Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Absolutely, verify that it's not the driver. Then, request an RA for the amp module itself. That's the proper way to handle this, and it's no different than repairing a conventional amplifier. This is not rocket science, it should be an easy process. Let's hope it's better than Harman's new service debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Absolutely, verify that it's not the driver. Then, request an RA for the amp module itself. That's the proper way to handle this, and it's no different than repairing a conventional amplifier.This is not rocket science, it should be an easy process. Let's hope it's better than Harman's new service debacle. I am pretty possitive it is not the driver, I am going to try the repair place that Mike M listed as they are only 20 minutes away and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well...I can scratch ATR Treehouse off the list, they will be without a service tech for an un-certain amount of time... Have a few others I can try, we'll see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 I am pretty possitive it is not the driver, I am going to try the repair place that Mike M listed as they are only 20 minutes away and see what they say. Test the driver itself if you can. OR, swap drivers and see if you can recreate the problem. It's not impossible that you have an intermittent driver. This is the same troubleshooting you would do if it was a traditional passive speaker plus amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Test the driver itself if you can. OR, swap drivers and see if you can recreate the problem. It's not impossible that you have an intermittent driver. This is the same troubleshooting you would do if it was a traditional passive speaker plus amp. If it was just a passive cabinet and all the connections were good I would just order a replacement driver and be done with it. I checked all the connections on the driver and the lead wires that go to the cone, no matter what I did I can't get it to shut off....so unless it is something with the voice coil itself I would say the speaker is fine. I am having my dealer check a few things, I may just order a new amp module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 If it was just a passive cabinet and all the connections were good I would just order a replacement driver and be done with it. And the reason you can't do this with an active cabinet would be....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 And the reason you can't do this with an active cabinet would be....? Have you actually read my responses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Have you actually read my responses? Yes. Mostly I've seen a lot of whining that "active speakers stink" for a bunch of reasons that exist equally with passive systems. I blew a horn driver in a Yamaha powered cab a few years back. Ordered a new one and replaced it. Just like I would have if it had been a passive Club speaker. Voila! Might have even been the same damned driver for all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yes. Mostly I've seen a lot of whining that "active speakers stink" for a bunch of reasons that exist equally with passive systems. I blew a horn driver in a Yamaha powered cab a few years back. Ordered a new one and replaced it. Just like I would have if it had been a passive Club speaker. Voila! Might have even been the same damned driver for all I know. So then you read what I wrote in post #205 that I may just order a new amp module?If my whining upsets you, then don't read my postings and don't comment on my topic....pretty simple.I said right in my very first post that this was my rant.....yes, I have calmed down some, still very dissapointed in the failure rate of MY active cabinets no matter what the manufatures statistics( that they dont want to show) may say.5- cabs, 2-failures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 I said right in my very first post that this was my rant.....yes, I have calmed down some, . Sure. Like in post #188 where you're saying you now hate actives even MORE because you're out of warranty. As if the fact that it's active has anything to do with that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Sure. Like in post #188 where you're saying you now hate actives even MORE because you're out of warranty. As if the fact that it's active has anything to do with that..... Go away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Check the driver with a 9 volt battery. That way you can verify the driver and check that the polarity is correct. Quick and simple test to rule out driver issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Go away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Check the driver with a 9 volt battery. That way you can verify the driver and check that the polarity is correct. Quick and simple test to rule out driver issues. The driver is fine, it works.Look through the posts, I even have pictures...The cabinet works, it stops putting out audio at random, but still passes a signal through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 ...yes, I have calmed down some, still very dissapointed in the failure rate of MY active cabinets no matter what the manufatures statistics( that they dont want to show) may say.5- cabs, 2-failures.... Sometimes it just rolls out that way. Several years ago, I bought a pickup truck, knowing that it needed a new engine. I bought a rebuilt one from a nationally known and respected rebuilder, and had it installed at a local garage. Over the course of the following year, that truck had five different engines installed in three different states before I finally gave up on it. Every single time, the remanufacturer paid 100% of the bill, including a rental truck on one occasion that my truck just couldn't be out of service. Neither I nor they could believe the incredible string of coincidental bad luck that I had with that truck, but every single time, the inspection and analysis came down to fault on their end. It was so bad that the phone receptionists would recognize my voice, and automatically transfer me to my customer service rep. And yet I still believe to this day that that incredible string of bad luck does not reflect on their normal quality levels, simply because they couldn't possibly survive as a company if that were true. Sometimes it just rolls out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 I am having my dealer check a few things, I may just order a new amp module. I wouldn't until you can be sure that's the problem. I would place the odds at 75% amp module, 25% intermittent within the speaker's soft parts. The best way to troubleshoot is to swap the drivers and verify where the the failure occurs first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 You would still have to troubleshoot to be sure it was the driver. The process is the same. Otherwise you think it's the driver, order the driver and find out later on that the problem continues to happen. I would absolutely consider an intermittent within t he voicecoil or ribbon leadouts. Probably just as likely as anything else.I wouldn't until you can be sure that's the problem. I would place the odds at 75% amp module, 25% intermittent within the speaker's soft parts. The best way to troubleshoot is to swap the drivers and verify where the the failure occurs first. I can swap drivers and let them play, the problem is that I had the *bad* speaker playing for 12hrs yesterday and nothing happened..it worked fine.But seeing how I need to change my truck over and put my other rig in the other 801P will be in my basement so it won't hurt to swap them out and see if anything happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Use them on a gig or two or 20 until you do get a failure THEN you know at least which component is bad. Are you positive that the IEC power plug was fully seated into the socket? This is one of the biggest issues I see regularly, not just on our product but on QSC amps as well. If it fits tight, it's easy to overlook seating the connector fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Use them on a gig or two or 20 until you do get a failure THEN you know at least which component is bad.Are you positive that the IEC power plug was fully seated into the socket? This is one of the biggest issues I see regularly, not just on our product but on QSC amps as well. If it fits tight, it's easy to overlook seating the connector fully. The QSC socket sucks! I have the cables on my PLX's cable tied down so they don't fall out.But the ones on my 801P's are tight, I was shaking, dropping and doing just about everything imaginable to the sub the other day and I couldn't get that thing to be silent for a second..So my guess is the IEC socket is fine.I don't really want to use them on a show until I resolve the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Vinny, there are 5 posts in this thread (91,92,97,98 and 144) and maybe one or two I've missed that bring up the point of cold solder joints. In post 126 you mention that the first time this sub had the problem manifest itself that you could whisper louder than the output of the sub. Has the amp shut off totally during any of the cut outs? If the amp has remained powered up (and the only way I'd be able to tell at a show is if the pwr light remained lit) then maybe it's a cold solder joint that only raises it's ugly head at operating volume/vibration from the cab, stage, mid-highs and the room. I'm no engineer, it's just my .02 based on all of the posts in the thread and my own experience with intermittent cold solder joints. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Vinny, there are 5 posts in this thread (91,92,97,98 and 144) and maybe one or two I've missed that bring up the point of cold solder joints. In post 126 you mention that the first time this sub had the problem manifest itself that you could whisper louder than the output of the sub. Has the amp shut off totally during any of the cut outs? If the amp has remained powered up (and the only way I'd be able to tell at a show is if the pwr light remained lit) then maybe it's a cold solder joint that only raises it's ugly head at operating volume/vibration from the cab, stage, mid-highs and the room. I'm no engineer, it's just my .02 based on all of the posts in the thread and my own experience with intermittent cold solder joints.Dave It's almost as possible that it's a hairline fracture within the voice coil that opens up as it gets hot. It can still make some sound where not completely open because of unintentional magnetic and capacitive coupling depending on the type of voice coil and where the fracture is located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 It's almost as possible that it's a hairline fracture within the voice coil that opens up as it gets hot. It can still make some sound where not completely open because of unintentional magnetic and capacitive coupling depending on the type of voice coil and where the fracture is located. But in my situation when this issue started it was cutting out at barely a speaking volume, so I don't think heat would have anything to do with it.It also has stayed powered on, as witnessed by me, it has never lost power. I am sure it is a cold solder joint, but seeing how I have some time and a whole nuther system I will experiment a little more with the two cabs that I have.I was thinking it may actually be easier to swap the amp sections out then the drivers, the grills on the 801P are a PIA to take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Swapping out the amp sections is just as good.A hairline fracture on the VC may act the way you are describing, there will be some fusing ofthe materials going on and if it's a 2 layer VC a crack on an inner winding will depend on the dimensional stability of the outside winding as to intermittents. Same goes for an inside-outside wound coil. What I am saying, after 30+ years of troubleshooting this stuff every day and analyzing warranty failures is never to assume anything is as simple as it seems. That's when you get bit in the ass, trust me, we have all learned this the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Swapping out the amp sections is just as good. A hairline fracture on the VC may act the way you are describing, there will be some fusing ofthe materials going on and if it's a 2 layer VC a crack on an inner winding will depend on the dimensional stability of the outside winding as to intermittents. Same goes for an inside-outside wound coil. What I am saying, after 30+ years of troubleshooting this stuff every day and analyzing warranty failures is never to assume anything is as simple as it seems. That's when you get bit in the ass, trust me, we have all learned this the hard way. I hear ya, will swap out the amp modules and let them play and see which cab fails.I will be really pissed if both shut down!I have sometime to play around with them as I have the other system....it's just going to look really loud in some of the smaller rooms!And my dealer is also trying to work something out with his sales rep so we will see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftcoast123 Posted June 15, 2012 Members Share Posted June 15, 2012 Swapping out the amp sections is just as good. A hairline fracture on the VC may act the way you are describing, there will be some fusing ofthe materials going on and if it's a 2 layer VC a crack on an inner winding will depend on the dimensional stability of the outside winding as to intermittents. Same goes for an inside-outside wound coil. What I am saying, after 30+ years of troubleshooting this stuff every day and analyzing warranty failures is never to assume anything is as simple as it seems. That's when you get bit in the ass, trust me, we have all learned this the hard way. Do you think that Vinny can replicate the issue in his basement or should he be testing these in the field at operating volume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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