Does Anyone Really Believe that "Vintage Gear" is Better?

[Anderton]

Then again, you have to be careful what you mean by "vintage" gear. Many people seem to use it as if it means "analogue", yet I'm sitting here in the studio looking at a ton of vintage gear, classic signal processors used on famous recordings, and nowadays that means digital too, as well as analogue. After all, 1991 was 25 years ago; isn't 25 years enough to be called vintage?

 

That is indeed a slippery definition...I have a friend who is interested only in vintage analog synthesizers, but I think there are quite a few digital pieces of gear that qualify as vintage. To my way of thinking, instruments like the E-Mu SP-12, Ensoniq ASR-10, Korg Z1, etc. are if not "vintage," certainly not contemporary.

[UstadKhanAli]

I will be selling a "vintage" Roland XP-50 soon then....

 

Seriously, I would think that while we usually think of analog stuff, a really great, sought-after piece of gear that is digital and is 25+ years old would be considered vintage. Whether that's an effects processor like some of these great delay units or a great sounding synth or whatever, it's all good.

 

I think people are more concerned about whether something is useful, great sounding, and well-designed, regardless of age.

[Anderton]

I think people are more concerned about whether something is useful, great sounding, and well-designed, regardless of age.

 

...unless they're not very good musicians, so they can blame their gear

 

[AlamoJoe]

I think perhaps when it comes to signal processors, one must consider that analog models are worth more because there is a possibility of repair. With the digital signal processors of the same age...Once it smokes, it's done.

 

Probably why when I sold my Furman RV-1 a few years ago, I got twice what I paid for it, yet cannot get more than $20 for my Alesis Midiverb II. Which is ok, it still works as well as it ever did.

 

[Beck]

 

I would say within the next decade (2026), most of us will be working in a virtual studio. We will all be accessing our studio tools via a virtual reality in which we wear goggles and headphones that emulate famous recording studios from around the room. So for example, you can buy the Hit Factory Virtual Studio and have access to the same mixing board, outboard gear, etc... that once existed... of course, they`ll also the Abbey Road studio.... By 2050, we`ll be working in virtual reality with other musicians across the world, except it`ll seem like they are right there in the room with us. Holograms may be even part of the game by then.

 

I do believe controllers will continue to evolve as well and we will soon see a controller that connects somehow to a frontal cortex and we`ll be able to think a melody and it`ll play in our virtual room. The computer screen will also die away and soon we`ll be mixing on holographic screens that project out of our phone or something...

 

Vintage gear will be classified in the same category as the horse and wagon... out of date, expensive, ineffective, but romantic...

 

You're probably right, but I still ride horses and always will.

[UstadKhanAli]

I obviously love to record with real people in a real room and all, but what EB is describing above sounds like it could be cool. Except for the goggles and headphones.

 

So I look forward to that. But I also look forward to riding horses and romance.

[MikeRivers]

Gibson's Acoustic and Memphis have started using a thermal wood aging process so that even a new guitar can have a head start on that process. I'm personally interested in how this works, and hope to write an article for Gibson.com about what the process involves.

 

Back in the 1970s, someone studied a few Stradivius instruments with a mass spectrometer and concluded that Antonio Stradivari chemically treated his wood before he carved it into a violin.

 

[Hard Truth]

Digital recording is significantly more affordable and accessible for a much broader range of musicians. The combination of digital audio technology with the increased power of home computers has democratized music recording. In the past, an artist had to acquire a significant amount of funds or backing from a recording company to be able to access a recording studio and hire the required skilled technicians. Now almost anyone can record at home on their computer or even with their cell phone and burn and print professional appearing CDs and packaging at home.

 

The democraticization of recording does not mean that everyone is going to make a good recording, it still takes talent and skills. It is true that there is more bad music being recorded now than ever, but there is also much more good music. In particular, many more musicians who make experimental, niche or less commercial music are able to record and reach an audience. We would be getting more of the benefits of this glut of good music if radio stations didn't have such restricted playlists. The internet has helped make this music accessible but it takes motivation and an investment of time to find the good stuff.

 

Perhaps inevitably, this democratization of recording created a backlash. People seeking status do not want things that are accessible to the ignorant and lower income masses, they want things that are special and cost more.

 

I first noticed the analog trend in a particular recording magazine several years ago. (name withheld so they won't cancel my subscription again) Perhaps to differentiate themselves from their competition, the magazine largely featured hipster "indy" rock bands with a "retro" sound who chose to record on rare and expensive vintage analog equipment and largely ignored musicians who created music with low cost and efficient computer based digital recording systems. These hipster bands chose analog because it allowed them to record in the same manner as their heroes from the past and felt it gave their music a patina of credibility.

 

Not surprisingly, many manfucturers of audio recording equipment were happy to stop competing in the marketplace by selling increasingly affordable and powerful computer based products with slim profit margins. Now they can choose to sell expensive boutique-priced analog gear using older technology to affluent hipster musicians seeking status symbols instead.

 

from my article at http://www.oranjproductions.com/vinyl.htm

[Beck]

Then there is the very real "Mind thing" that can inspire creativity. If vintage equipment makes you feel in such a way that it opens your mind in new directions then yes, vintage equipment is better.

 

Cost and convenience considerations don't matter when measuring value from the feel perspective. It's like lighting a candelabra and putting it on your piano. You may compose something wonderful that simply would not be possible without that candelabra.

 

Opening a NOS box of Quantegy 456 analog tape and loading it onto a tape deck may be just the step I need to take me to a different place in my mind, creatively speaking. In fact I think it is for me anyway. I can open a box of tape and sniff it to arouse my creativity. Like my lover's perfume.

[Hard Truth]

Funny you should mention a candelabra for a piano, that was one of the things Charlie Tuna did to let Starkist Tuna know that he had good taste. This tendency is known as the the Charlie Tuna Syndrome when people do things to demonstrate to others that they have good taste. (which, of course, is not the same as doing something to set a mood for yourself)

 

"Charlie the Tuna is the cartoon mascot and spokes-tuna for the StarKist brand...The advertisements depicted Charlie (voiced by actor Herschel Bernardi) as a hipster wearing a Greek fisherman's hat and coke-bottle glasses, whose goal is to be caught by the StarKist company. Charlie believes that he is so hip and cultured that he has "good taste," and he is thus the perfect tuna for StarKist. Charlie is always rejected in the form of a note attached to a fish hook that says, "Sorry, Charlie." The reason given by the narrator (voiced by Danny Dark) for the rejection was that StarKist was not looking for tuna with good taste but rather for tuna that tasted good..."

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_the_Tuna

[Beck]

LOL I remember Charlie the tuna. As crazy as it sounds there are a lot of us who are old enough that our familiarity with candles and such for creating atmosphere precedes our introduction to Charlie.

 

Charlie is as likely to have the latest digital pugin to prove he's hip and current. He can't resist those ads that promise, "It will take your music to the next level."

[Luke17]

I love my 1979 walnut Gibson 'The SG' it was my 'go to' playing clubs and bars through the 1980's.

It was played through my '80 Music Man 210 seventy five RP..still have them both..the SG was dropped twice on stage and never suffered from the dreaded headstock crack until last year when I picked it off the rack to restring ,and dropped it..it has since been since been repaired by a competent luthier.

I mentioned in another post two other vintage amps that I love to mic..a 1965 Fender Princeton Reverb and a 1969 Fender Silverface Bandmaster reverb.

I love those Farkers to death..

old school here..no sims.

[AlamoJoe]

While I've recorded nothing anyone in these Halls that anyone would know of, much less take note of....What I consider my personal best has been recorded utilizing a miked up 1967 Silverface Fender Super Reverb, and a couple of Shure 57's.

 

[Beck]

Still love my Moog Opus 3 I've had since it was new, about 1980. I was one of the first, famous or not famous people to get an authentic sounding highly compressed lead guitar sound with a keyboard using that Opus through guitar effect pedals. People heard that stuff then and still now hearing my old stuff they say WTF I didn't know your were like Eddie Van Halen on guitar. I say, I'm not, that's a Moog synth carefully tweaked and run through guitar effects. My primary instrument is piano/keyboards. I play guitar, but not like that. Some people have not believed I did that with a keyboard and think I'm yanking their chain. I've had friends over the years try to replicate it, but they can't.. analog synth through analog effects, and still nothing out there now comes close except for guitar players who can rip it up like that. So again, there are some things worth holding onto, or acquiring if you don't have them. And that goes for new or old gear. I totally get that a new piece of gear or plugin can inspire creativity, but so can a vintage one.

[bookumdano4]

on my local craig's list anything over 15 years old is listed as vintage:

 

In California, it's 18. Well, 25 really.

 

[bookumdano4]

 

Opening a NOS box of Quantegy 456 analog tape and loading it onto a tape deck may be just the step I need to take me to a different place in my mind, creatively speaking.

 

In the studio, I can do that with incense, my 1967 bead collection handy, and blue lighting. And I'm not joking!! As an aside, I never conceived of the concept of nos tubes and nos tape. I still have bazillions of tubes my dad had in the 1950s and bazillions of still-celo wrapped 456. Technically, they're newnewstockinanewdimension I guess. What's around now that will be nos in 2030? Butter? Finger-ease? circa 2016 silica thingees in guitar cases?

 

[bookumdano4]

Yeah well...I believe this is the same Ray Kurzweil who had a hard drive hidden until the table, and streamed samples from that, when the first Kurzweil was demoed at AES. At the time, I was blown away to be able to play a sampler with no detectable split points. It was unprecedented at the time, and I wrote about what I experienced in glowing terms.

 

Years later a Kurzweil employee said I'd been purposefully deceived, and that the samples were not playing from RAM as had been claimed. They had reprinted my glowing quotes, and I felt used.

 

Kurzweil the company also appropriated my technique to emulate Minimoog envelopes and was upfront that the idea was taken from a column I wrote for Keyboard, without credit.

 

They're entitled to do that, of course. But contrast that to Line 6, which based an effect on something I'd written in Electronic Projects for Musicians that was legally "dedicated to the public," but they still credited me. Or Steinberg, who virtualized my Quadrafuzz and again, though it was dedicated to the public, insisted on crediting and compensating me. Or Hartley Peavey, who wanted to use one of my circuits and I told him to go ahead, no problem. He said "I can't do that." I told him seriously, it was fine. A few weeks later a TriFlex PA, Peavey amp, and T-60 showed up because he felt he owed me something. Or iZotope...before they introduced Trash, they said it was based on my work, and they wanted to know if I would be upset if they copied it. I told them that I would instead be flattered and proud to be associated with people who take intellectual property that seriously.

 

So "genius boy" Ray Kurzweil...no, I don't have a very high opinion of him.

 

 

Well that is so interesting. When was this general timeframe? When Emu IIs and Memorymoogs etc were around? There was a time in Namm history where Kurzweil was considered a biggie attraction booth to visit and I would always just buzz by, not visiting it, every show. Seems it was when Emulators and Fairlights were getting big. I wasn't much interested in a piano at that time.

[Beck]

 

In the studio, I can do that with incense, my 1967 bead collection handy, and blue lighting. And I'm not joking!! As an aside, I never conceived of the concept of nos tubes and nos tape. I still have bazillions of tubes my dad had in the 1950s and bazillions of still-celo wrapped 456. Technically, they're newnewstockinanewdimension I guess. What's around now that will be nos in 2030? Butter? Finger-ease? circa 2016 silica thingees in guitar cases?

 

And you should do that then with incense and beads in the context of the meaning and feel of creating atmosphere. Ritual is a fundamental part of the human experience in many areas of life. We're talking about music here, but that's just one area. And if the ritual that helps a person be creative is constantly acquiring new stuff, then let them do that. This is very much a to-each-his-own proposition.

 

I like blue lighting too by the way. An artist should be attune to his/her senses... be aware how involved they are in the creative process. Being as I have never stopped using tape I've never lost touch with that ritual of opening a new tape. I don't use vintage anything because it might be trendy at times, just like I don't feel pressure to keep upgrading and buying new stuff. I could care less. I've seen vintage gear fads come and go. I ignore them.

 

If you do ever decide to try any of your NOS tapes, be careful. Some tapes are problematic. I know which ones are good by date of manufacturer, box style, and other means. I'm only using 1/2" and 1/4" tape these days. The tapes I have will outlive me and I'm not even half done living yet.

[MikeRivers]

 

 

Well that is so interesting. When was this general timeframe? When Emu IIs and Memorymoogs etc were around? There was a time in Namm history where Kurzweil was considered a biggie attraction booth to visit and I would always just buzz by, not visiting it, every show. Seems it was when Emulators and Fairlights were getting big. I wasn't much interested in a piano at that time.

 

I remember going to a hotel room demonstration at NAMM when Kurzweil came up with their first piano. At the time, there were plenty of synthesizers and samplers, but none of them did piano very convincingly. Kurzweil did it better, though at a price that approached a fair-to-middlin' piano.