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Are modern DJ's the demise of Live Bands


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I have a question for the DJ's out there. Do you take it personally when you don't get "dancers"? I ask because, if you're a DJ providing the simple service of playing music through a PA system, is there much you can do if people aren't responding? I suppose you can read the crowd and adjust better than a band could since you have "the world of music" at your fingertips. At the same time, I assume you're often playing mostly from a list that the client provided and you're not performing the tune so you can't take that part personally. I'm just curious.

 

Obviously we try and get dancers, but I'm of the opinion that if the dancin' ain't in them then they ain't gonna dance. I actually poke around while talking to prospective clients to try and tell if they have a dancing crowd. Generally they do and say as much as part of why they want a live band so fortunately I can only think of 2 weddings since 2006 that were busts as far as next to no dancing.

 

FWIW, I've done weddings long enough that I've been in hotels or event venues with multiple weddings going. It's always us and DJ's. I can't think of a time where there was another band. At these other events I've walked by slowly or poked my head in the room and noticed A) usually 0 - 10 people are dancing and 2) the sound is absolutely awful. Most DJ gear I see is either a monstrosity of 30 yr old ridiculously large and heavy cabinets with tops sat on top of subs and the horns at about 5ft or so or a couple low end powered speakers on sticks with no sub. The sound is either all "woof" or a 2K splat that is annoying as all hell. Obviously in these cases the entertainment was a complete afterthought in that it got the least amount of attention, and budget, even though it's 50% of the reception time. Meanwhile they'll spend more on the cake than the DJ. That always kills me.

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These days I'm primarily a club DJ, and if I don't get dancers I don't work. It's as simple as that. There's a lot to this that non-DJ's don't realize...

 

When I've done weddings either in a band or as a DJ I want to get some dancing beyond the obligatory stuff at the beginning of the reception, but don't take it personally if they don't much either. Probably like you I've done some rip-roarin' drunkfests and some uptight way-too-polite things. It is what it is...

 

One of the weirdest weddings I've done was for my own son just a few months ago. I knew up front that he and his friends were probably not going to dance just because of who they are, and I was right. The music selection was all done by my son and the bride, and it was for the most part game music. When I'd put in the theme of a really popular game, the crowd would stop talking, ooh and aah, and then resume their conversations.

 

Abzurd I'm amazed that practically all of your weddings are for millennials. That's the one group that seems to always want a DJ around here, but I'm not into weddings as much as you are. I only do a handful of them a year.

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Abzurd I'm amazed that practically all of your weddings are for millennials. That's the one group that seems to always want a DJ around here, but I'm not into weddings as much as you are. I only do a handful of them a year.

 

 

I think part of it is younger people have the more traditional bigger weddings. I would also guess more often younger couples have financial assistance in paying for the shindig too. I've had MANY fathers of the bride introduce themselves to me with a joke about being the "the guy that paid us". Older couples and second + weddings aren't often high budget events. Given that and the fact the percentage of couples hiring bands for their receptions is certainly in the single digits, statistically that puts the majority of our would be employers in their mid to late 20's.

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I truly believe that a good entertainment band can kick the ass of all but the best DJ's any day of the week... and even a fair fight between a good entertainment band and a great DJ would be a push depending on what the client really wants.

 

On the otherhand, I think it's pretty easy for even a mediocre DJ that even sort-of has their game plan together to easily take the upper-hand, especially at weddings, over a typical bottom of the barrel want-to-be, but won't go to any true effort to get there band.

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We've tailored our set list to work for bars and weddings. You always hear on forums about bands playing those old tired songs....well they are played for a reason. Bud Light ain't a very good beer but they sell a ton of it! We play what sells. So Brown Eyed Girl, Play That Funky Music, and Sweet Caroline are on the list an you know what? the 20 somethings dance the hell out of those songs. So, while we have artists like Tiao Cruz, Black Eyed Peas, Adele, Jason Mraz, Cee Lo Green and Daughtry on the list we also have Bob Seger, Kool & The Gang and Skynyrd on there too. We are a straight up sell out cover band and make no apologies.


One of our best compliments is below. Being able to satisfy 3 generations isn't an easy task.


"Hello and thank you soooooooo much! You guys did a great job and I got alot of comments on how well you guys did.... Also, our parents and grandparents loved you guys which made me especially happy."

 

 

I wouldn't say you guys were the average band. Things like your well above average sound, and show aspects, like your Sweet Caroline Cam put you in a different category. And yes when I play a Top 40 casual gig, Brown eyed Girl, Play That Funky Music, Long Train Running and such still make the grade.

 

I agree with your comments that followed this post regarding DJ's. I often play hotel lounges, and I too get a glimpse of what's going on in the ballrooms.... I'm amazed at how many DJ's don't get the crowd dancing. I know I must be missing something, but if I had almost every tune in the world at my disposal, I'm pretty sure the dance floor would be packed. Maybe there's too much choice....

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It is MUCH easier to make DJ music sound good. It is MUCH easier to setup and break down (and load). It takes MUCH fewer people to do it. It takes MUCH less space. It is MUCH easier to control the volume, etc, etc.

 

The only advantage that a live band has IMHO is that they are more engaging and more visually pleasing to watch.

 

That is a really tough bunch of advantages for DJ's over the few for a live band.

 

I remember about 10-15 years ago there were many clubs that featured live bands ..... they were packed every weekend. What a difference a decade makes.

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Your success in getting a crowd to dance has a little to do with your experience as a DJ or band, a little to do with the lighting/general atmosphere of the venue and number of people present BUT a lot to do with how much the crowd has had to drink earlier in the evening and just how long they've been waiting for the music to start...

 

The worst occasions I've done in my 20+ years as a DJ were small weddings or worse small events where there was no meal or speeches before the dancing portion of the evening was to start. There needs to be some build-up, anticipation and consumption of alcohol for most people to want to shake their groove thing to the sounds of any band or DJ. The better the band or DJ, the longer the people will stay and the fuller the dance floor will be. It does seem to take a combination of ingredients for a truly successful night of dancing and partying IMO. - and some good powered speakers to deliver the good sound that is the icing on the cake of course :-)

 

Al

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It is MUCH easier to make DJ music sound good. It is MUCH easier to setup and break down (and load). It takes MUCH fewer people to do it. It takes MUCH less space. It is MUCH easier to control the volume, etc, etc.


The only advantage that a live band has IMHO is that they are more engaging and more visually pleasing to watch.


That is a really tough bunch of advantages for DJ's over the few for a live band.


I remember about 10-15 years ago there were many clubs that featured live bands ..... they were packed every weekend. What a difference a decade makes.

 

 

Live Bands however have the live element, i.e., rewording of songs would be one thing and an advantage, you can't do that with a dj per se, unless I suppose special software to take the vocals out etc, but doubt few of us (DJ's) have that capability.

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Your success in getting a crowd to dance has a little to do with your experience as a DJ or band, a little to do with the lighting/general atmosphere of the venue and number of people present BUT
a lot
to do with how much the crowd has had to drink earlier in the evening and just how long they've been waiting for the music to start...


The worst occasions I've done in my 20+ years as a DJ were small weddings or worse small events where there was no meal or speeches before the dancing portion of the evening was to start. There needs to be some build-up, anticipation and consumption of alcohol for most people to want to shake their groove thing to the sounds of any band or DJ. The better the band or DJ, the longer the people will stay and the fuller the dance floor will be. It does seem to take a combination of ingredients for a truly successful night of dancing and partying IMO. - and some good powered speakers to deliver the good sound that is the icing on the cake of course :-)


Al

 

 

Yes and this DJ needs that time for few beverages or "warm up" as well!

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I have a question for the DJ's out there. Do you take it personally when you don't get "dancers"? I ask because, if you're a DJ providing the simple service of playing music through a PA system, is there much you can do if people aren't responding? I suppose you can read the crowd and adjust better than a band could since you have "the world of music" at your fingertips. At the same time, I assume you're often playing mostly from a list that the client provided and you're not performing the tune so you can't take that part personally. I'm just curious.

 

 

As a DJ who used to play in bands in the '90s, I work hard to keep the dance floor going the whole night. I'm mortified if a track clears the dance floor and it's usually a song specifically requested by the couple. I'll fade out of that and move in a different direction to get people back on the floor. Plus, I've been DJing weddings long enough (since 2003) that I know how to pace things for the typical three-hour dance party. I play anything and everything, whatever it takes to keep 'em dancing. Last weekend I had a request for salsa music, which isn't my usual forte, but was able to piece together a cool four-song block that had them going nuts. This was after an '80s alt-block ("Do you have anything by The Smiths?" - um, yeah, I have all their albums.)

 

I'm also working on upgrading my sound system. Currently running RCF but am looking at KV2 and Danley, maybe even renting a Meyer UPA/USW system later this month for a Friday/Saturday weekend. Plus, 90% of my songs are full-size AIFF files rather than MP3s. It's all just for fun to keep me sane after my 40-hour a week corporate gig. But I like to have nice toys even if the crowd wouldn't know Meyer or Danley from anything.

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Dude WTF is up with the smiths, I have a wedding this Saturday and guess what "smiths" are on the list with that "morrisey" slit my wrist and die group sigh....Maybe I'm just too old to understand.

 

Ha! For me it was all the 40ish people at the wedding as I was playing Erasure, Depeche Mode, the SAFETY DANCE :), and General Public. I finished the block off with The Smiths as the requested song was a deep album cut but it still went over. I love that stuff so I was having a great time.

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Bumping a very old thread, but this is very much on my mind, as we attempt to re-vamp our band for the wedding/corporate market. I have done research, and found this table on the peakdj.com website. I am attempting to address each issue individually with our band, as well as considering more "current" threads, such as the "silent stage" discussion.

[TABLE]

[TR]

Band DJ [/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Setup Flexibility: A band's setup is much more complex than that of a DJ. This can prevent a band from being able to cover the ceremony, cocktail hour and reception, all of which are usually held in separate locations.[/TD]

[TD] Setup Flexibility: A well-organized and properly-equipped DJ can easily address the unique needs of weddings, with separate systems for the ceremony, cocktail hour and reception.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Breaks: Bands usually play about 20-30 songs, filling 1/2 to 2/3 of the time for which they are hired. The rest of the time, they take breaks, ending the momentum of the party. [/TD]

[TD] Breaks: DJ's keep the music going (and your guests dancing) all night without taking breaks.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] Stage Presence: People go out to see a band. They go out to danceto a DJ. Bands offer a stage presence that commands attention and works well for couples seeking to put on a "show" at their reception, rather than have non-stop dancing.

[/TD]

[TD]Stage Presence: Conversely, couples looking for a less intrusiveapproach may prefer a professional, unobtrusive DJ.... One who can maintain constant excitement on the dance floor and keep the focus of attention on the couple and their celebration (the dance floor), rather than on the DJ (the stage).[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] Volume Level: Music volume levels are a serious concern for wedding guests who want to be able to converse at the reception. Bands have limited control over their sound levels and generally play much louder than a DJ.

[/TD]

[TD] Volume Level: The higher production quality of recorded music, with every instrument and vocal balanced in the studio, makes it sounds great at any volume level. This allows the DJ to adjust levels as necessary throughout the event.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] Music Variety: Bands are limited to what songs they know how to play well. Many play the same 20-30 songs at every reception. Very few have the ability to play the vast array of musical genre required by the mixed age groups at most weddings.

[/TD]

[TD] Music Variety: A DJ can offer nearly limitless variety and flexibility, from classics to current. Being able to play Duke Ellington, Journeyand Katy Perry allows a DJ to create a truly tailored play list and keepall your guests happy.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Song Familiarity: People like to dance to music they know. Bands do their best to imitate the way a song should sound, but many bands lack the instruments for all the parts (no trumpet for the trumpet solos, etc.) and few have both a male and female vocalist. Listening to a less than spectacular band attempt to cover your favorite song can be a painful experience. [/TD]

[TD] Song Familiarity: A DJ can play exactly the music you have imagined for your wedding: your favorite songs by your favorite artists that sound exactly as you and your guests expect them to sound. We live for those moments when we hit the start button and immediately hear a guest say "I love this song!"

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] Reliability: If one member of a band can't do the event, trying to find someone to play the same instruments and know the parts of the other band members can be nearly impossible, thereby forcing the band to cancel.

[/TD]

[TD] Reliability: A reputable DJ company will always have another trained DJ on stand-by to cover an event when necessary. We regularly receive last-minute calls during the wedding season from couples who's bands or single-operator DJs have cancelled.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] Cost: A great wedding band can cost several thousand dollars.

[/TD]

[TD] Cost: A great DJ can be had for under $2000.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Anybody got any thoughts on this?

 

jamieb

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I thought I was high priced at minimum of a 1000.00, guess I'm not.

Couple things, regarding the chart, I beleive the average wedding dance to be approximately 65 to 100 songs depending upon the length of the dance and how much beat mixing you are doing (do 1 min from song mix to next and so forth) obviusly this varies depending upon the client and the DJ.

 

I think there is a new era, the instant gratification market, the availablitiy of songs for free on the internet and technology. Also recent changes in PA gear is making it easier for anyone to grab a mp3 player (whether it be laptop, ipod, ishout, ithis ithat) plug into a powered speaker (no more amps, racks of gear and passive speakers to mess with) using your little patch cord and you have instant DJ. So if everyone has a cousin with 2 powered speakers and a IPAD now Cousin Joe is a DJ. Easy as that. Even 10 years ago, this really didn't exist, still need a mixer, a controller (if you needed it) and most of the time two CD decks, amplifer for speakers (even wo subs still have to have some knowhow on pa systems) and again this has been simplified to a player, cord, speakers, let it crank. Now all the other stuff, controllers, lights, this is all gravy but if Cousin Joe will do it for $50 cause he got nothing better to that day anyway it sure does kill the pro $2000.00 market very quickly.

 

 

We are well equipped as DJ's but know hearing from other live bands who do wedding work they can also provide a mic during the happy hour etc, almost have to in order to meet the needs of the client these days.

 

I do remember all bands seeing a as kid, re longevity, those dances were almost always 8 to 12 or 9 to 1 or 4 hours. I have never had a wedding at 4 hours when doing the DJ thing, it's always 3 PM until close, even if you get done at midnight it's still a 9 hour day (without the setup.takedown)

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Thanks for posting that. All of those points are true and are things we specifically work to overcome. I like this format and might copy it for our website.

 

My response to this:

 

Setup Flexibility:

We have smaller "satellite" setups and systems we use to cover these other elements of your event. But instead of just setting up another speaker to play even more boring recorded music for your ceremony or cocktail hour, we can perform LIVE at these as well.

 

Breaks:

Breaks, if any, are filled with DJ style dance music. Just like the DJ would do. The party keeps going.

 

Stage Presence:

Our shows are about the guests and audience and your event, not about the band. Yes, we're fun to watch but we're even more fun to participate with and get involved in the performance. You can get up on stage and party with a band and play rock star. Who wants to get up on stage and party with the DJ? BORING.

 

Volume Level:

The use of state of the art modern sound equipment results in very controlled and low-volume stage sound. The days of "limited control" over their sound levels are over.

 

Music Variety:

We cover all eras and genres of music in manners faithful to the originals. Duke, Journey, and Katy are all no problem. And besides, it's about knowing WHICH songs to play and how to perform them in the most entertaining manner possible, not simply having access to the largest playlist possible. If that's all you want, then just use your iPod or turn on Pandora.

 

Song Familiarity:

See above. And beyond being able to recreate the original versions of songs faithfully, our live band is able to take the performance to a higher and more exciting level. A DJ can spin a record that sounds just like the record. Big deal. My grandmother can do that.

 

Reliability:

When you hire a professional band, you're paying for their reliability as well.

 

Cost:

You get what you pay for. You're not going to feed your guests hamburgers and hot dogs are you? So why would you give them anything less than a top notch full-entertainment musical performance?

 

 

 

 

 

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I think there is a new era, the instant gratification market, the availablitiy of songs for free on the internet and technology. Also recent changes in PA gear is making it easier for anyone to grab a mp3 player (whether it be laptop, ipod, ishout, ithis ithat) plug into a powered speaker (no more amps, racks of gear and passive speakers to mess with) using your little patch cord and you have instant DJ. So if everyone has a cousin with 2 powered speakers and a IPAD now Cousin Joe is a DJ. Easy as that. Even 10 years ago, this really didn't exist, still need a mixer, a controller (if you needed it) and most of the time two CD decks, amplifer for speakers (even wo subs still have to have some knowhow on pa systems) and again this has been simplified to a player, cord, speakers, let it crank. Now all the other stuff, controllers, lights, this is all gravy but if Cousin Joe will do it for $50 cause he got nothing better to that day anyway it sure does kill the pro $2000.00 market very quickly.

 

 

Cousin Joe can BBQ up some tri-tips too, if that's the way you wanna go.

 

The trick to selling a wedding is you're selling an entire day of high-end experience and having a live band is part of that. With a live band costing $5K and up for a wedding, you aren't marketing to the budget-conscious customer.

 

I see it as three separate price points. High end customers are going to be looking at live music. Mid level customers are going to be looking at DJs. Low end customers will DIY it.

 

The trick is keeping them separate. As a band, my concern is the high-end customer who thinks that a DJ is not only cheaper (which they may not even care about) but is actually BETTER. Unfortunately, too many lousy bands have reinforced this opinion, so it can be hard work sometimes to overcome.

 

DJs need to do the same thing if Cousin Joe with an iPod is cutting in on their market share. Make sure people are getting something for their $2K DJ that Cousin Joe can't do. Better mixing, better control over the event, lighting, etc.

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I think mainly it is a cost thing. Couples are looking at do I spend $2500 for a band or much less on a DJ and get nicer flowers or an upgraded honeymoon? Of course the plug in the IPOD group is people on a super low budget or not thinking. One wedding I provided sound for the brides maid had created a 3 hour play list and once I got it setup I sat back and drank some beers. (friends wedding and they are by no means struggling) They were trying to stay in a 80s song mode and she had some good songs but the volumes would go way up and down and she would play some non danceable music too. Luckily they were pretty well loosened up and it went ok. The brides maid couldn't understand why people weren't so into her selections. So the wedding got a pretty poor performance even though the equipment was good but the bride had decided to let her friend be in charge of the music. (big mistake) I see the music being an after thought at many weddings.

 

That said I have been to budget weddings where they have put more than half the budget in the band and it was great. (Bill Kirchen and too much fun) guitarist from Commander Cody rocks the house.

 

Upscale wedding still have bands around here but more and more you are seeing DJs. Some have both.

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I think mainly it is a cost thing. Couples are looking at do I spend $2500 for a band or much less on a DJ and get nicer flowers or an upgraded honeymoon?....

 

Upscale wedding still have bands around here but more and more you are seeing DJs. Some have both.

 

It's a sales thing. Something most musicians aren't that good at doing (which is why there are booking agents). If it's a matter of better entertainment vs. nicer flowers.... then that's on the band to sell how important live music is.

 

Yes, live music is more an upscale wedding thing. The cost of a good band demands that. Which is fine by me...I only need to book a handful of upscale weddings a year to keep the schedule full. I'm not looking to fill the schedule with lower paying gigs.

 

But for bands that want to compete directly with DJs for the $2K gigs---I think that could/should be done as well. But a $2K DJ knows how to put on a damned good wedding usually. Bands that just set up and play a couple of sets of music aren't going to be able to compete --- which is largely why live music gets a bad rep. I'm all for bands working harder to kick things up a notch.

 

I think musicians tend to be lazy way too much. Yes, we all get into playing music because we're talented at it and we enjoy playing/performing. But that still doesn't mean that being good at it isn't hard work. Doing anything -- even things you love doing --- at a professional level demands hard work. Whether that's sports or music or just about anything else.

 

There are a few notable comments I hear repeatedly at weddings we play:

 

1) "when I first saw it was a live band I thought "ugg! boring!" but you guys were so much fun!!" Great they thought we were fun (that's my goal) but I'm bothered by the fact that they come into the event with the preconceived notion that a live band will be boring. Whose fault it that??

 

2) "by far the best part of our day was the music and the dancing!". It should be. Yeah, the ceremony will be beautiful and the food tasty and the flowers are nice. But the music and dancing is where the fun and the party is at. It what will take their wedding and make it a "special event".

 

That's the way we sell it anyway. It's the way it HAS to be sold, IMO. Gotta do what DJs can't if you're gonna beat 'em out for the gigs.

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One of the best compliments I received in our band was this. The person was out getting a drink (the bar is outside the actual hall, kind of an entryway area with the bathrooms etc. 0CF93129-51CE-43A7-8EF6-FE3D631752EF.jpg The music started and "I thought, oh the band is starting soon, they are playing this CD song louder, but when I went in, it was the band". 0CF93129-51CE-43A7-8EF6-FE3D631752EF.jpg A lot of times we load out the next day, and if the bride & groom show up they always say "everyone had a good time and everyone was taking about how fun the band was." I DJ but I always see if they want the band. I make less personally in the band but its a lot more fun!! 0CF93129-51CE-43A7-8EF6-FE3D631752EF.jpg Here's us playing a wedding that took place on NYE. 300 people. I'm the fatass doing the solo...

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I've said what I want to say already (2 years ago) but bands need to step it up as far as all the reasons Craig pointed out. It hurts our segment of the market even more to be screwing around. It falls into the cousin bringing an iPod to dj with.

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Unfortunately to a great extent, I'd say yes. One of the venues that I work for is a country bar. It is a mix of Live & DJ music (4 nights X 4 sets of live music per week). If you watch the people, they just want to line dance and they do so whether it's a band or canned music. The amount of dancers has more to do with which song is playing than what the source is (actually they remind me of a bunch of lemmings - that dance because there is music and a floor with a zombie like stare - very strange). I of course don't want to tell management this because they would stop hiring bands and go full time DJ (leaving me with less work). Ideally this money could go to book a much better venue on the property (less often but with higher quality music) but the mind set of this latest crop of folks would be to just pocket the difference (forget BUILDING a business, it's about "how low can we go?" :-).

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One of the best compliments I received in our band was this. The person was out getting a drink (the bar is outside the actual hall' date=' kind of an entryway area with the bathrooms etc. [img']http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/0CF93129-51CE-43A7-8EF6-FE3D631752EF.jpg[/img] The music started and "I thought, oh the band is starting soon, they are playing this CD song louder, but when I went in, it was the band". 0CF93129-51CE-43A7-8EF6-FE3D631752EF.jpg A lot of times we load out the next day, and if the bride & groom show up they always say "everyone had a good time and everyone was taking about how fun the band was." I DJ but I always see if they want the band. I make less personally in the band but its a lot more fun!! 0CF93129-51CE-43A7-8EF6-FE3D631752EF.jpg Here's us playing a wedding that took place on NYE. 300 people. I'm the fatass doing the solo...

 

Your link isn't working for me.

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