but they do run very cool. The fact that Yorkville states in the litterature of some of their models that you can run them close to walls, clustered together etc.. would indicate that they have made extra sure that these speakers run as cool as possible. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff grocki Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ok so I may get flamed here. To each their own just my experience in the real world. I have had my PRX rig since last October. I have 2 625 2 615 and 4 xlf. I have run them indoors and out. Small gigs and full out slamming them with hip hop. I have used them at Sunset rubs. I ran my 615's over an XLF each side at the very Sunset ribs that is being discussed here. The band was a loud country rock band "branded" no issues. I set gain structure proper keep them out of the limiters but I hit them hard and had no issues with thermal there or any time yet with my rig. I cant help but wonder if we are looking at a not enough rig for the gig deal. Just an example was at a place in NL CT for sailfest. Nice house rig the new 3 way QSC KW's with 2 of the KW subs with the gains cracked WFO. One the of the tops popped out the hi freq driver, Cant help but wonder.?? I love my PRX rig and would buy again in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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