Members jgthatsme Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Last weekend I played a show at the Italian Heritage Festival in Buffalo, NY. Well, to give full credit to its chief sponsor, it was the Sorrento Cheese Italian Heritage Festival. It's touted as the second largest Italian-American festival in the United States with attendance for the four day festival pushing 600,000. It goes for several city blocks with repeater speakers every 100' or so. Doing some simple math, I guess I played for 150,000 on Sunday! Anyway, I'm not exactly sure what happened, but the FOH engineer on Sunday said he got called in at the last minute to run sound due to an illness of the regular guy. He seemed unhappy with the sound. Stage monitors (and there were many) were QSC HPR122i active cabinets. No complaints there. Not sure what the drum monitor was - might have been and HPR153i. Anyway, FOH was the JBL VRX stuff. There were four VRX918SP subs per side and four VRX932LAP tops per side. About 15 minutes into our set, I see the engineer call someone over and say something to him. About 30 minutes into our set, I see that someone wheeling in Yorkville TX cabinets. At the end of our set, they swap out the JBLs for two Yorkville TX9S subs per side and two TX8 tops per side. I couldn't believe the difference. The Yorkies totally spanked the JBLs. Not even close. The JBL subs would have been capable of 12,000 watts peak while the Yorkville subs would have been capable of 6,400 watts peak. JBL tops would have been capable of 14,000 watts peak while the Yorkvilles tops would have been capable of 4,080 watts peak. The JBLs should have blown away the Yorkies, but it was the Yorkies putting the JBLs to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Interesting, that is strange to have to Swap out stacks and racks mid-show. I would guess the jbl's were hung? I wonder what the sound guy was doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Peak watts really doesnt matter, the JBL is fed 750w each and has a max spl around 126db's in free space. The TX line is Yorkvilles top of the line tour grade equipment. Right tools-wrong tools I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 everyone loves the vrx and the new 900 series but me - i dont like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 I know one thing, as much as I always hated any type of horn-loaded boxes, I have loved the TX8's ever since I first heard them, I guess that was early to mid 90's. We had a local club that had them installed and it could get so loud that it wasn't funny, and it was crystal clear in that place. That was the best sound I have heard in a local club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Maybe you are right, but it seems like some kind of system mis-configuration/failure could also be in play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members camplg Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 everyone loves the vrx and the new 900 series but me - i dont like it. You are not alone, I will take rcf art series over prx and vrx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Preferences are one thing, but I can't imagine such a night and day difference and have to think something was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yeah, the won't change the front stacks "just because", something was out of order with the JBL rig. I say that not being a fan of their stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jgthatsme Posted July 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Interesting, that is strange to have to Swap out stacks and racks mid-show. I would guess the jbl's were hung? I wonder what the sound guy was doing wrong. JBL subs were on the ground with the tops on sticks. Two subs were stacked with two tops on sticks, and the other two were side by side. They didn't bother breaking down the JBLs...just put the Yorkies right in front of them. Other people there said they thought the JBLs sounded great...no problems at all, but then when they fired up the Yorkies, they said it was a better sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Without actually hearing this gig myself, it does sound like either user error or equipment failure. I've heard both systems and while there might be some subtle differences in the sound, I honestly couldn't imagine the VRXs being so bad that they would have to be switched out mid show. I do understand personal preference but to switch out FOH on the fly during the gig is pretty drastic. Makes me think the guy had no idea how to run an unfamiliar system. Congrats on that gig, though. What was the temperature like? We've been in the upper 90s and 100s for a week. That usually heads your way a couple days later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 22, 2011 CMS Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 I smell bull{censored}. Both are very good systems, so there's no reason for a claimed night and day difference other than failed parts or operator error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 So, each side had two stacks of JBL consisting of two tops over two subs each? I'd think those tops wouldn't like that configuration (being pairs stacked side by side instead of four all stacked). I don't know what the ground stacking kit for those tops lets you do but I'd have stacked them four high if possible? With only four subs per side to keep up with maybe it would have sounded better if they shut down the extra pairs of tops on each side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 22, 2011 CMS Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 So, each side had two stacks of JBL consisting of two tops over two subs each? I'd think those tops wouldn't like that configuration (being pairs stacked side by side instead of four all stacked). I don't know what the ground stacking kit for those tops lets you do but I'd have stacked them four high if possible? With only four subs per side to keep up with maybe it would have sounded better if they shut down the extra pairs of tops on each side? Well, we don't know what was "wrong" with the sound, so surmising a "cause" is the fool's errand. I smell an agenda. The guy running the board is a last-minute replacement. He brings his gear. He'd maybe like to make this a permanent gig, so it's in his best interest to be a hero. So the original system magically sounds like ass until, WAIT!, someone rolls in something else! It reads like an infomercial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, we don't know what was "wrong" with the sound, so surmising a "cause" is the fool's errand.I smell an agenda. The guy running the board is a last-minute replacement. He brings his gear. He'd maybe like to make this a permanent gig, so it's in his best interest to be a hero. So the original system magically sounds like ass until, WAIT!, someone rolls in something else! It reads like an infomercial. It does seem odd that within 15 minutes they were able to show up with amps, cabling and speakers. Heck that would take me at least 1/2 hour if I was at the closest place I play at, with the other rig loaded and ready to go back at the shop. It almost seems like they would have needed to have the "back-up" rig on site, with the stage-hands to do the swap-over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 it does seem fishy, unless the 900 system had issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 My guess is the There was a problem with the JBL rig and the Sound company had there B rig in the truck so they swapped it out. If this was the case then the JBL probably sounds better when working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 JBL subs were on the ground with the tops on sticks. Two subs were stacked with two tops on sticks, and the other two were side by side. They didn't bother breaking down the JBLs...just put the Yorkies right in front of them. Other people there said they thought the JBLs sounded great...no problems at all, but then when they fired up the Yorkies, they said it was a better sound. VRX was deployed incorrectly, or couldn't be deployed correctly. Should have been all four flown and clipped together. It's constant curve vs trap boxes where a trap box excels. Not a mystery here, VRX was used where the SRX, or TX in this case, would have been more appropriate. The VRX probably sounded good, but had no throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think something fishy is up with what happened at this event but....I am a big Yorkville fan and I have to say the TX series of cabinets are very hard to beat.My TX9s subs sound better every time I set them up, they have not left me wanting more in any venue I have had them in.....wish I could say the same about the EV QRX subs they replaced.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Two subs were stacked with two tops on sticks, and the other two were side by side. Someone should have informed the sound company that he was setting up an array system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 The real issue is that properly run, both systems are very good. JBL or Yorkville fanboys might have a preference but neither system would sound so bad that they would need to get switched out during a gig...unless there was an issue with the system or operator. The more I think about this the more I feel like there was some ulterior motive by the "replacement" sound guy. It also seems weird to stack an array system the way it was set up. I've never personally ran an array but this sounds a bit strange. Could just be a sound guy that has no idea how to setup and run that type of system. I don't recall ever seeing pole mounted VRX cabs on subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm guessing they took their two pseudo line array systems on a stick and tried to run them together because they didn't have a proper rig available. I've always found the "double your SOS system" look to be fugly at best if the tops are pointed in the same direction. I did look it up and you can ground stack four of them tops - but that gives you a 70 degree vertical which isn't generally useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't recall ever seeing pole mounted VRX cabs on subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jgthatsme Posted July 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, we don't know what was "wrong" with the sound, so surmising a "cause" is the fool's errand.I smell an agenda. The guy running the board is a last-minute replacement. He brings his gear. He'd maybe like to make this a permanent gig, so it's in his best interest to be a hero. So the original system magically sounds like ass until, WAIT!, someone rolls in something else! It reads like an infomercial. No...the replacement FOH guy worked for the same sound provider which I'm fairly certain was Indigo. As far as I know, they're the largest provider in our area (although their website doesn't list JBL VRX as an option). Indigo seems to run sound every time we do a big show and the sound provider is contracted out, and it's always been the Yorkville TX stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 If I read the OP's description of the VRX setup correctly, it sounds like the system was set up entirely wrong. Two tops on poles over the subs stacked next to another set is a great way to neutralize nearly any benefit the constant curvature array could give. I add a +1 to the ulterior motive theory supporters. Quality system set up correctly beats another quality system set up wrong any day no matter whose name is on the boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.